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 Re: We must stand for the gospel, tolerant, but uncompromised.

Of course there must be a DEGREE of moral government, or the gospel is not the Gospel..

Just read the lists that say; Beware, for such SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM!

..fornicators, drunkards, the greedy, homosexuality etc. Holiness and immorality are in conflict.

Romans 8
1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This is not about that; nor is it allowing an unsaved person to express his or hers religious ideas about the Gospel. It IS NOT "HAIR SPLITTING" about grace and works, Calvinism vs: the world. It is about Doctrines, if believed, that will cause you to fall away from the Faith, if believed;; AND IF we name the name of BROTHER upon those who believe them, and promote them.

There must also be such a thing as Holy doctrine, for the church to be the Church. Part of that essential doctrine is that we all were born with a satanic nature, inherited by our first father, Adam. We were born SELFISH, or NATURAL men. This old nature is identified as "THE FLESH", as translated by King James.

This is a doctrine that says that there is no such thing as an "OLD NATURE", or 'ADAMIC NATURE", but that we are all born natural, and that by obeying a likeness of the LAW; IE "MORAL DIRECTION", we can avoid SIN.

There is no carnal mind,there is no Adam Nature, we are taught. Paul said, that those who live after the old Adamic nature CANNOT please God. Romans 8:7and 8.Its all about Christ! from first to last Christ Christ Christ.

"I wish i could shake you people and scream CHRIST!'hmmhmm

Christ without the Gospel means nothing at all; it's just another name; another jesus. Every christian cult hails the same Name, but there faith rests in lies, and that is why sound doctrine is essential, and perhaps the thing that Satan assails most.

Your faith rests in what you believe, and that rests in the truth , IF we are to be saved. This doctrine is not the truth, however you may wish it were. It will destory you, if followed. Are we to call those who teach it and believe it brothers? If they were, they are now deceived, and need to be delivered.

"A heretic, after the first and second admonition, REJECT, know such a one is subverted, and sins, being condemned of their own conscience. This is that.

 2009/11/8 17:36


If I may be permitted to speak boldly, it seems to me that there is no doctrine here on Sermonindex. This sounds alot like Ecunumenicalism to me. I do not question the motives of any, for I know the heart of no man, but from what I've learned from the Word of God, true love is not tolerance. "Love rejoices in the truth" (1 Cor 13:6).

As Mike Gendron said:

Let us be mindful of the words of A.W. Tozer, who wrote: "So skilled is error at imitating truth that the two are constantly being mistaken for each other. It is therefore critically important that the Christian take full advantage of every provision God has made to save him from delusion - prayer, faith, constant meditation of the Scriptures, obedience, humility and the illumination of the Holy Spirit" (That Incredible Christian).

We need to ask God for courage and boldness as we rely on the power of His Word. May we all become more like the apostles who were strong, bold, fearless, dogmatic, unaccommodating of error, courageous, intolerant of sin, inflexible concerning the Gospel, controversial, willing to die for the truth and fully devoted to Christ. We are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming (Eph. 4:14). During these times of great deception, the Body of Christ must respond with a theological, biblical worldview that defends the glory and honor of our Lord Jesus Christ. We must protect the purity of His Gospel for the sake of His elect.


The Apostle Paul was not tolerant of just any wave of doctrine about salvation, he was a man on fire with a passion for sound doctrine and love for Christ and His church, willing to suffer for the sake of God's truth, and stood boldly on it with no minced words no matter who opposed him. There are essentials to stand on even in the face of death, and Justification by Faith through the imputed righteousness of Christ (a matter of soteriology) is one of those essentials.

The Scriptures say that doctrine is important, so I will stick with the book of God. Let every man on earth call me intolerant, hateful, dogmatic, narrow-minded, etc. etc. but I believe the book of God because the love for the truth that Christ has put in my heart, and because of my love for the doctrines which are the underlying teachings in God's Word that my faith rests on along with the salvation of my soul. Pelagianism is heresy and denies the Gospel I know and preach and I will not, dare not, compromise and call it a mere difference of opinion.

Having charity, mercy and grace to different matters of opinion is one thing, but showing tolerance to and permitting doctrines of demons is a fellowship with Belial that I can't take part in.

The Word of God is full of exhorations to abide in sound DOCTRINE. Why, if doctrine is not important? Is the Diety of Christ the only thing in view in the following verses, or does the word DOCTRINE generally summarize all the clear truths which the Apostles taught? And so, if it is talking about the truth which our Lord's Ambassadors laid down as the foundation of the Church, what right do we have to kick around and remove stones from the base of it and throw them out because we don't think they're important? -Keep it up, and pretty soon you won't have anything standing. Oh, may we believe the Word of God, stand on the Word of God, and by God's grace, NEVER COMPROMISE NEVER COMPROMISE NEVER COMPROMISE.

[i]Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' [b]doctrine[/b] and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of [b]doctrine[/b] which was delivered you.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the [b]doctrine[/b] which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of [b]doctrine[/b], by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

1 Timothy 1:2-3 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord. 3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other [b]doctrine[/b].

1 Timothy 1:9-11 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound [b]doctrine[/b]; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good [b]doctrine[/b], whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to [b]doctrine[/b].

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the [b]doctrine[/b]; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and [b]doctrine[/b].

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the [b]doctrine[/b] which is according to godliness;

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my [b]doctrine[/b], manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for [b]doctrine[/b], for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and [b]doctrine[/b].

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound [b]doctrine[/b]; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound [b]doctrine[/b] both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound [b]doctrine[/b]

Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in [b]doctrine[/b] shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity[/i]

As J.C. Ryle said:

We corrupt the Word of God when we make defective statements of doctrine.

We do so when we add to the Bible the opinions of the Church, or of the Church Fathers, as if they were of equal authority. We do so when we take away from the Bible, for the sake of pleasing men; or, from a feeling of false liberality, keep back any statement which seems narrow, and harsh, or hard. We do so when we try to soften down anything that is taught about eternal punishment, or the reality of hell. We do so when we bring forward doctrines in their wrong proportions. We all have our favorite doctrines, and our minds are so constituted that it is hard to see one truth very clearly without forgetting that there are other truths equally important. We must not forget the exhortation of Paul, to minister "according to the proportion of faith." We do so when we exhibit an excessive anxiety to fence, and guard, and qualify such doctrines as justification by faith without the deeds of the law, for fear of the charge of antinomianism; or when we flinch from strong statements about holiness, for fear of being thought legal. We also do this when we shrink back from the use of Bible language in giving an account of doctrines. We are apt to keep back such expressions as "born again," "election," "adoption," "conversion," "assurance," and to use a roundabout phraseology, as if we were ashamed of plain Bible words. I cannot expand these statements because we are short of time. I am content with mentioning them and leave them to your private thought.


Liberalism says whatever people believe should be accepted. Phariseeism says that anyone who doesn't believe every single detail I believe about everything in Scripture is condemned. But the Word of God rebukes them both. May God save His people from both errors and give us discernment to tell the difference.

My heart is unloaded, and I think that this is the last post of mine on this thread. My questions have been answered. Peace to those who hold fast to the Word of life. Brethren, stand strong in the Word, be strong and let the Word of God abide in you, and may you get your head lopped off before you bow down to surf the waves of every wind of doctrine.

 2009/11/8 18:38


If I may be permitted to speak boldly, it seems to me that there is no doctrine here on Sermonindex

What is wrong with you people? This is Gregs site, granted to him by God. It's his ministry, if you don't like it, go and build your own website.

Paul West has told us that if anyone has a problem with the operations of this site that they are to go to Greg Gordon. Using this thread to splash your issues are not wise.

I too like Paul am finished with this thread. It's not healthy, it's not uplifting, it's wrong.

 2009/11/8 20:37

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


Thread closed.

Please do not create anymore "heretic" threads, and please refrain from naming and accusing other believers publically. If you have issues, contact the offender, myself or Greg Gordon privately.

Thank you.

Paul Frederick West

 2009/11/8 20:51Profile

Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797

 Re: Rick Warren and one religion

Could someone on this thread help me. I think in reading the link that began this thread (page 1, "Grace in the triad blogspot") I read a report, probably with links that [u]"Rich Warren had joined the board of directors of an international faith organization seeking the unity of ALL RELIGIONS".[/u]

I have tried to re-trace my steps but can not find it on that site. There were other references to his emergent bent, but it is the one to this ONE RELIGION, that I need. As I recall, the head of that movement is in Europe (northern Europe?), and the name is short like Faith United (?).

Thanks for any help on this. My fellowship is still recovering from the purpose driven church and fighting off emergent ideas that sound so good but are built on sand and not rock. I thought the readers of this thread, familiar with Warren my know where the reference is.

 2009/11/8 21:01Profile

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