| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | "You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." oj
That's an opinion. Some see Paul discussing the secular state as who God used to protect. But I'm not going to delve into all that for the sake of brevity.
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|  2009/10/5 9:05 | | ChrisJD
Member
Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA
| | Re: Just government, Just war, | | Hi again everyone.
I wanted to say that for my own part, I have not intended by my participation in this thread to convince anyone that is a believer that they should fight in wars or to participate in civil affairs that may involve violence. Or that they should not do so.
I do hope though that some of the things mentioned are enough to give us serious pause and carefullness in the limits that we may go in making pronouncements and jugdments about others that do participate in those things.
I can understand the difficulty in coming to a full understanding of this subject and I think it is one that involves a large overview of the scriptures in their entirety and I think it is a subject that needs to be handled with great skilfullness and consideration, especially as it is discussed in a public forum.
I wish you all well.
_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| | 2009/10/5 9:07 | Profile |
| | | 2009/10/5 9:09 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
ccrider wrote:
"You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." oj
That's an opinion. Some see Paul discussing the secular state as who God used to protect. But I'm not going to delve into all that for the sake of brevity.
Let's put the whole quote in there
"[b]If what you are preaching is the truth, it has to apply to the saved and the lost.[/b] You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." Old Joe
There is no opinion about. There is one truth for all mankind, either you preach it to all or none.
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| | 2009/10/5 9:34 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
ccrider wrote:
I guess I like it no better than you being a hypocrite, which is equally true.
I consider being called a hypocrite by you, a badge of honour.
Wear yours proudly too. ;-) |
| | 2009/10/5 9:36 | |
| | Re: | | If what you are preaching is the truth, it has to apply to the saved and the lost. You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." Old Joe
Another hard and fast rule that you previously admonished against. If I were strictly a legalist as in, do this, not that, that's how I would preach.
'I consider being called a hypocrite by you, a badge of honour.
Wear yours proudly too." oj
Nothing better than pride and self honor, the staples of Christianity.
I want to make sure though that I understand you right based on your posts.
The general premise of how you see brothers and sisters who have a certain theology is apparant. Now let me get this straight: they are 'cowardly' and want to 'reap something for doing nothing' as in 'avioding pain, as a coward, to live comfortably'. Does this sound about right??
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| | 2009/10/5 9:42 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Old_Joe wrote:
Quote:
ccrider wrote:
"You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." oj
That's an opinion. Some see Paul discussing the secular state as who God used to protect. But I'm not going to delve into all that for the sake of brevity.
Let's put the whole quote in there
"[b]If what you are preaching is the truth, it has to apply to the saved and the lost.[/b] You must be preaching against the atheist going to war just as much as the Christian." Old Joe
There is no opinion about. There is one truth for all mankind, either you preach it to all or none.
Goodness Joe - wouldn't it be absolutely horrible if every nation quit killing?
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| | 2009/10/5 10:32 | | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7513
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Quote:
So then you agree that there is a time to kill, and a time not to kill.
Yes, I agree. And I do not know of any one else who believes in Biblical non-resistance who will not agree. BUT the difference is who does it. This is the rub and therein lies the disagreements of this thread.
Jesus calls us to be peacemakers and to love our enemies. This is the mission of the church and as blood-washed saints we must be ever about the Master's work, allowing Him to use us a s vessels through whom his work will be accomplished.
This is in direct contrast to the function of the civil government who purpose is to maintain law and order. Paul teaches us this in Romans 13:1-6.
Now I can reasonably predict the next question...
In thinking about this issue and the disagreements about it as evidenced on this thread, may I suggest that since there is a wide range of opinions on this issue, that we learn to practice Biblical non-resistance in our everyday walk of life, in how we relate to others, especially to those who do us wrong or we think they do.
How do we respond when someone passes us on the road and then cuts in sharply in front of us? Or, if the cashier short changes us? Or, our spouse, do we love him/her as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her? Or, our children, do we fly off the handle when they make a mess? Will we cheerfully help them clean it up? Will we give up a social event so we can spend more time with our family? Or, how about a co-worker who is lazy and does not do his job? How often do we get mad when things do not go our way?
Biblical nonresistance teaches us how to respond to these types of situations, not just in the defending of one's country by serving in the military.
Old Joe, I wish you would go to this thread and read it in its entirely. This testimony has blessed many. Here it is: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30264&forum=34&4
ginnyrose
_________________
Sandra Miller
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| | 2009/10/5 12:07 | Profile | wind_blows
Member
Joined: 2009/1/4
Posts: 353
| | Re: | | Seriously this has to be the one of the saddest threads I have ever read. I have not been a christian for as long as most of you here, I will gladly admit that you all have way more knowledge then I do, but serious guys? Twenty-two pages of back and forth why its alright or not for a christian to kill people? You can say that is not what this thread is about but read through it, that is how it comes across to the lost, (was sharing this site with my unsaved family member, he got a really good laugh over this thread. He told me we are all just as argumentative and wanting to push our opinions as the so called unsaved he hangs out with! As far as he is concerned he did not see any of the so called love I was telling him about?)
Maybe its time to just let this thread die? No pun intended, maybe we just agree to say I love you and I know you love me in Christ and which ever one of us needs our eyes opened we trust that God will do it in His timing??
Cause seriously guys its really not saying to much when followers of Christ who are commanded to love thy enemies spend so much time and energy arguing about this stuff:-(
Now I should tell you before anyone tries to pm or yell at me, I am leaving for home this afternoon and I won't be back on again for awhile(how long is in the Lords hands) I will be praying for everyone of us though, may we just let go of all the useless dribble and be about His Kingdom today!!!!
Your little sis in Him
Elizabeth |
| | 2009/10/5 12:34 | Profile |
| | Re: | | ..."Seriously this has to be the one of the saddest threads I have ever read. I have not been a christian for as long as most of you here, I will gladly admit that you all have way more knowledge then I do, but serious guys? Twenty-two pages of back and forth why its alright or not for a christian to kill people? You can say that is not what this thread is about but read through it, that is how it comes across to the lost, (was sharing this site with my unsaved family member, he got a really good laugh over this thread. He told me we are all just as argumentative and wanting to push our opinions as the so called unsaved he hangs out with! As far as he is concerned he did not see any of the so called love I was telling him about?)
Maybe its time to just let this thread die? No pun intended, maybe we just agree to say I love you and I know you love me in Christ and which ever one of us needs our eyes opened we trust that God will do it in His timing??
Cause seriously guys its really not saying to much when followers of Christ who are commanded to love thy enemies spend so much time and energy arguing about this stuff
Now I should tell you before anyone tries to pm or yell at me, I am leaving for home this afternoon and I won't be back on again for awhile(how long is in the Lords hands) I will be praying for everyone of us though, may we just let go of all the useless dribble and be about His Kingdom today!!!!" Your little sis in Him
Elizabeth
.................................
This needed to be said. I want to apologize to those who I may have offended with my arguments.
Old Joe, I'll wear a badge of regret for things I've said to you. I'm a little torn on all this and there seems to be no easy answers. I think the innocent and weak need to be defended (there's no way I would let someone wreak havoc on my children or others for that matter) and I also believe we are to be peacemakers and show the love of Christ... how could that not be a tough one to chew on??? But regardless, the manner of discussion is just as important as the topic discussed and I can drop the ball on this much more than I should. Again I apologize. Thanks. Blessings to all.
cc-
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| | 2009/10/5 13:09 | |
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