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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What doctrines are essential for salvation and which aren't?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Matthew 11:25-28 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Without the Son, no one can know the Father.
Without the Father no one can know the Son.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Ephesians 1:4-6 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

"Before the foundation", eternal.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

"from the foundation", now and earthly.

One with the Father and One with us.

In Christ who is all in all as the Father.

Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/10/10 11:59Profile
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 Re:

Jimmy I will think about it.

 2009/10/10 20:42Profile
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 Re:

Orthodox,

what are you Greek Orthodox or something?

I did not mean that the Anabaptist had succession in a strict sense. I just meant that the Holy Spirit gave them succession by anointing them. The remnant who is usually cast out like all the prophets of old.

As for the Paul thing well that is just a whole topic of succession and I dont think I want to get into it at length right now. That requires a thread all its own.

 2009/10/10 20:44Profile
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 Re:

Phil, I am not totally clear what you are saying?

 2009/10/10 20:45Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3433
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Waltern

Waltern,

You sent your post to me also in a pm, please stop. You do not need to repost to me privately; I read the threads in which I post. I'm not answering you because I do not care to.

This is not the first time I've asked you to stop reposting to me in a pm.

Thank you,


_________________
Lisa

 2009/10/10 20:59Profile









 Re: Essential Doctrine



To LoinGirder:

As Christian believers of our day, we have the Old Testament and the New Testament, the "Full Council of God's Word" in our hands when we pick up our Bibles. God will hold us more "accountable" than those who are living in Africa, who do not even have a complete Bible.


This is what Gregory Koukl of Stand to Reason has to say about the Doctrines essential for Salvation:

The Link:
[url=http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5230]The Doctrines Essential for Salvation[/url]


The six essential doctrines would be: 1) the Trinity; 2) the deity and humanity of Christ; 3) the bodily resurrection; 4) man's fallenness and guilt, 5) salvation by grace through faith by the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ; 6), and belief that Jesus is the Messiah.

[color=990000][b]And you have a seventh doctrine that strikes me as a functional necessity, that is the ultimate authority of Scripture without which none of the other truths can be affirmed or asserted with confidence. [/color][/b]


By the way, it's really important that people know these doctrines because many Christians are quite kind-hearted and they end up not being very careful about drawing distinctions between truth and falsity because they don't want to disagree. I understand that. But if you were really kind-hearted then you would be honest and straight-forward with people about the demands of the gospel on their lives. The demand of the gospel is that you believe particular things to be true. It's not just a matter of mere belief, as if these are just some incidental details of theology that you might happen to be mistaken about. And if you just happen to be mistaken, why should you go to hell because of that?

[b]You don't go to hell because you just happen to mistake a doctrine. You go to hell because you have broken God's law. It is very critical to understand that. God only judges guilty people. People get judged by God not because they mess up on their theology but because they are guilty. People who are guilty get condemned. That's it. There is a way to get around that but you've to know a couple of particular things that are true before you can take advantage of the forgiveness God offers. That's where the essential doctrines come in.[/b]



[color=990000][b]You've got to believe that the Bible is inspired. That is not essential doctrine, although I would consider the authority of Scripture is a functional necessity because without it none of the other truth could be affirmed or asserted with confidence. Once you get rid of the authority of Scripture, the other ones fall one by one like dominoes. I've added man's fallenness and culpability because it seems to be a necessary qualifier for the gospel, although most don't include that on other lists.[/color][/b]

I will tell you another essential doctrine that the Scripture makes very, very clear that I have never seen included on a list. You must believe that Jesus is the Messiah. If you repudiate such a notion, you cannot be saved. By the way, whenever the word "Christ" appears in the New Testament, that is simply the Greek translation of the Hebrew word meshiac. Christ is the Greek for Messiah. When the Bible says "Jesus the Christ" it means Jesus the Messiah. Whenever it says Jesus Christ--by the way, Christ isn't Jesus' last name, that's His title--it means Messiah. 1 John 2:22 says, "Who is the liar, but the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, the one who confesses the Son has the Father." That's pretty clear. 1 John 4:2 says, "By this you know the Spirit of God, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Messiah has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, and this is the spirit of antichrist." 2 John 7 says, "For many deceivers have gone out into the world. Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Messiah as coming in the flesh, this is the deceiver and the antichrist."

