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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : 7 Arguments Atheists Can't Use by Eli Brayley

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 Re:

Aaron wrote: ".....the absurdities of Fundamentalism that inspire ongoing atrocity. Indeed, if there is a God, then He understands. But don't seem to be getting through to you on a serious matter of loony Theology, oppressive public policy and its dangerous personal impact."


Would you mind to explain yourself on this, please?

 2011/5/14 12:03
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

Atheism stands accused of denial. But no evidence is presented. It becomes tiresome. Very well then: I respond by rebuking the hypocrisy of evils done in the name of God. You condemn the motivating delusions behind the inequities of other religions, in willful blindness to much the same closer to home. Specifically, no: a zygote does not have consciousness. So I am glad I was there for a friend in crisis struggling with that malignant propaganda. That is my testimony, from the heart, if that is what you think that you want.

 2011/5/14 13:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Atheism stands accused of denial. But no evidence is presented.



Back to the dictionary, atheism stands FOR nothing, by definition it's only stance is "there is no God". As any anarchist, you are defined not by what you stand for, but by what you are against.

It is not up to me or others to refute you or prove anything to you, because I have nothing at stake. If I win the argument, it is not me that wins, but you; likewise if I lose the argument, it is not me that loses, but you. I have no personal burden to argue or prove anything to you because I have nothing at stake. I walk away with no personal consequences one way or the other, all burden lies with you, because either way you have all the personal consequences. It is YOU who is at stake, therefore it is up to YOU to have ABSOLUTE certainty for your own sake.

There is only one place that ABSOLUTE certainty can be found, and that is Christ. The Muslim doesn’t have it, the Jew doesn’t have it, the Buddhist doesn’t have it, neither the Hindu, neither the Romanist, neither the Atheist, neither the religionist, nor any who is not trusting Christ. “Religious certitude” as you like to call it, with regards to eternity, is only found in the person and work of Christ.

If you don't have Christ you don't have certainty.


OJ

 2011/5/14 17:58
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
It is not up to me or others to refute you or prove anything to you, because I have nothing at stake. If I win the argument, it is not me that wins, but you; likewise if I lose the argument, it is not me that loses, but you. I have no personal burden to argue or prove anything to you because I have nothing at stake. I walk away with no personal consequences one way or the other, all burden lies with you, because either way you have all the personal consequences. It is YOU who is at stake, therefore it is up to YOU to have ABSOLUTE certainty for your own sake.

There is only one place that ABSOLUTE certainty can be found, and that is Christ. The Muslim doesn’t have it, the Jew doesn’t have it, the Buddhist doesn’t have it, neither the Hindu, neither the Romanist, neither the Atheist, neither the religionist, nor any who is not trusting Christ. “Religious certitude” as you like to call it, with regards to eternity, is only found in the person and work of Christ.




Bravo.


_________________
Christiaan

 2011/5/14 18:03Profile
AaronAgassi
Member



Joined: 2011/4/11
Posts: 118


 Re:

Miccah, since you mention it, I think that there is everything to gain from the embrace of faliblism. So it appears to me that you do have something at stake. But please yourself. Moreover, if you have been following this thread at all, you know that I reject your claim that it is up to me, nor possible nor necessary, to be absolutely certain of the falsehood of your fairytale. And the logical falsity of relevance of Argument from Force or Consequence is moot.

First of all Old_Joe, we've been over this at length: The burden of evidence is upon the positive. It is for Theism to demonstrate the existence of God. Of course, you personally can do as you like. But it's peculiar of you to remain in a conversation from which you will only state that you are abstaining! Furthermore, I have taken a positive position, that of faliblism, for which I have presented support. But not to change the subject: There is another specific assertion in question as well, the contention that Atheists are in denial, repeated and pressed with no evidence at all. -Besides being an Ad Hominem anyhow. Evasive, much? And obviously Muslims do indeed claim absolute certitude exactly as Christians, indeed very much so, and a Muslim or any other religionist if so disposed, could explain away Christianity much the same as other competing religions have been explained away in this very discussion. Unless you are the ones in denial, seriously, why won't someone actually field that begged question, among so many, at long last?

 2011/5/14 19:39Profile









 Re: 7 Arguments Atheists Can't Use by Eli Brayley


Hi Aaron,

Quote:
Unless you are the ones in denial, seriously, why won't someone actually field that begged question, among so many, at long last?

Um... please remind me. Which question is it you have in mind? Thanks.

I've been following, but not closely enough, it seems!

 2011/5/14 20:03









 Re:

Aaron

The burden of evidence is on the one who has the most to lose. If I don't "prove" God to you, and He still exists, you still lose, but it costs me nothing. Just like Ginny's example of the tornado, or someone telling you your house is on fire. You can keep telling them to prove it to you, but most will just tell you your house is on fire leaving you to figure the rest out for yourself.

Quote:
"And obviously Muslims do indeed claim absolute certitude exactly as Christians, indeed very much so, and a Muslim or any other religionist if so disposed, could explain away Christianity much the same as other competing religions have been explained away in this very discussion."



There is not one Muslim alive that has absolute certainty of their soul. Even those who die as a shahid are not absolutely certain of what their standing before Allah is. Allah can not be known, so they are never sure.

None can have the confidence of a Christian.


OJ

 2011/5/14 21:16









 Re:

Just for the sake of accuracy, I BELIEVE that if a Muslim dies in an act of jihad, they're guaranteed their soul's security according to their Koran. Not a very pleasant deal though. Everything else I agree with you though Old Joe, unless they die in jihad they have no promise of any sort of salvation for sure.

EDIT: After some of the confusion arising from this post I should clarify that this is what Muslims believe. When I used the term believe it was to imply slight uncertainty (i.e. I could be mistaken about what THEY believe), since italics are not an option.

 2011/5/14 21:23









 Re:

Everest

Not if they come into contact with an unclean animal such as a pork in the event of their jihad. That is why they started packing pork lard around on the buses in Israel. Since then there has not been another homicide bombing on a bus.

It is a very uncertain religion....

OJ

 2011/5/14 21:47









 Re: 7 Arguments Atheists Can't Use by Eli Brayley

Quote:
I BELIEVE that if a Muslim dies in an act of jihad, they're guaranteed their soul's security.

Why do you 'BELIEVE' this? It's not an article of the Christian faith. Do you mean you've heard that MUSLIMS 'BELIEVE' that ...?
Quote:
unless they die in jihad they have no promise of any sort of salvation for sure.

Even IF they die in jihad they have no promise of any sort of salvation for sure. They may think they do, but they've been misinformed. Very little that a Muslim believes has any echo in scripture.

 2011/5/14 21:49





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