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Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

It is very easy to get personal in forums like this, judging the movitations of men's hearts, carrying assumption, and making statements based on our own experiences rather than the Scriptures.

My encouragement is that when we dialogue let us reason together from the Scriptures. Lets make the 'it is written' (in it's rightful context of course) the final say on these matters.

 2009/12/18 8:03Profile
Aussiedler
Member



Joined: 2005/2/14
Posts: 109
GERMANY

 Re:

Quote:
I'm all for the House Church Movement, but their faith in a Church Model to restore the glory of the Apostolic Age reminds me of the poor old Plymouth Brethren. The Brethren Movement began in the 19th Century when four Irishmen noticed that there was no biblical basis for having a Clergy and agreed that Clergymen were largely responsible for all the disunity, error and worldliness in the church, so they organized a fellowship "run strictly along New Testament lines," with no ordained ministers. They were confident that this Church Model would end sectarian strife and provide a basis of unity for all believers. By the 20th Century, the Brethren had schismed into 48 warring factions. A whole cascade of divisions and subdivisions resulted from increasingly inane Baptism controversies: "household" or "believer's baptism;" indoors or outdoors; in running water or still; one dip or three; forward or backward. One faction, the River Brethren, added to river baptism the ordinance of foot-washing. But then a controversy arose: should one Brother wash and another dry, or should both functions be performed by the same Brother? They divided into the One-Mode and Two-Mode River Brethren. The HC movement is pretty much the same way. Their pursuit of ecclesiastical perfection leads to constant bickering over every minutia of doctrine and practice. (There are allegedly exceptions, but I haven't found any, and I've been looking for a long time.) I recently heard an irate clergymen denouncing the HC movement for "meeting in living rooms and playing church!" Yeah, fighting, schisming, competing for converts, slandering each other - they're playing church all right! The HC has the potential to be the basis for the next great move of God because of the absence of revival-killing clergymen. But first we have to get Christ-centered instead of Church Model-centered.



thats a very good statement. It is amazing how deceived we can be, that we after all this lessons from church history still put our faith in outward things like "church models" etc. It is all about the heart, wether you meet in a churchbuilding or in a house.

 2009/12/18 8:26Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1530
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

wayneman wrote:

The HC has the potential to be the basis for the next great move of God because of the absence of revival-killing clergymen.



The next Great Move of God does not start in the House Church Movement....


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/12/18 13:21Profile
Leo_Grace
Member



Joined: 2009/6/14
Posts: 703


 Re:

Matt,

Quote:
I have done all these mistakes in the past, and I am zealous to see these tricks of the devil stopped in the church. I wouldn't leave my church because I new God called me there, but I didn't agree on everything the pastor taught, so I made my life and everybody else's hell until I realized I was going to have to change. I won't get into all the change right now, its too long ;)


I understand you now. Thanks for sharing. :-)

 2009/12/18 13:26Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Thoughts on Simple/House Church Movement

To all,

The one problem I have with regular church is I can't find a church that actually practices what they preach!! One that actually takes the gospel outside of their four walls to a lost and dying community ON A REGULAR BASIS. I've noticed that some do venture out at Christmas or Thanksgiving but that's it, it's not a ministry in the church. They don't take care of the widows and orphans either (Oh, they might help a widow once but God forbid they take her on like John took on Jesus's mother).

[b]My question about home churches is[/b] and I don't even mean to be sarcastic because I don't even go to a home church let alone a regular one; but how do home churches, the one's who are so close to Jesus it's scary (grin), how do they take Jesus out of their living rooms to a lost and dying community ON A REGULAR BASIS? How do they care for the widows and orphans?

Are there any?

If there aren't any, in my humble opinion and it's just mine but they are no better than the IC. Like I said, I don't attend any so I do not have a dog in this fight just an honest question about them.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/12/18 13:29Profile









 Re: Thoughts on Simple/House Church Movement

Quote:
just an honest question about them

Hi Lysa,

The house churches with which I've been associated, did not have any conversation during their meetings, apart from announcements and clarifications about them) usually at the end, or just before the children went out. The rest of the time, people focused on the Lord, on God, in worship, prayer, the operation of the gifts of the Spirit and the exposition of the written word. It was very serious. Every individual was expected to engage with God all the time every day, and meeting together was supposed to give folk an opportunity to share their bread.

With regard to your question, there was usually a large house at the centre of the operation, or, members of that housechurch community could, would, did, take in some people sometimes, to their own homes. Now, there are many questions around this topic, because we are not Israel, with general, culturally inculcated hospitality traditions. Also, on Sundays, there was a hospitality rota, so strangers could be fed.

Lastly, the general principle was employed that if [u]you[/u] see a need [u]you[/u] have an obligation to fix it, or to connect the needy person if they are willing, to someone who can help better than yourself.

James 2:16

In other words, it's down to the individual conscience, means and obedience.