The Scripture has no kind words for people who repudiate the Messiahship of Christ. A very strong conclusion can be drawn from this. The New Testament teaches that Jews who repudiate Jesus as the Messiah do not ultimately have a love for the Father. That is not my opinion. That is the opinion of the Apostle John, and it is also the opinion of Jesus Christ. "You have rejected Me because the love of the Father is not in you." Those are strong words.

Someone could say, How can you say that about Jews? You don't know all the Jews. No, I don't. God does. This is not my opinion. To be honest with you, I don't personally like this particular teaching. If it were up to me, I would change it. But it's not up to me. It is not my opinion. I don't like it, but there it is. It is God's opinion. And if we are people who hold the Bible to be revelatory on the issue of salvation, then we cannot at the same time be people who acknowledge that nice people who are Jewish but reject Jesus as Messiah find their way into heaven. That is not in the Bible. If we say that, we are saying something that is contrary to the biblical teaching. The Bible makes it clear that an essential doctrine is a belief in Jesus as the Messiah.

The six essential doctrines would be: the Trinity, the deity and humanity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, man's fallenness and guilt, salvation by grace through faith by the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, and belief that Jesus is the Messiah. And you have a seventh doctrine that strikes me as a functional necessity, that is the ultimate authority of Scripture without which none of the other truths can be affirmed or asserted with confidence.

By the way, it's really important that people know these doctrines because many Christians are quite kind-hearted and they end up not being very careful about drawing distinctions between truth and falsity because they don't want to disagree. I understand that. But if you were really kind-hearted then you would be honest and straight-forward with people about the demands of the gospel on their lives. The demand of the gospel is that you believe particular things to be true. It's not just a matter of mere belief, as if these are just some incidental details of theology that you might happen to be mistaken about. And if you just happen to be mistaken, why should you go to hell because of that?

You don't go to hell because you just happen to mistake a doctrine. You go to hell because you have broken God's law. It is very critical to understand that. God only judges guilty people. [color=990000][b]People get judged by God not because they mess up on their theology but because they are guilty. People who are guilty get condemned. That's it. There is a way to get around that but you've got to know a couple of particular things that are true before you can take advantage of the forgiveness God offers. That's where the essential doctrines come in.[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

LoinGirder wrote:
Quote:

Lysa wrote:
A challenge:

What doctrine is required for salvation? Could it possibly be as simple as this...?

Then he said, And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your Kingdom." [b]"I tell you in solemn truth," replied Jesus, "that this very day you shall be with me in Paradise."[/b]
Luke 23.42-43

God bless,



What doctrine is required for salvation? All of them! If you believe only 99% of the GOD'S WORD, you are claiming to be 1% smarter than GOD and He will be forced to correct this misapprehension on JUDGMENT DAY by throwing you into HELL. You must believe that God created the universe 6000 years ago and that the devil created galaxies billions of light years away in order to trick us into believing that the universe is billions of years old. He also put geological strata and dinosaur bones in the earth for the same purpose. You must also believe that the sun is God Mal. 4:2 and that He and the moon orbit around the earth Jos 10:13. It is not enough to believe in Jesus; you must also believe in Fundamentalist Bible Science, or you will fry.

 2009/10/10 21:33









 Re:

Quote:
Walter wrote:

The six essential doctrines would be: 1) the Trinity; 2) the deity and humanity of Christ; 3) the bodily resurrection; 4) man's fallenness and guilt, 5) salvation by grace through faith by the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ; 6), and belief that Jesus is the Messiah.



Catholics believe all these things, too. So clearly this is not enough dogma to get you saved. Catholics go to hell, not because they are more guilty than evangelicals, but because their dogma is not evangelical.

 2009/10/10 23:11









 Re: Repent & Believe!



To LoinGirder:

The Christian is called to Repent and Believe the Gospel! (Mark 1:15)

LoinGirder, Have you ever thought that perhaps you are trying too hard to convince others that being born again is nothing special, a “been there”, “done that” experience that happened long ago?

