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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1530
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Must have gone to check his books to find the answer.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2009/8/25 0:20Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Catholic,

I have just now noticed and skimmed through this thread. I must say that you sound like some other people who i have talked to in the past. One was a mormon and the other was a jehovah witness. The mormon said that they prayed to the father and got peace about the mormon doctrine. My reply was what father because Jesus said to the religious people of his earthly days that their father was the devil. The jehovah witness was taught to accept the teaching and both of them had peace about their belief.

Now I have read where you have stated that you have found peace in your catholic religion. I would like to advise anyone not to base your eternal future on a peace you have found unless He is the "prince of peace". There are many who have a false peace. True salvation comes through faith in Jesus resulting in true justification that brings about true peace with God. True peace must be based solely upon the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement for our sins.

Catholic I have very good reason to believe that you have been deceived just as the Mormon and the Jehovah witness. According to the doctrine of Jesus Christ all three of you have been deceived and Jesus has told us much about taking heed to his teachings and let no man deceive you.

Once a person is deceived they won't be persuaded as long as they are held by the spirit of deception. When the deceived person has accepted what they believe with all their soul then they spend great lengths at trying to deceive others at what they truly believe, because they actually believe it, and don't thing that they have been deceived.

Some may wonder how can a person believe in Jesus and be deceived. Well anytime a person has added another teaching or person to Jesus as being a necessity to their salvation experience will be deceived.

You stated that you have the scriptures, plus the catholic teachings, plus the pope in order to understand God and his salvation. I was born again on my knees in my bedroom calling on the name of the Lord Jesus to save me. I received a wonderful experience in God that by his spirit he led me to read the scriptures and grow deeper in love and fellowship with the Lord. I went to different places as he led me but He kept me away from many fellowships that were not true to his teachings like the mormons, jehovah witnessess, and the catholic church.

 2009/8/25 0:28Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Catholic you are deceived, very very deceived and I shudder to think of what your eternity will be if you do not repent. You mock and laugh trying to bait true believers, attempting to stir them to anger. Where is Christs love in that?

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:5-7

mj

 2009/8/25 0:34Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Catholic wrote:

Quote:



One more thing. You referred to all of your beliefs as "this Most Holy Faith". He he he. That tickles my funny bone. He he he. LOL




Thank you for exposing your true nature. It only took a few days to come about. Thank you Lord for exposing this charlatan.


Quote:
You all DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER!!!



Not true at all! We all agree that you are a clown. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/8/25 1:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Thank you for exposing your true nature. It only took a few days to come about. Thank you Lord for exposing this charlatan.



I don't know what you're reading into this. But if I can't share a giggle with you all, I don't know what I can share.

Like I said. I am not trying to incite anyone.

I just think some of your arguments are silly in a child like sort of way.

Quote:
Not true at all! We all agree that you are a clown.



Yes, maybe I am a clown for Christ. Or a fool for Christ.

 2009/8/25 1:16









 Re:

Quote:
You mock and laugh trying to bait true believers, attempting to stir them to anger. Where is Christs love in that?



Please forgive me. I really am not trying to incite you.

If you only knew how much I love your soul!

I'm so happy to be speaking with you. You are precious to me and to God.

 2009/8/25 1:19









 Re:

Quote:
The mormon said that they prayed to the father and got peace about the mormon doctrine.



But isn't this how you all claim to know that your canon contains the right books? You think a "believer" can just pray and that God will reveal to him/her that the books included are the ones that belong and are inspired by God?

You certainly don't hold to the Catholic/Orthodox view that the Holy Spirit led an ecumenical church council to define it for all men in all times.

So shouldn't I be the one pulling the "mormon" card?

 2009/8/25 1:23
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Catholic wrote:

Quote:


I don't know what you're reading into this. But if I can't share a giggle with you all, I don't know what I can share.




Laughing at the elect of Gods by a deciver is not funny in most people's books. But it does show your character.


Quote:
Yes, maybe I am a clown for Christ. Or a fool for Christ.



No, I'm pretty sure that your just a regular old clown. Or if you prefer, I can just call you what you are.?.

