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Silo Member
Joined: 2009/11/11 Posts: 73
| What is "Permissible will"? | | I was reading Oswald Chambers this morning and was wondering what you thought about this statement.
"Gods perfect will is unchangeable...Gods permissive will is the testing He uses to reveal His true sons and daughters."
What happens if I chose his permissive will on purpose...what exactly does that mean for me? Is this a salvation issue? |
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2009/12/16 11:55 | Profile |
TaylorOtwell Member
Joined: 2006/6/19 Posts: 927 Arkansas
| Re: What is "Permissible will"? | | Can you post the quote's larger context? Maybe the whole section?
With care in Christ... _________________ Taylor Otwell
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2009/12/16 13:02 | Profile |
imnowhere Member
Joined: 2009/8/1 Posts: 69
| Re: What is "Permissible will"? | | The way I've heard it described (John Piper's sermon 'The 2 Wills of God' (?) is excellent) is that God's perfect will is the same as his 'decrees' in that they will come to pass. No one's 'will' will get in the way, nothing on earth will stop God's decrees from coming to pass (Is 46:10; Dan 4:35 etc). His passive will refers to his commandments that he puts forward that includes the law, but that he knows will be disobeyed or obeyed by man.
It is similar to a Father in his household who passively wills for his children to be obedient and on occasion decrees that they will do so, or decrees a scenario that he decides will happen, according to his ability and will to make it happen.
Piper's message explains this seeming dichotomy far better than I can here. |
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2009/12/16 13:27 | Profile |
Leo_Grace Member
Joined: 2009/6/14 Posts: 703
| Re: | | Quote:
It is similar to a Father in his household who passively wills for his children to be obedient and on occasion decrees that they will do so, or decrees a scenario that he decides will happen, according to his ability and will to make it happen.
I think you explained it very well here. |
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2009/12/16 13:32 | Profile |
Silo Member
Joined: 2009/11/11 Posts: 73
| Re: | | Always make a distinction between Gods perfect will and His permissive will, which He uses to accomplish His divine purpose for our lives. Gods perfect will is unchangeable. It is with His permissive will, or the various things that He allows into our lives, that we must wrestle before Him. It is our reaction to these things allowed by His permissive will that enables us to come to the point of seeing His perfect will for us. "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God . . ." ( Romans 8:28 ) to those who remain true to Gods perfect will His calling in Christ Jesus. Gods permissive will is the testing He uses to reveal His true sons and daughters. We should not be spineless and automatically say, "Yes, it is the Lords will." -Oswald Chambers |
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2009/12/16 13:47 | Profile |
TaylorOtwell Member
Joined: 2006/6/19 Posts: 927 Arkansas
| Re: | | Gotcha. I guess I'm used to hearing the words "decreetive" and "revealed" will of God. The decreetive will being what God has determined to happen throughout history, and the "revealed" will being his commandments, similar to the John Piper explanation.
This is actually an important distinction to make. The Scripture tells us to search out and obey the revealed will of God, but actually commands us to leave the decreetive will up to Him (Deut 29:29). This is important when determining "God's will for my life."
There is a extensive book on this topic titled "Decision Making and the Will of God".
With care in Christ... _________________ Taylor Otwell
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2009/12/16 14:01 | Profile |
| Re: | | The "Permissive Will" comes from this verse.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and [b]acceptable[/b], and perfect, will of God.
I heard this teaching from the false prophet Kenneth E. Hagin some years ago.
He was successful in changing the word "Acceptable" to mean "Permissible" in that many have accepted what he said including me.
I don't subscribe to that way of thinking anymore.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "Permissive Will". If anything, the closest would be to say that "My grace is sufficient for thee". |
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2009/12/16 16:02 | |
ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | Quote:
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "Permissive Will". If anything, the closest would be to say that "My grace is sufficient for thee".
I agree.
Seems to me that when we look at the WORD and work to categorize what would fall under God's permissive will, and what is his perfect/absolute will one will be be working to justify some disobedient act. Sounds to me like a dangerous mindset.
My thoughts..
ginnyrose _________________ Sandra Miller
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2009/12/16 20:25 | Profile |
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2009/12/16 22:55 | |
ginnyrose Member
Joined: 2004/7/7 Posts: 7534 Mississippi
| Re: | | After reading this question and pondering it a bit more I thought that perhaps I should come back and share more..
One can really get all tangled up when one works to discern whether this or that act is God's will or his permissive will.
Sin is sin. God allows it and its consequences to occur. This is a no-brainer to those of us who study the Scriptures. But was this act God's will? Is sin God's will? No. It must always be repented of.
However, suppose you get pregnant and are single, is this child's existence God's will? To determine this will lead you into a mine field fraught with danger and its consequence of extreme anger - by someone. I have had single, pregnant clients justify their sin because they got pregnant: this pregnancy is God's will! if it would not be they would not be pregnant!
How do you handle this?
What if you are the illegitimate child? what would you think? are you any less important to God?
Seems to me it is in our best interests - and others' - to simply leave some things be. We can't change it, we cannot change history. We are here and it is up to us to repent of [i]our[/i] sin and let God take care of other peoples'.
Blessings, ginnyrose _________________ Sandra Miller
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2009/12/17 9:10 | Profile |