[b]It is tragic that one billion people are being woefully deceived by the Catholic religion, which is no church or faith at all.[/b] Catholicism is a cult! Catholics are taught that they can live in sin, just so long as they make it right by following the procedures of the Catholic Church. [color=990000][b] There is NO genuine repentance of the heart in Catholicism, only outward religion (Matthew 15:8). Catholicism is a big smokescreen, which allows people to hide behind religion, instead of finding true Biblical repentance unto salvation. [/color][/b]

Members of the Catholic Church live like total heathens--indulging in drunkenness, gambling, fornication, et cetera--and think it's acceptable to God just so long as they confess to a priest, go to Mass, recite the Rosary to Mary, and observe the Seven Sacraments.Look at many members of the Mafia- where do they go to Church? Hell will be hot for those who trust the Catholic Church for their salvation, instead of Jesus Christ ALONE as the Word of God commands (John 14:6; 1st Timothy 2:5; Acts 4:10-12). Oh how blind are the hearts of men towards the truth of God's Word! Catholicism may offer religious ceremonialism to people; but they cannot offer anyone eternal life. The Blessed Virgin Mary is a BIG SCAM of the Devil, not taught anywhere in the Scriptures. Mary, Jesus' mother, did NOT remain a virgin; YET, Catholics twist the truth and lie, saying that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Why are people so dumb to believe the lies of Catholicism? Jesus tells us why in Mark 7:6-13... because people willingly reject God's Word to keep their own manmade traditions instead.

If you want to belong to a religion that allows you to live in sin, and tell you everything's ok after performing a few religious acts, then you'll love the Catholic prisonhouse of religion. If you want to look at porn, curse in God's name, talk dirty, lust, hate, get drunk, live like the Devil, and still be a respectable member of your church, then you'll love Catholicism! The Beast system is forming right in front of our face, under our very noses, and the average person is so blinded by love for sin that they can't see their hand in front of their face.

[color=990000][b]There is NO repentance in the Catholic Church, only religion and more religion. Biblical repentance should result in a changed life (2nd Corinthians 5:17), a Christlike life. Catholics steer clear of any mention of being "born-again," because to be born into God's Kingdom requires genuine REPENTANCE, which is a foreign concept to Catholics.[/color][/b]

[color=990000][b]Does God have a special type of judgment prepared for false teachers?--Teachers who twist the Scripture, who twist the Doctrine of the Bible?[/color][/b]

[b]In warning that "false teachers" will arise, leading many to follow their destructive ways,
Peter also spoke of their coming judgment...[/b]
a. "...bring on themselves swift destruction" - 2 Peter 2:1
b. "for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not
slumber." - 2 Peter 2:3


[b]To illustrate that the "false teachers" face certain condemnation,Peter gives three examples of the righteous judgment of God in the past..[/b]

a. The angels who sinned (Took place before the fall)- 2Peter 2:4
b. The ancient world (The Flood) - 2Peter 2:5
c. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (God turned them into ashes) - 2 Peter 2:6-9



Sincerely,

Walter



Quote:

LoinGirder wrote:
Quote:
Walter wrote:

The six essential doctrines would be: 1) the Trinity; 2) the deity and humanity of Christ; 3) the bodily resurrection; 4) man's fallenness and guilt, 5) salvation by grace through faith by the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ; 6), and belief that Jesus is the Messiah.



Catholics believe all these things, too. So clearly this is not enough dogma to get you saved. Catholics go to hell, not because they are more guilty than evangelicals, but because their dogma is not evangelical.

 2009/10/11 0:54









 Re:

Walter,

I share your admiration for the Catholic Church. But let's give credit where credit is due: The Catholic accretion of man-made dogmas makes it easier to get saved, whereas fundamentalist dogma makes it harder to get saved. For example, we have to crucify the carnal intellect, which recoils at the notion that God created the 13,000,000,000-year-old universe 6000 years ago. This is one of many things that the Bible does not require of us, but fundamentalism does. Catholics, on the other hand, are free to ignore the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, as long as they sprinkle water on babies and snap mackerals on Fridays. If you're going to bury the Gospel under a mountain of man-made dogmas and traditions, why not do it in a way that makes salvation easier and business more lucrative?

