SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Evan Roberts Quote
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Romans 6, 7 & 8

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Not this believer.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/4 17:31Profile
theevangelist
Member



Joined: 2003/8/1
Posts: 82
United States Of America

 Re:

quote]Not this believer.




And your reason to believe that Romans 7 isn't refering to the Believer is why? I'd truly like to know.

A servant of Christ,
The Evangelist

 2004/10/4 17:55Profile
theevangelist
Member



Joined: 2003/8/1
Posts: 82
United States Of America

 Re:

Quote:
think one of the clues in Romans 7 is that it is 'without the Spirit'. ie there is no reference to the indwelling Spirit which according to Romans 8 is the defining feature of 'those who are Christ's'; But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Rom 8:9 KJV)


Or you can see it this way...

Romans 8:9 "But you are not in the flesh,..."
(In one sense of the word, Paul is asking the question, "since you are now a Believer and no longer depending on the flesh, why are you resorting to the flesh?")

"...but in the Spirit,..."
(As a Believer, you now have the privilege of being led and empowered by the Holy Spirit; however, He will do such for us only on the premise of our Faith in the Finished Work of Christ)

"...if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you."
(if you are truly saved.)

"...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."
(Paul is really saying that the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives is made possible by what Christ did at Calvary.)(KJV/JSM)


The Evangelist.

 2004/10/4 18:09Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Hey everyone!

I must admit that I almost feel criminal saying anything in this discussion because I have been away from the forum for so long, yet I have not really been “away” but, I have been enjoying all your posts.

I think that Watchman Nee has a slightly different twist on this exact discussion from his book (the normal Christian life)…if anyone is interested it is under the “downloads” section from the “other speakers” section. All the discussions are 30 minutes long or less...

In Christ

James


_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/10/4 18:48Profile
theevangelist
Member



Joined: 2003/8/1
Posts: 82
United States Of America

 Re:

No thanks, I'm learning from the Bible and what it says first before I listen to anything by anyone else.

 2004/10/5 11:33Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
"...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."
(Paul is really saying that the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives is made possible by what Christ did at Calvary.)(KJV/JSM)

No he isn't. If he had wanted to say that he would have said it.

Quote:
"...but in the Spirit,..."
(As a Believer, you now have the privilege of being led and empowered by the Holy Spirit; however, He will do such for us only on the premise of our Faith in the Finished Work of Christ)


Nope, he ain't saying that either. ;-)For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Rom 8:14 KJV) He says the criteria for recognizing 'sons of God' is that they are 'led of the Spirit'. He is not talking about privilege or potential but actuality.

Paul is saying that it is the actual presence of the indwelling Spirit that identifies someone as 'His', and that it is actually being led of the Spirit that identifies someone as a 'son of God'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/5 11:56Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Br Ron wrote:

Quote:
Paul is saying that it is the actual presence of the indwelling Spirit that identifies someone as 'His', and that it is actually being led of the Spirit that identifies someone as a 'son of God'.



Paul also identifies that those who are the sons, [u][i][b]"if [/b][/i][/u] indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together." Romans 8:17. I believe Paul is teaching of the cross. Listen to the verses prior.

"Therefore [u][i][b]brethren[/b][/i][/u], we are debtors-not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh, [u][i][b]for if you live according to the flesh you will die.[/b][/i][/u]; but [u][i][b]if by the Spirit [/b][/i][/u], you put to death the deeds of the body you will live." Romans 8:12-13

The cross is clearly taught here. First one cannot teach that a non-believer has the choice to follow the Holy Spirit or his flesh. That is in direct opposition to Scripture. The unregenerated man can only follow his carnal ways unto death. Man is totally depraved. Period. So Paul teaches that a believer has a choice to follow his old ways of the flesh or submit to being led by the Holy Spirit. If he chooses the ways of the flesh he dies. If he choose the way of the Spirit he lives. And if by the Spirit, this believer will suffer the death of his fleshly ways. And this is to the glory of God and the power of His promise for all the children.

You know Paul once spent his energies studying the traditions of men, then when Christ was manifest in him, he then considered all those traditions as rubbish. Hear the Scripture, do not deny the words of Jesus. Do not honor the traditions of men. Those traditions will keep you from your cross.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/10/5 12:26Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2783
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

I think we miss an important point when we focus on whether chapter 7 is written in reference to regenerate or unregenerate man.

Paul has already established, in previous chapters, that the Law could not justify a sinner in the sight of God. In chapter 7 it seems clear that he is showing that the Law can't bring sanctification either.

I think the point to consider is that in every case, whether a man is regenerate or not, the Law is not sufficient to bring peace and sanctification just as it is not sufficient to justify, or pardon, or deal with the evils of sin. Paul is simply completing his case here in chapter 7 showing us that the Law is unable to meet any of these needs of men. This prepares us for the glorious victory of 7:25 and on into chapter 8.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2004/10/5 12:37Profile
theevangelist
Member



Joined: 2003/8/1
Posts: 82
United States Of America

 Re:

Quote:
Nope, he ain't saying that either. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Rom 8:14 KJV) He says the criteria for recognizing 'sons of God' is that they are 'led of the Spirit'. He is not talking about privilege or potential but actuality.



No he isn't. If he had wanted to say that he would have said it. ;-) *wink, wink* Actually Jeff you have an outstanding point! "Philologos" Don't let your name get to you brother. :-?


The Evangelist :-)

 2004/10/5 13:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
"Philologos" Don't let your name get to you brother.


Can you explain?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/5 14:33Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy