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MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

To those who believe babies go to hell

How would you council this young mother? She is 5 months pregnant and excitedly awaiting the arrival of her baby girl. She hopes and dreams of the day when she will hold this little precious life in her arms. She feels her kick and hic up, she feels ever turn and every stretch the baby makes. There is a connection and a bond that has already formed and with out even knowing this little person she has already fallen deeply in love with her. Then one morning the unthinkable happens, she begins to bleed. She frantically calls the doctor and begins praying while waiting for him to pick up the phone. The doctor tells her to go to the hospital at once so she does, all the while praying silent prayers for her baby daughter. Hours later she lays in a recovery room, her heart is broken, her baby girl died in the womb, after a painful procedure the baby is delivered and taken away. This mother she searches to understand, she prays and asks why but no answers come. Her arms ache for her unborn child and she wishes for nothing more then to hold close. She begins to wonder did she do something wrong, was she some how to blame for the death of her little baby girl? Seeing an opportunity the enemy taunts her, he laughs at her, he accuses her day and night until one day she can bare the guilt and sorrow no longer so she cries out to the Lord?

My question is to some of you, if God sends some babies to hell how are you going to council this young mother, how are you going to share with her that her heavenly Father just may have sent her little baby girl to hell? Knowing that this little girl never reached an age to understand, to neither accept or reject Jesus how do you tell her that God chooses to send some babies to hell.

God Bless
maryjane

 2010/2/28 13:11Profile
Ceri
Member



Joined: 2008/10/17
Posts: 113
Notts. England.

 Re:

I really sense the claws are out in this thread - some of the responses are so cold and heartless and it really grieves me.

My heart goes out to those who have lost children, a lady in our church lost twin girls before birth and a six week old daughter, yet she has a smile to melt everyone's heart and a huge heart of love! and to top it all works as a midwife!

Come on folks - get some compassion here.

In some of these responses there are people who are hurting and throwing themselves on the loving heavenly father that God is, yet some of you are trampling over hearts with hob nail boots of self righteous indignation.

We have a God with a heart of a loving father, who desires that none should perish, a God full of tender mercy and compassion - which some Christians could do with a dose of!

It seems that God may forgive women who turn to Him who have done this act - for whatever reason - but then have to face the wrath of man who can't forgive.

Babies have no understanding and are totally dependant - In Sodom & Gomorrah God was judging on men and women at an age of understanding as to who lived a righteous Godly life - and there wasn't any!
You cannot hold babies accountable for the state of your town or nation - get real here!!

Some of you on this thread are so dogmatic and legalistic that I know you have never felt the pain of the loss of a child, otherwise you wouldn't be condemning everyone else's children to hell - but rather you would also be throwing all your faith in a loving heavenly father who comforts those who grieve, and in whose hands we place our children.

To 'Iwantanguish' I would say - you named yourself 'Iwant anguish' It seems now that God has answered you!
Now, how are you going to deal with this anguish?

To be honest with you, you are going about it the wrong way - you say that your mother doesn't even know that you are aware of this situation in her past, and yet you have stood as judge and jury in her case and condemned her - also exposed her shame to all - before even giving her a chance to defend herself and share with you!
How would she feel if she saw your hard-hearted comments in this thread?

You say you are a virgin - so how can you judge your mother and the circumstances she felt herself to be in that brought about the decision she made.

Please have some compassion - honour your mother - at least you still have one! Show her love and respect, God still loves her - and don't forget we are also judged on how we treat our parents!

Please pray that the Lord will present to you the opportunity for you both to share together - and when she does share - listen!
God gave us two ears but only one mouth - give your mother a chance!


_________________
Ceri Elaine

 2010/2/28 13:19Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Thank You Ceri so much for posting I agree with what you shared here.

God Bless
mj

 2010/2/28 13:22Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

IWantAnguish
you wrote:

Quote:
I have not confronted my mother on the topic yet... she does not know that I know... I want to exercise prudence in anything that would further separate my family from one another... thus I am wrestling with this issue by myself.