 2009/10/11 11:36
elharris
Member



Joined: 2009/8/10
Posts: 59


 Re:

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.



19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



20 [b]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:[/b] and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.



What doctrine is necessary for salvation?



[b]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:[/b]


I emphasized in "bold" that last part that they never mention or read to you. See you can form a whole false gospel around parts of scripture. All you have to do is mentions the baptism parts, make up what kind of baptism you want it to be, be it dunked, sprinkeled, or "spirit", not knowing there is ANOTHER kind of baptism. And by this means you can deceive people so they never truly get the REAL BAPTISM, which truly cleans. Namely learning to observe all the things that Jesus Christ taught and commanded.

Lot's of water dunked, sprinkeled and "spirit" taking in tongues people are going to go to hell, simply because they refused to "observe all those things Christ commanded."


What is it to be baptised?


[b]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:[/b]


That is what cleans you up from the inside out. It's the TRUTH and then walking in it, that makes you clean.



That pretty much covers EVERYTHING that Jesus taught. I don't see your essential doctrine list here. I don't see that some doctrines are not important here. I also have not seen one denomination doing this, not just the mother of those Eccumenical harlots, the Catholic Church.



If you are taught to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever Jesus commanded you then truly "believe". You then truly have the same "faith" they had in the first century. You then will be "saved". You then will do all the works of Jesus Christ and GREATER.



Let's look at all the other scripture from this time, after Jesus resurrection, and what all he said to them here.



Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING IS MISSING THE THE SO CALLED "GOSPEL" THE CHURCHES ARE TEACHING TODAY.


Could it be that they are NOT teaching people to OBSERVE ALL THINGS, WHATSOEVER HE COMMANDED? Yes that's it, they do not do that.



What else did Jesus command?


Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


(It must have been important for them to know that he had FLESH AND BONES, in his resurrected, eternal, immortal body. That he was a REAL person and not just a spirit.)



40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 [b] he took it, and did eat before them.[/b]

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 [b]then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.[/b]

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.



So to teach people to observe all things whatsoever he commanded, is to preach the gospel, is to preach repentance and remission of sin.


For only in believing what Jesus taught, and in repenting and confessing with him what he said, can one come to repentance. He gave the "standard", if you don't know what he taught, then you can't meet the standard and do what he said to do. Therefore you never come to repentance and walk as he walked. (Regardless of how much you quote and repeat that verse in 1 John.)


John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, [b]Follow me.[/b]


HOW is it that Peter would FOLLOW Jesus? He would to out and feed the sheep by ovserving and teaching others to observe (that is believe and DO), all things whatsoever Jesus had ALREADY taught them. That is how you follow Jesus. That is how you are "saved".



20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? [b]follow thou me.[/b]

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: [b]and we know that his testimony is true.[/b]



I can read the gospel of John, or any of the other gospels, which are the testimonys of the teachings of Jesus Christ. And I can learn to observe all things whatsoever Jesus commanded.



But I haven't heard much of this testimony from anyone on this board. There are a "few" here, that give this testimony, but most give church doctrines and dogmas and things they've read in theology. Or even worse "illuminations" they've received by devil spirits impersonating the holy spirit, that take you even further away from the real flesh and bone Christ. That shall return in the same flesh and bone.



The main thing about John's testimony is that it focuses primarily on what you would call the TRUE essentail doctrines of the Lord Jesus Christ.



What is the true essential doctrine (teachings: teaching them to OBSERVE ALL THINGS, whatsoever I have commanded you.)


If you haven't been doing this, I'd get busy. You can start in Matthew, go on to Mark, then Luke, and then John or whatever. The point is better get to knowing what Jesus taught and start following it. If you try and just follow bits of Paul's letters, let alone understand them, you'll just deceive yourself. Paul taught the gospels or what's written in them. THEN he wrote letter's of REPROOF AND CORRECTION, and that is primarily what the Church letters are. It is not a "speical" gosepel.



