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yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Quote:

yoadam wrote:

...but that he has also from eternity chosen certain particular people to whom, rather than to others, he would within time grant faith in Christ and perseverance.



The apostle Paul never said such as this and neither will you find it in all of the Holy Scriptures. It is only found in the writings of Calvinism and I will not trust in what Calvinism believes to save me, but only in the precious Lord Jesus Christ-in the blood of his everlasting covenant.

Blessings to you!


The Apostle Paul did teach these doctrines!

[i]Chosen From Eternity Past[/i]
Ephesians 1:1-14,
[b]1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[u]4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
[/u]7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
[u]11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:[/u]
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
[/b]

[i]Chosen Particular People Rather Than Others[/i]
Romans 9:9-24,

[b]9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
[u]11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)[/u]
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
[u]13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.[/u]
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[u] 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/u]
17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
[u]18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.[/u]
[u]19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,[/u]
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [/b]

[i]Faith & Perseverance are both gifts from God[/i]
Ephesians 2:1-10,
[b]1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 [u]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.[/u]
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which [u]God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/u]
[/b]

[i]God Grants Repentance[/i]
2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NASB),
[b]The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, [u]if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,[/u]
26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.[/b]

Acts 11:18,
[b][u]18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.[/u][/b]

Acts 13:48,
[b][u]48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.[/u][/b]

[size=large][b]PAULINE.[/b][/size]

Lastly, as an added bonus, please go to the following link to watch Paul Washer explain election:[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGMp0md5CE](If you have no predestination, then you have no salvation.) [/url]


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 21:42Profile









 adam (and maybe others)

this thread is a stench and a reproach to Messiah.

men of flesh arguing over Scripture with such vehemence, and it seems to me, some actually "deify" other men of flesh, to wit, Calvin, Finney, Arminia (sp)and even Paul,(and even paul Washer) who warned against such with the, "I follow Appolos, I follow Paul' warning.

and this thread is just the tip of the iceberg, so many threads arguing this or that, with men coming in screaming about how the 'church is dead', or the 'church is lukewarm', or 'watch out for the emerging church, they're just a pack of wolves', etc, etc etc ad nauseum.

This Most Holy Faith is so simple, It's about Jesus and Him Crucified. period, and He gave us two Royal Commandments, and a Life to emulate, and he gave us the Comforter available thru the Baptism of the Holy Ghost so that we may obtain power from on High, so that we all may be the One Body, the Church, to fulfill God's plan, in unity, grace and love....and as evidenced by this thread, and many others, and the sad sordid history of "Christendom", what have we done in Jesus Name?

answer me this question, God forbid, should someone who doesnt know the Riches of God, the shalom wholeness of Messiah, read this thread, and marvel and be envious of so great a salvation, and exclaim, "Look how they love each other"?
Could they say that, after such a poor witness?

You know the answer to that, this all is the laughing stock of devils, its a farce, its playing at "religion", who can proclaim their holiness with the loudest voice, who can denounce their brother with the most cutting words, butressed by Scripture taken out of context, who can make other followers seem like less thans because they "just dont get it"...or as you say in your previous thread:

Quote:
"utter nonsense" "You are absolutely wrong" "I am amazed at your level of ignorance "



You know when you first came on here, and told about your childrens ministry, how did I respond to you?...with joy filled encouragement!

Isnt that the way we should be with one another? ...and please dont burden me with the "iron sharpening iron" basis for these hellish threads, thats a lie, all these threads do is serve the devils purpose to try and divide the Body, thats all.

It is my firm conviction that to do what we must do to be who we must be IN MESSIAH JESUS, as His Body is to give much focus , study prayer, tears to His High Priestly Prayer in John 17, and to always remember that wonderful exhortation in Hebrews 3:1.

Forget all that backslidden religiostic palaber and posturing. Wouldnt you rather be that tax collector, who couldnt even look heavenward, as he asked for mercy, instead of that pridesoaked pharisee who pounded his breast in religious self-righteousness?

I dont mean to seem harsh, but this thread is just terrible.

neil

 2009/7/11 23:03
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re: adam (and maybe others)

Neil, I appreciate what you have said.

I want to say right now: I am sorry to anyone if I, being overzealous for the truth, have been hurtful. Reformed Confessional Protestants like myself who claim to hold on to the "doctrines of grace" ought to be among the most gracious believers in all of Christendom! Please forgive me.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from. These issues are simply too important to be cast aside in the name of unity. These are the issues on which the reformation hinged upon. Arminianism is backdoor to popery. Many on this forum are siding with the roman catholics on the issues of predestination and "free-will".

As someone previously has said, these issues are crucial. Once more and I quote,

Quote:
Finally, where you land on this issue really does affect the way you view the world, evil, your confidence in your eternal future, your preaching and teaching, the spiritual health of the visible church, even your view of God himself. That is why this issue has been debated for centuries and why it is an important debate as it can directly affect the believer's state of mind and ministry.



The gospel is at stake.

Grace & Peace.
Adam


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 23:27Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.

rbanks, how are you?


"...so easily go beyond the scriptures."


I think that this is an important observation.


The scriptures come to us in the language and phrasing and context that they do, not in the interpretations that are made about them. Every word is important, and the Bible says was breathed by God.

It is not fair or honest to present them [b]both[/b] as though they are interchangeable or one is synonomous for the other.



