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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Inbred Sin Is Not Removed By Conversion

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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1572
Scotland, UK



Logic wrote:

With out a pure heart, one can not be perfect and upright.

Murrcolr said:

So clearly there can be an area in your life that can still be un-purified yet still be declared by God "perfect and upright"

How so?

Come on Logic this is very basic stuff

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Justification and righteousness are predominantly legal terms in both the Old and New Testaments. Though it’s quite right to see righteousness, on occasions, as being a virtue, it’s usually evident that it’s to be understood in a legal setting. Justification means to get the decision in a court of law, to achieve ‘rightstanding’ in its eyes, to be declared ‘not guilty’ when all has been said and done and all the evidence carefully weighed.

Job was perfect and upright because he believed in God.

While it is true that the justified man will be deeply concerned with holy living, it is also true that justification is not simply another name for his holy life. It refers to his standing before God, to God’s acceptance of him.

Sanctification: The act of making holy; the state of being sanctified or made holy.

Theologically - The act of God's grace by which the affections of men are purified or alienated from sin and the world, and exalted to a supreme love of God. Also the state of being thus purified or sanctified." - Webster's Dictionary.

Justification delivers from guilt and condemnation---- Sanctification delivers from unholy tempers and abnormal appetites

Justification restores us to the favor of God which we had lost through our own disobedience--------- Sanctification restores us to holiness or the moral likeness of God, which we had lost through Adam's disobedience.

Job was perfect and upright but his heart was not pure, but God in his goodness did a deeper work and cleansed his heart that was why he declared “but know my eyes seeth thee” because his heart was cleansed by God.

murrcolr said:

Dualism---The bible tells us we are made up of Spirit, Soul and Body. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 with this verse alone Dualism is declared null and void. Our bodies are the Temple of God and contains three parts just like the temple that was in Jerusalem Holy of Holies, Holy Place and Outer Court.

It is null and void, but your still using Dualistic theology; claiming that there is a battle of good vs. evil with in man.

logic said:

So, you are contradicting yourself by having the "sin nature" theology and discounting Dualism.

No…….you think I am contradicting myself but all along through this thread you have totally misunderstood what I am putting across by thinking we are talking about evil in your flesh. So I am clear and it’s in black and white for you again. I am focusing on the soul, (heart) because Pro 4:23 keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

murrcolr said;

Paul describes Babes in Christ as carnal 1 Cor 3:1 he tells us that because you are carnal you are under sin

logic said:

Carnal Christian are not because they are yet babes in Christ, but the other way around. They are STILL babes because they are carnal.
Their carnality stunts their growth.

Carnality is a choice, not an "age of spiritual growth.

Sounds a bit like what came first the chicken or the egg but is carnality a choice?

Definition: - The state of being carnal; the indulgence of lust; grossness of mind.

Well the answer is no because you still have that carnal nature until you have been purified in the heart, sanctified and made holy and until you get the rid of the old man having a heart that’s cleansed you will be in the “state of being carnal”.

murrcolr said:

Roms 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Logic said

This is concerning a pre-salvation experience.

No it’s not so you are telling me that the unsaved delight in the law of God after the inward man, these chapters in Roms 6,7,8 have to do with sanctification through the baptism into Jesus Christ and his death so the old man is crucified with him.

The Pharisee’s (which Paul was once) you would think they would have loved the law in there inner being, but we find the opposite look at what Jesus says to them. Matt 5 7-8 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

That doesn’t sound like a heart that delights in the law of God does it. What the Pharisee's delighted in was the traditions of men.

Almost all proponents of these arguments defend their positions by explaining why the text does not really mean what it appears to mean, thereby granting that it doesn’t appear that Paul was speaking about his own struggle with sin after conversion.

Come on Logic go back to the time to the pre-salvation time in your life, did you delight in the law of God in your inward man. My own experience shows me that you fight and you fight real hard until God breaks through to your heart and softens it.

Colin Murray

 2009/10/31 20:33Profile

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