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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Unconverted People allowed in Church?

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jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, our church has started many churches in that area and are seeing many muslims converted to faith in Jesus...what are you doing in this part of the world?jimp

 2009/11/22 1:28Profile









 Re: The Devil's Love.

I went into China in 2007, and got to Pastor a small church for a while.[ the leader left China on vacation..] It was unexpected but a golden opportunity to Preach Jesus.


I soon discovered that there was another Gospel being preached there, the one that we are talking about on this thread...the "Emerging Church" gospel, that God loves us and desires our best life now, receives us as we are [without repentance from dead works and faith toward God..] and is the positive force we should attain to for gaining meaningful purpose.


There was a doctrine in place that implied that it just took time to be saved. The previous "Pastor" of the fellowship told me that it took at least two years to become a Christian in China....Really.


There was no direct consciousness of the blood of Jesus, no apparent KNOWLEDGE of the resurrection, no admonition to depart from SIN...[for there was none...sin was not being positive and joyful] and no requirement to be born again. The fellowship studied an American Bible study,..[ pablum dribble..] and had bi-weekly meetings and assorted activities. Everyone was always excited and happy.


I put an end to that, as much as I could, and began to preach the Gospel...."You must be BORN AGAIN, and Jesus making a way by His Blood.


At a dinner one night..[ very, very sweet people, and I loved them...] they asked me ,"How many Christians are there in America?"...90%?....80%?...They were stone cold serious.


I answered maybe 2% or so. They were sure it was a mistranslation. They looked stunned....It can't be!...AMERICA!...because they equated Christianity with Prosperity and happiness, they saw life looking out from this shade...It's all GOOD!


If I loved them, I must speak the truth in Love. You will die in your sins unless you are truly born again...You will be lost, and if you live a life of sin, you will die forever regardless of what you believe.


In the end, several came to me, an admitted that indeed they were not Christians, and the true conviction of God was churning in them. The Word will not return to the Father void.


Yes, we are importing a gospel all around the Earth, but it is the Gospel of the great WHORE who sits on many waters. It is not Holy, for there is no Holy spirit, or Holy doctrine called the WORD to preach. It is deception, and corrupt, just like her mother. Without holiness no man shall SEE GOD!


To lead the unsaved to believe that God loves them unconditionally without the Truth of repentance and being born again, and living a holy life, is the same as murdering them, for you have made them trust in a lie. It is not the Gospel, but it is ANOTHER GOSPEL,,,one that murders, one that speaks of Love without holiness. It is the Devil's love that you will end up with.













 2009/11/22 9:30









 Re:



Kill the tares, end it all. YEAH!

 2009/11/22 11:17
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

Jimp, I would love to be able to be a part of a church body that would send missionaries into the most dangerous parts of the world... missionaries who would be tortured and ultimately killed for the sake of the gospel.

Please let me know if you know of any.


_________________
Sba

 2009/11/22 11:31Profile
IWantAnguish
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Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

Deepthinker / Lysa please interpret 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 for me.

I am extremely curious as to how you would interpret this passage of Scripture in light of Matthew 13:24-30.

You must contradict yourself in order to bring those 2 passages into cohesion according to your interpretation.


_________________
Sba

 2009/11/22 12:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:
You must contradict yourself in order to bring those 2 passages into cohesion according to your interpretation.

Both passages are not speaking of the same thing.

One is speaking about seeds that the enemy had planted into the field of wheat and the other is speaking about brethren (true believers) who were caught up in sin and the Church that was supposed to have judged this situation was not doing their job. They were to shun them so that they would fear and come back into fellowship. The Tares of Matthew 13 are people that blend in with everyone else. These people are like "angels of light", they appear good and acceptable, but they have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Jesus said to let them grow up together because they not only sprouted, but they look like the genuine article. However at the harvest, you'll know what kind of fruit they will produce, and that is nothing. At the end of the maturing, there is only one plant that will bear fruit and that is the good seed, weeds do not bear fruit, they just boast a lot of green and flowers. The Corinthian Church needed a lesson in dealing with their members, because Paul said in verse 13 "But them that are without God judgeth".

"Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." This last portion is basically telling them that if your not going to judge him, thrust him out of the Church so God can judge him, perhaps then he'll change his mind. Because when you come under God's judgment, it ain't pretty, you'll either run back to Him in full repentance or run further away.

The judgment that the Corinthian Church was to judge was not his particular sin, but to judge why he has not recognized that He is dead to sin and alive unto God. It's not a pointing finger ceremony of Christians who have fallen into sin, rather it's those that continue in sin and why?

It would seem that they might have done all the grilling but were at odds as to what to do with this fallen brother.

I hope that your not of the opinion that once your saved that if you fall into sin then you've lost your salvation, especially those sins that are notable, like adultery, fornication? This teaching is fluent in the fundamental Baptist realms.

 2009/11/22 13:01
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Anguish question

Quote:
IWantAnguish wrote:
I am thoroughly amazed that you have been given the gift of mind reading, and thus are able to ascertain my intent in this thread.


From your first post I thought you were talking about taking the church outside of its four walls to the people! Sooo, I ask .....

Are you or are you not trying to convince us that it would be best to kick the “nominal believers” out of the church??


_________________
Lisa

 2009/11/22 16:38Profile
IWantAnguish
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Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

I don't want to convince anybody of anything except what is correct according to Scripture.

I am personally trying to find the balance between the previous couple passages of Scripture found within Matthew, 1 Corinthians and Galatians.

If a person obviously is not bearing fruit in their lives, and is obviously lacking the fruit of the Spirit listed in the latter part of Galatians... Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control... should we continue to include them in the fellowship and allow themselves to blend in with the congregation, without confronting them with texts such as examining themselves, and bringing up the apparent sinful nature in their lives... since anybody cannot be walking in the flesh and walking in the Spirit simultaneously.

It is one or the other.

Should we allow those nominal believers the comfort of fellowship without bringing up the apparent lack of desire to conform their own lives to the will of God revealed in the Word of God?

Or should we speak forth the truth of Christ, when He said many will say Lord Lord and go to hell?


_________________
Sba

 2009/11/22 17:27Profile
IWantAnguish
Member



Joined: 2006/6/15
Posts: 343


 Re:

My reply to Deepthinker's post...

I do not believe salvation can be lost. But if a person falls into sin, and remains in sin for the rest of their lives unto death, I believe they were never regenerate to begin with, rather they were like the seeds that Christ speaks of, that falls upon shall soil, with a rock beneath.

They flourish for a moment, and yet they fall away, because they never dug deep with the Law of God, and were never completely regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit.

So... the question is... if a person is obviously a NOMINAL Christian (whatever that means) and they don't care about conforming their lives according to the will of God, should we allow them comfortable entry and fellowship within the 'church?'


_________________
Sba

 2009/11/22 17:32Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Love covers a multitude of sin

Quote:

I do not believe salvation can be lost. But if a person falls into sin, and remains in sin for the rest of their lives unto death, I believe they were never regenerate to begin with, rather they were like the seeds that Christ speaks of, that fall upon shall soil, with a rock beneath.

They flourish for a moment, and yet they fall away, because they never dug deep with the Law of God, and were never completely regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit.


How in the world can they “flourish for a moment” if they were NEVER connected to the root in the first place? You want it to be all or nothing with a Christians's life but it's like you said, "It is one or the other." Concerning salvation, a person is either saved forever or OSAS is not true. "It is one or the other, dude!"

Quote:

So... the question is... if a person is obviously a NOMINAL Christian (whatever that means) and they don't care about conforming their lives according to the will of God, should we allow them comfortable entry and fellowship within the 'church?'


Yes, we should. Because . . .
#1, according your strict standards, I would have been kicked out 10 – 15 years ago but I allowed the Lord to change me. People change.
#2, If we remembered that by OUR judgments we will be judged, I believe we’d show much more mercy.
#3, the Bible says that “love covers a multitude of sin.”

I will partake in no further discussion on this. I meant this nicely not so rudely as it sounded when I went back and read it!

God bless you!


_________________
Lisa

 2009/11/22 18:29Profile





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