_______________________________________________________

I agree with what Ceri shared with you. Give your mother a chance to talk with you about this. You have not even asked her about this. Being a teenager and discovering your pregnant can be a very frightening time. Unless you are in that situation you have no idea how difficult it can be. Guys can and often do just walk away but for the girl its different. Its actually happening to you and with out support many young girls make selfish, stupid decisions that they end up regretting later. For some who choose to abort their babies, they struggle with shame and guilt for years and years to come. Perhaps the Lord has allowed you to discover this truth concerning your mother so that you might go and share with your her the love and forgiveness that is found in Christ Jesus if she repents and surrenders her life unto the Lord. Perhaps it is a door that He is opening to you with your mom? Please pm Ginnyrose if you have questions or need advice, she is a dear sister on this forum who has fifteen years experience working with crisis pregnancy, you do not have to wrestle with this alone.

Abortion is a wicked and destructive sin, but even this sin is no more or less vile to the Lord then holding bitterness or unforgiveness is. Something to consider?

____________________________________________________

you wrote:
Quote:
All of my high-school friends are like xerox copies out of the copy machine of the world. They all watch the same tv shows, listen to the same type of music, dress in the same way, think the same way... How many of them chose to turn into a copy of one another? Did they actively think, "I want to be like this," and then work towards that point?


____________________________________________________________

Actually yes they do choose to actively live as Lord of their own lives. I have dealt with many young people, teens and young adults alike and they do choose to live in selfish sinful rebellion to God. There are different reasons of course for some its because of peer pressure or just a desire to fit in, for others they believe they know better then anyone including God, for others they just love their sin.
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You wrote:
Quote:
As I spend time with an unsaved friend, I see more and more his helplessness to come to know God. He has no desire to know God, has no need for God, hates God and despises His word. His mother often tells him to read his Bible and pray, but he rails against her and tells her to leave him alone.


_____________________________________________________

sadly your friend has made his decisions, at this time in his life he is choosing to reject Christ. I know this is difficult because you care for your friend but he is old enough to understand the gospel and he as chosen to reject Jesus. Pray for your friend and share Jesus with him.
_____________________________________________________

God Bless
mj

 2010/2/28 13:50Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Quote:
Not all who are innocent are righteous. You have to be morally accountable to be righteous.

Therein lies your problem.

What do you disagree with that I said? This is the relationship of innocence and righteousness, by definition.

Quote:
You have to be washed in the blood to be righteous.

The path to righteousness is not through UNrighteousness. The path to holiness is not through sin. You only need to be washed if you have defiled yourself.

In the parable of the lost sheep, did the shepherd have to to save the ninety-nine? Were they not his flock?

Or what about the brother of the prodigal son? Did he have to rebel like his brother in order to have everything that was his father's? No, his father was always willing to share all that he had with him.

Quote:
You have to be righteous to enter heaven. Those considered innocent do not always enter heaven.

Why do continue to accuse God of such unjust judgment? The bible says "lean not on your own understanding".

Quote:
It is your definition of innocent that is at stake here, since all die, who exactly can be innocent?

Huh? You think physically dying means we are guilty? Then you must think that Enoch was sinless because he never died? And you must think that the Lord was not because he physically died? Physical death does not prove guilt at all.

Quote:
Because all die for the cause of their own sin, the innocence referred to in the Bible, is being innocent of something the Bible deems worthy of early/immediate death. For instance, in our day we look at a drunk driver killing a pedestrian as killing an innocent. Why? Because they were killed for a reason other than something that God’s word says is deserving of death. Yet the pedestrian still dies, why? Because they are still guilty before God for their sin. What is their sin? They were born opposed to God, which required a second birth of their spirit for eternity, yet even if that has already happened the body still had to die because it was unfit in its present condition to live for eternity. Whether saved or unsaved, was the pedestrian guilty before God? Yes. Was he guilty before man? No. Therefore he is considered innocent.

No. No one is born opposed to God. No one is unborn opposed to God either. This is more 'total depravity' and 'original sin' nonsense. This messed up theology is making you tell people that their dead babies might go to hell. You need to get a grip and some sound christian doctrine.

Quote:
Now, whether innocent or not, if he is saved, he is considered righteous by the blood of the Lamb, but if he is lost, he is considered unrighteous.