Most Christians, can read men's books and quote men till the cows come home. But cannot read, concentrate on or focus on more scripture than a partial verse. And if they do happen to copy and paiste, they understand little to nothing of what they have quoted, except for a partial verse about which they have a whole corrupted theology and understanding.


John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 [b]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[/b]


ARE "YOU" CLEAN?


Did you just read that part of the scirpture and think it automatically applied to you?


Jesus was not talking to "YOU".


Jesus was talking to men who had BEEN WITH HIM.


Jesus was talking to men who had heard and believed everything and MORE, that is written in what are called the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.


How much of that have "you" actually heard, UNDERSTOOD, believed, and ACTED upon.


HOW MUCH DO YOU "OBSERVE"?


What did THEIR LORD say to THEM?


[b]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.[/b]


Yeah, THEY were clean. YOU are most probably NOT!


I know CHRISTIANITY!


I know that few...few....few teach those in their churches to "observe all things, whatsoever Jesus Christ commanded".


OH, they are teaching something all right. But they are not teaching THAT.


Most of you can't and don't even quote or comprehend one teaching he gave.


Like for instance what we are looking at right now, in John 15:1 through the next 4 or 5 verses.


AFTER he tells THEM, that they are clean through the word he has spoken unto THEM, which most of you have no concept of, and think that's some sort of instantainous promise just because you might quote it all the time, while NEVER having learned or been taught to observe all the things he taught previous to this.


THEN he says:



4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Do you abide in him. I surely think, you think you do. And I surely know from his teachings, that you most probably DO NOT. Because I know the wickedness of those who have taught you, and filled your minds with another gospel.


What did he mean "abide in me"?



6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

(Just because all you branches are gathering together, and agree on your error, does not mean it's the truth. Where are the teachings of jesus Christ?)


7 [b]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you,[/b] ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 [b]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[/b]

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 [b]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.[/b]



Could it get any CLEARER than that?


IS THAT ROCKET SCIENCE?


Do you DO THAT?


Do you even kNOW THAT?


Are you HEARING what the Lord said?


Knowing the wickedness of those who profess him and in works deny him. And the ABUNDANCE of how many of you there are. I suppose not!


You say: "I walk by the spirit".


Jesus said: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: [b]the WORDA that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/b]


WHAT WORDS?

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: [b]the word that I have spoken,[/b] the same shall judge him in the last day.


Those WORDS we have been talking about his whole time. His TEACHINGS that he gave to his disciples, when he was here in his earthly ministry. Those WORDS that are primarily written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.


[b]But what SPIRIT, are you talking about when you constantly quote Paul's partial statment of "walking by the spirit"?[/b]


YOU do not mean the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as written in these books. You mean a SPIRIT, that comes and tells you, you can believe and do just the OPPOSITE of what the written words of his disciples state.



[b]This SPIRIT comes in the forms of the teachings in the books you read, the church doctrines you received or just a spirit talking to your head or your own self talking in your head.[/b]



HIS WORDS, his teachings, in what we call the gospes will JUDGE YOU IN THE LAST DAY!



Do you know? Do you OBSERVE all things whatsoever he commanded THEM?


Can you ask for whatsoever you will and will God do it?


Do signs follow YOU?


You say: "Jesus visted me, he took me to heaven, he ILLUMINATED me. Yet you do not teach or observe what he commanded. THAT WASN NOT JESUS!


Didn't you know there is more than one JESUS?


1 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh [b]preacheth another Jesus,[/b] whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.



So you are so "spiritual", that you cannot be deceived, like Paul said the Corinthains who received the truth first hand and in person by the disciples of the Lord, were in danger of being deceived.


In truth if you are not receiving direct revelation from a devil spirit impersonating the holy spirit, then you have received TEACHINGS of another gospel from someone who did.



Go ahead prove me wrong.



Quickly, without having to THINK about it for a spell, or look it up. List 10 things the Lord commanded you to do.



Quickly recall to memory even 5 full verses of anything Jesus taught and say it.



For that matter just quote two verses, or maybe 3 or four sentences in succession.



Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have [b]the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.[/b]



WHAT is His testimony?



The WORDS he spoke. NOT what you IMAGINE in your head!


The words he taught, his commandments, his sayings, his teachings. Those words LATER written down by his true disciples, who heard them FIRST HAND.