I think someone said it best earlier. You should be refuted at every turn lest you attempt to deceive others.


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/8/25 1:36Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Catholic you wrote: Please forgive me. I really am not trying to incite you.

If you only knew how much I love your soul!

I'm so happy to be speaking with you. You are precious to me and to God.
____________________

You have not incited me to anger, at first I felt sorry for you because I thought perhaps you were like many in the Catholic church lost and deceived, but the things that you have posted here reveal your true intentions and heart. You come to try and deceive others, to spread the lies of a false and pagan religion that only holds eternal separation from God for its followers. There is no love in what you say or what you are about.

I praise God though, the sheep here know their Shepard voice and they are not listening to your lies.

I will continue to pray for your salvation and that one day very soon you will see the truth and repent.

mj

 2009/8/25 2:08Profile
Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re: Sola Scriptura is logically untenable

Catholic,

In reading through this thread, I have noticed that you like to return to your original thesis:

Quote:
The Bible never claims to be the only rule for faith and practice.



While that exact phrase: "the only rule for faith and practice" is not found in the Bible, other scriptures as pointed out by brother Murray give the understanding of the superiority of scripture:

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


While that exact phrase is NOT in the Bible, and the very last chapter states:

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Which could very well be God's application to the entire Bible . . .


Repeatedly you affirm:

Quote:
It is not sufficient. And I would submit that the wide variance of opinions held by sincere seekers is proof that it is insufficient.

Why? Because the Scriptures need to be interpreted. And herein lies the problem. Each of us is FALLABLE. And therefore so is our interpretation.



While your statement:

Quote:
The Bible never claims to be the only rule for faith and practice.



may be true, the Bible gives VERY CLEAR AND UNMISTAKABLE instruction on WHO to take interpretation from:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


I wish that you could be honest enough with yourself to go to http://www.unshackled.org/ and hear life story after life story of the dramatic life transformations that God has brought about in thousands of lives who had no connection to the "pure" interpretation that you suppose the Catholic church to have. Those are just a few of the MILLIONS whose lives have been made holy and Christlike OUTSIDE of the teachings of the Catholic church.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits". I don't know how the Catholics are that you are associated with, but unfortunately, many of the Catholics that I have known live in fornication, drunkenness, and revelry during the week, and once a week confess to the priest, and then return to their enslavement to sin.

Perhaps the Catholics that I have known didn't have the privelege of seeing good Catholic examples of holy lives as perhaps you have, and therefore the blind are leading the blind and both are falling in the ditch.

Perhaps the local priests aren't correctly passing on the "pure interpretation" and that is why they show no fruit of a holy life.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


Catholic, in all honesty, do you have a relationship with Christ that produces fruit unto holiness in your life, or are you a servant of sin?

As a young person, I went to school with a lot of Baptist young people who believed "once you're saved you're always saved", and the way that they interpreted their doctrine, it didn't matter how much they sinned, they were still going to heaven. At a young age, I formed the opininion that all Baptists who believe that doctrine are on their way to hell. Since then I have met several WONDERFUL Baptists (such as Paul Washer) who believe that same doctrine but the way that they interpret it is that if you are living a life that is not producing "fruit unto holiness", it is evident that you are not really saved.

In reality, interpretation IS AN INDIVIDUAL MATTER!!!! No matter how "pure" you believe your stream of interpretation to be, the way that you apply it personally is an individual matter.

Unfortunately, I have never met a Catholic who was "free from sin" and had "fruit unto holiness" as described in Romans 6:20-22. That is why I as well as millions of other protestants have formed the conclusion that the Catholic religion is full of "false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves".

PROVE US WRONG on a local level!!!! Send Catholics to our cities and towns who are living in a way that it is OBVIOUS that the Author of the Bible has transformed their lives!!!!

In the meantime, those protestants whose lives have been transformed by the Author of the Bible will continue to proclaim His word and translate it into every language that we possibly can so that others may know what it is like to become a new creation in Christ:

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


_________________
Michael Strickland

 2009/8/25 6:53Profile





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