Imputed righteousness has to do with the forgiveness of past sins only. It doesn't change anyone's present or future moral character. It doesn't even change their past moral character. In fact, one who is imputed righteousness (forgiveness of past sins) still deserves to go to hell for their sins. They simply will not get what they deserve. That is mercy. It's not that God lies and pretends you never sinned in the past.

The innocent have no need of "imputed" righteousness. It is up to God whether infants will mature in the next life and have a chance at righteousness like the rest of us.

Quote:
Now suppose the drunk driver dies in the crash as well. Was he considered an innocent? No. Why? It is simply a fitting woe come upon him for his actions Isa (5:11, 22). Was he guilty before God? Yes. Was he guilty before man? Yes. Therefore he is NOT considered innocent.

Innocent is innocent. There's no such difference.

Quote:
Is an unborn baby guilty before God? Yes.

Repent. You should be ashamed to say this.

Quote:
Why? Because he was conceived in sin.

Then it's not his fault and he is not guilty. Psalm 51 doesn't teach what you believe.

Quote:
He was conceived opposed to God requiring a work of God on his heart in the application of the blood of Christ to bring him to Himself. Can God do that work in the womb? Yes. The question at hand really is, does He always do that work in the womb? The answer has to be no, for if it was yes, neither the judgment of Sodom, nor the judgment of the flood could have taken place.

You've been hit with the lie that God is not always loving. The infection has spread all over the place in your thoughts on this subject. You've digested the foolishness of "learned theologians" and probably think what you are saying makes sense when in fact you have to ignore how little sense it makes at all.

 2010/2/28 14:44
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

benjoseph wrote:

Quote:
No. No one is born opposed to God. No one is unborn opposed to God either. This is more 'total depravity' and 'original sin' nonsense.


____________________________________________________


I totally disagree with what you wrote here. While I know that all are born with sin nature and this is Biblical truth, I also know that God cares for unborn babies and small children. Not all those who believe and know that there is sin nature and that all fall short the glory of God believe that unborn babies go to hell.

Aready mind wrote way back at the beginning of the thread: "The secret things belong to the Lord brother."

I think there is much wisdom in this statement and I trust and have faith in the Lord in this.

mj

 2010/2/28 15:57Profile









 Re:


As I said before MJ, it is left with this, "The Lord knoweth them that are His" and "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Some who die in the womb may be counted righteous in Christ, and as in the case of Sodom and Noah's generation, some may not be, but the judgment belongs to the Lord.

No matter how much emotion or human reasoning you try to put forth, to say any more with regards to aborted babies is injecting into scripture that which is not there.

 2010/2/28 16:15
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Old Joe

Its clear there is no reason to carry on this conversation with you. You being a man can never understand and I will leave it at that.

For any other women who have suffered the heartache and loss of a miscarried child I will be praying for you.

God Bless
Mary Jane


 2010/2/28 16:32Profile









 Re:

I think the answer to this is pretty clear, no aborted babies will not go to hell and if their is an age of accountability which i think their is then God does not send kids who don't know better either. What that age is i don't know. Are they born sinners yes but with little children as with people born with mentally ill or retarded I do not think the lord imputes them that sin, but I don't have too much scripture to back that up besides where Jesus says let the little children come unto me because such is the kingdom of heaven. How long does it take for a young kid to learn how to be selfish, they are not taught it they are born being selfish. We are born sinners and we have scripture to prove it where David says in my mothers womb i was found with iniquity, that is the Bible's teaching on it. Their are many things we don't know about in scripture that remains a mystery but aborted babies did not even come out of the womb and in doing so never reached the age of accountability to reject God, though i believe all men reject God until they are born again.

 2010/2/28 16:58









 Re:

Maryjane writes.........

"For any other women who have suffered the heartache and loss of a miscarried child I will be praying for you."

They have my prayers too. Rest assured, there are no Scriptures, not a single one, that condemns these unborn children to hell, only some cold theological conculsions that are more important to some men that Scripture, the nature and the character of God and the attributes of a God that forever is beyond our understanding. If it is without explanation in the council of God's Word, then leave it alone and fall back on the character, the unchangeable nature of the Living God.It is in these arms that we truly find justice and mercy entwined together in the outstretched arms of our Savior on the bloody battlefield of Calvary's cross.............Frank

 2010/2/28 17:05





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