YOU do not hear from Him. Because you do not repeat what he taught, or say what he said, or observe what he said to observe, or keep his commandments.



YOU think there are no commandments to keep. And if you do happen to think their may be a "few", you EXPECT HIM TO DO IT FOR YOU, while you sit on your duff.



[b]And you think that this is "walking in the spirit".[/b]



You walk by your own spirit, you do your own way, then you pick and choose out a few verses of scripture to justify it and sign his name to it.



CURSED CHILDREN.


CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.


Not even Children who have LEFT the right way. But children who have NEVER KNOWN the right way to begin with.


Children who have never been cleansed, who have never been washed. Children who wallowed in the mud from the beginning. Dogs who never even vomited up their abominations even to return to eat it again.


You cannot LEAVE THE RIGHT WAY, WHEN YOU NEVER KNEW IT TO BEGIN WITH.


Be thankful for this, for God will still grant you repentance unto life, if you turn and FOLLOW HIM. (no not that stupid spirit, which is only your own head talking, or the "illumination" given to you by some demon impersonating an angel of light.


Brohters and Sisters BEWARE, those who come to you saying they have been ILLUMINATED by the holy spirit. Beware EVEN MORE, if you get ILLUMINATED.


Children who have never known the right ways of the Lord.


Children who think they are something when they are NOTHING.


Children who were born in the Harlot Church, and never came to a knowledge of the truth.


What "doctrines are essential for salvation?".


How about "ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER HE SAID UNTO HIS DISCIPLES."


How many do you know? How many do you OBSERVE? That is "DO", which means to "practice" or "apply" in your daily life?


Just off the top of my head....


Do you "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his rightousness, KNOWING that he will add all the matieral things you need to you, as you literally follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and BECOME righteous as he is righteous.

OR do you just go around confessing you are the rightousness of God in Christ, while DOING NOTHING HE COMMANDED TO DO?

Do you LOVE YOUR ENEMIES? Do you love those that hate you? Do you bless those that curse you? Do you pray for them that dispitefully use you and persicute you?


Do you look after women (or men if you are a woman), and lust after them in your heart?

Do you FLEE fornication? Do you FLEE from idoatry? Or does the idol TV get bowed to everyday, that you have set up in your living room? Where Satan soes his seeds of fear, doubt and unbelief.

Whatsoever you would, that men should do unto you, do you do it for them?

When you make a mistake do you want forgivness and mercy? Do you GIVE IT TO OTHERS?

Do you look for the return of Jesus in the FLESH and BONE as he said he had? Or do you look for a SPIRIT return?

Do you take heed that no man deceives you? Or do you not need to worry about men, and just continually deceive yourself, by thinking you don't have to do what Jesus commanded and taught?

What I suppose here that I could write down the whole gospel of Luke? Do you DO that gospel? Or how about Mark or John or Matthew?

Quote me a whole chapter in any one of them by heart?

WHAT, you cannot quote the first sermon of Jesus on the Mount?

WHY not?

It's only 3 chapters.

Muslims memorize the WHOLE KORAN.

What's with YOU?

You can't even quote 4 or 5 verses in context and in sequence.


Are you a CRETIAN Christian?


Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, [b]The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.[/b]

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, [b]and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[/b]

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 [b]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.[/b]


Mention "works" to more than half of you here and you will scream like banches (noisy worthless birds that "do do", all over everything.) And then search out every partial verse of scripture you can find to twist and pervert to say YOU DON'T HAVE DO DO ANY WORKS. This is what they taught you in that harlot church you were raised in.



You quote Paul here:


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


And such like as you can find. But deny him here.


Titus 3:8 [b]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.[/b]



And what did HE who you claim as "savior" and even "Lord say?


John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, [b]the works that I do shall he do also;[/b] and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.



What do you think that meant?



PRIMARILY he meant about doing GOOD WORKS. Loving your neighbor, loving your enemy, LOVING THE TRUTH, more than you church doctrine. Wanting to know him and be like him and follow him, and observe all things whatsoever he'd been teaching until the time he was taken out of here.