 2009/12/18 13:44
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Lysa wrote:

Quote:

To all,

The one problem I have with regular church is I can't find a church that actually practices what they preach!! One that actually takes the gospel outside of their four walls to a lost and dying community ON A REGULAR BASIS. I've noticed that some do venture out at Christmas or Thanksgiving but that's it, it's not a ministry in the church. They don't take care of the widows and orphans either (Oh, they might help a widow once but God forbid they take her on like John took on Jesus's mother).

[b]My question about home churches is[/b] and I don't even mean to be sarcastic because I don't even go to a home church let alone a regular one; but how do home churches, the one's who are so close to Jesus it's scary (grin), how do they take Jesus out of their living rooms to a lost and dying community ON A REGULAR BASIS? How do they care for the widows and orphans?

Are there any?

If there aren't any, in my humble opinion and it's just mine but they are no better than the IC. Like I said, I don't attend any so I do not have a dog in this fight just an honest question about them.




Here is my example.

1. When we are together on Sunday's for fellowship, the following applies:

There is no paid position or "pastor" in the church. All who "work" in the worship service volunteer. All money donated goes to orphans/widows or those in need in the general local mission field

Part of the money collected is used for the local body needs, ministry and basic operations costs (lights, rent, etc..). The rest is given to orphanages in Mexico and Romania, VoM, local area missions. Local area missions can range from buying folks used cars that have no transportation, to giving money to those who have lost their jobs, homes, etc...

All money is given away. Nothing is saved. The Lord provides.


2. When we get together for Home Church the following applies.

Most House Church leaders/facilitators will find uot what the needs of those who attend the HC are. Money, time and love is poured into these folks ona more personal and intimate level. Some of the HC's are lead to give to specific "charities". Others are lead to give more outreach in the local community.

Examples of what is happening right now at some of the different HC's that are part of our fellowship...

One HC took all of its members a month ago to NY to Times Square Church to see/hear Brother Ravenhill speak.

Another one has started a Wednesday night Youth group for 16yrs old to collage aged young adults. It is run by young men that have gone through a year long leadership training hosted by HC leaders and elders. The main purpose of this is to equip High School and collage aged young adults to witness Christ into the schools and peers.

Another HC is very involved with VoM and assisting the persecuted church around the world. They feel lead to give each week into a fund that they send out to VoM.

Another HC is heavily into street ministry/witnessing. Lately, they have been witnessing and giving to the homeless in the area. A true harvest field.

Another HC is into giving to those in need through the mobile home communities throughout a 100 mile radius. They have been giving donated bread from a bagel shop to different people in need throughout these communities. Many, many people in these communities have been blessed by this and it has opened the door to witnessing the Lord.

There is so much more...


Yes, there are many who try to live as Christ commanded. Hopefully my small examples have helped brighten your spirit. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/12/18 14:36Profile
MattChenier
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

Quote:


The one problem I have with regular church is I can't find a church that actually practices what they preach!! One that actually takes the gospel outside of their four walls to a lost and dying community ON A REGULAR BASIS.



Lysa, It sounds like the local body of Christ in your area badly needs your help. It sounds like they are not focused on evangelism like you are. It would be the will of God for you to aid your brothers and sisters in prayer and patient encouragement until they see the will of God too.

It would be foolish of us to consider sharing the gospel with the wicked enemies of God when our own brothers and sisters are in the same jeopardy of hell-fire. Can these wounded family members count on you to help them? Surely casting stones of hypocrisy won't move them in the right direction. You must feel so blessed that God has granted you a like of perfect adherence to your convictions. You should consider helping others who are less fortunate.

"Do good to all men, especially those of the household of faith."


_________________
Matt Chenier

 2009/12/18 15:08Profile
MattChenier
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

Miccah,

It sounds like your church is heading the right direction. I am excited for you. What a blessing to have a local body of believers that you can be proud of. This makes evangelism so much easier. I am truly envious of such a wonderful body.

I just don't see what the difference is between your church and my church. Other than your church meets in a house and mine doesn't. We do all those things you mentioned, except that we pay our pastor's bills so that he can "give himself fully to the word and to prayer" Which he does. I think it is wonderful that nobody "lives of the gospel" in your church, but this is not unique only to house churches. I know many denominational churches that do this.

I am not at all against house churches, because there is no difference between a house church and a church that meets in a stadium. Is God scared of large crowds?

Again, God bless your church, I am mostly excited that your so confident and encouraged by the works your church shows. I hate going to church when I have no expectation of blessing (not that its always the churches fault).


_________________
Matt Chenier

 2009/12/18 15:17Profile
DBen
Member



Joined: 2008/10/23
Posts: 60
Western NY, USA

 Re:

Quote:
I wouldn't leave my church because I new God called me there, but I didn't agree on everything the pastor taught, so I made my life and everybody else's hell until I realized I was going to have to change. I won't get into all the change right now, its too long ;)



Matt,

I would certainly be interested in hearing about the changes if you would be inclined to share them. If you don't feel they are appropriate to the thread you could email me directly.

I realize that I am asking of your time so, please know I will consider all that you share and it will not be wasted.

Thanks!


_________________
David Benoit

 2009/12/18 15:23Profile





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