I hear these phony Christians quote this verse and their emphisis is always on the so called GREATER WORKS, and thinking about doing miracles. OH BOY...but say you have to actually do a commandment or two and again they scream like banchies. Say you actually have to put any normal human effort into something and they'll go to the moon and back to pervert and twist scripture around to try and prove you can't do nothin by your own effort. W-O-R-K is a four letter word to them.


Hey it's easy, just type in the word "works" into the NT search engine and read all the verses that tell you to maintain good works.


OH MY, that's catholic. NO, because the Catholic Church does not teach to do "good works", it teaches to do "catholic works" and simply calls them, "good works".


Again the good works of Christ in what he taught are neither the works of the catholic church, nor the works of the LAW of Moses, thorugh in doing them you will fulfill the Law of Moses.


And if by chance you do run into some Christian group that promotes some work, then it's the works of the Law, not of Jesus Christ, and they have you going to church on a certain day or giving up pork.



WICKED, WICKED, WICKED CHILDREN!


Children that have gone astray having no shepard. Because they will not go to shepard of the sheep. They will not read and observe his teachings.


Children who have been indoctrinated by hirelings, i.e. professional preachers.


Strain at a knat, and swallow a cammel. That is you misunderstand and are BLIND to the simplicity of Christ's teaching, while at the same time devour the most mumbo jumbo theological garbage of men.


Who is this letter to? Whoever their gospel fits the profile. Ut Oh, I'm spiritually profiling here.


We are commanded to: Heb 10:24 [b]And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:[/b]


Yet you have not done that FOR ME!


You don't know HOW to do it for me.


And if you did try and provke me to "love" it would be "tolerance" and not true love in Christ. It would most like be eccumanical in character.


I'm probably going to hell simply because I can find narry a Christian who will PROVOKE ME TO LOVE AND GOOD WORKS.


But you same Christians can sure quote the next verse to me, to try and get me into your apostate meeting places.


Heb 10:25 [b]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,[/b] as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


OH, EXCUSE ME...I quoted way to much of that last verse for you to comprehend. For when you quote it, to try and make be feel guilty, and that I ought to attend your doctrine of devils fest you call "church", you can only quote part:


[b]Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together,[/b]


And do you, have you, EVER provoked me unto love and good works? NEVER!


Would to God, I could have the joy of fellowship with those feasting on the truth of Christ, but there is a FAMINE of the words of the Lord in this land.


There is a church on every street corner with no WORD in it. And every brother and ever sister utterly walks with slanders, and seek not the truth. Nor love have they for the truth, and hence no love for me.


I HATE MY LIFE IN THIS WORLD!


The truth of the true gospel is sweet in my mouth, and bitter in my belly. I am one of the few hearers, and a bad doer. I am vexed with the filthy gospel of the wicked. Woe is me, for I am undone. I am an impious person in a generation of impiety, and there is not one, that will encourage me to love and good works in Christ.


There is no man to walk before me, and teach me, to pray for me, to lay hands on me, to admonish and incourage me. There is no one, no not one, who walks in that power of righteousness as he walked. There is no physician to heal my body and soul. There is none with virture to impart to me.

OK, WHATEVER....the point is I just really wish for human contact of real fellowship with people who are truly following Christ and the truth, and I know I'm not going to get it till the return and the resurrection.


I KNOW THAT GOD IS WORKING IN PEOPLE OUT THERE AND I AM NOT ALONE.

I do not think I'm 'SPECIAL'. Just LONELY for real human fellowship.

What doctrine is essential for salvation?

Did he not say a "little" leaven, leavens the WHOLE LUMP.

I'd say ALL of what he taught uncorrupted and unperverted. No wonder he said "FEW" would ultimatly be saved. No wonder he said straight is the way and narrow the gate that leads unto life and FEW their be that find it. And broad is the way that leads to distruction and MANY there be which go there at.

OH, but he really did not mean it, there will be a great awakening in the end, a great revival. People few will in the end be saved and only by the skin of their teeth.

Do I count myself in that "number", it is to be seen, it is to be seen. Not yet that is for sure.


Regards, (and a little ranting)
El Harris

 2009/10/11 15:34Profile





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