The Bible says that the words of God are pure and purified 7 times(Ps 12:6). [b]They are choosen words[/b].





_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/7/11 23:35Profile
yoadam
Member



Joined: 2009/2/10
Posts: 97
OREGON

 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone.

rbanks, how are you?


"...so easily go beyond the scriptures."


I think that this is an important observation.


The scriptures come to us in the language and phrasing and context that they do, not in the interpretations that are made about them. Every word is important, and the Bible says was breathed by God.

It is not fair or honest to present them [b]both[/b] as though they are interchangeable or one is synonomous for the other.



The Bible says that the words of God are pure and purified 7 times(Ps 12:6). [b]They are choosen words[/b].


Yes, Agreed. We do not want to be wiser than the scriptures.


_________________
Adam

 2009/7/11 23:40Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone.

rbanks, how are you?


"...so easily go beyond the scriptures."


I think that this is an important observation.


The scriptures come to us in the language and phrasing and context that they do, not in the interpretations that are made about them. Every word is important, and the Bible says was breathed by God.

It is not fair or honest to present them [b]both[/b] as though they are interchangeable or one is synonomous for the other.



The Bible says that the words of God are pure and purified 7 times(Ps 12:6). [b]They are choosen words[/b].








Thank you for those gracious words and very much agreed.

Also thanks for asking how I am doing for I am doing much better than I deserve.

Blessings to you!

 2009/7/11 23:53Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again everyone,


rbanks,


"The apostle Paul didn’t even take that liberty upon himself..."


I think this is another important observation.


It is a tremendous thing to make wide and encompasing statements about the hidden counsel and will of God toward all men for all time.

Paul said that he did not go beyond the measure that was given to him(2Co 10:13-14), and that he had built, according to the grace that was given to him, as a wise master builder(1Co 3:10).


In the context of what you were responding to, I thought of what God had said to Phinehas after his actions had stayed the plague(Numbers 25:10-13), or what God had said to Abraham His friend before the destruction of Sodom(Genesis 18:17-19).


What a tremendous thing it is to speak for God.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/7/11 23:56Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

rbanks,


"I am doing much better than I deserve.'


You and me both!!


If I could respond to one more thing,



"...walked in the power of the Holy Spirit like the apostles"


I think this was worth considering also.


The Apostle Paul wrote of having fully preached the Gospel(Romans 15:18-19)and I consider the close of Mark's record of the Gospel also(Mark 16:20).



The Lord Jesus said that if He bore witness of Himself, his witness was not true(John 5:31). But also that the works that He did, they bore witness of Him(John 5:36). And that it was from God.


And Paul said that his preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power(1Co 2:5). And this he said, so that their faith would not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.



In that same way I think of what the Lord Jesus said of His teaching, that it was not His own, but God's(John 7:16-18).




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/7/12 0:35Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

yoadam wrote:

Quote:


Amen. Good thing Calvin taught what Jesus and Paul taught! :-)


First thread starts out slamming Calvin and reformed orthodoxy. Then when someone like myself defends that Calvin simply preached the gospel according to the scriptures, people tell me to take my eyes off Calvin???

This kind of reasoning is absurd! :-o




Hey Yoadam,

I have no idea what thread you are talking about. Also, I have no reasoning behind my posts except to glorify the Lord and no other.

But I am pretty familiar with what Jesus taught, and so far, I have not seen Jesus preach on any sort or any kind of acronym. :-P

Blessings my friend. :-)


_________________
Christiaan

 2009/7/12 1:44Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: Is Calvinism the Faith that was once delivered to the saints?

"If one is to live by God's words, then it is necessary to make certain that what we are living by truly is a word or words that have proceeded from God. This requires the testing of the translation one is using. And it requires as much study of the original languages from which a translation is made as can be done in the time God's providence has allotted. It is well to remember that all men are to be juged by the words which God has spoken through the prophets and apostles. It is not enough to simply have a general sense of scripture...

It is a principle alien to true christianity to rest on men's interpretation of the words of God. No man ever has authority in himself, it is the Spirt that witnesses to the truth. Nevertheless, one is a servant of God only if he or she can give a complete demonstration of what he says from the Scriptures. And to be sure that there is no change of the emphasis that God himself has given, this calls for a healthy search of the meaning of the original word written, in its complete context."
Jay P. Green, Sr.

Jimotheus says, "The atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ was not limited to a priviledged few..."

Thus saith the LORD,

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep." John 10:11

"Even as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep." John 10:15

"But you do not believe for you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. " John 10:26

"Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock among which the Holy Spirit has placed you to take the oversight for Him and act as shepherds to the Church of God, which He has bought with His own blood." Acts 20:28

"Husbands, love your wives, even as the Messiah loved his church, and delivered himself up for it" Eph. 5:25

"Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant" Heb. 13:20

"And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins." Matthew 1:21

"For the Son of Man also did not come to be waited upon, but to wait on others, and to give His life as the redemption-price for a multitude of people." Mark 10:45

Jimotheus says, "According to Paul (and John), we are only elect IN THE SON not an election of particular men..."

Thus saith the LORD,

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who will lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth: Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, or rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. But in all these things we are more than conquerors, through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor hight, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. " Rom. 8:28-39

Romans 11:5-8 "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) to this day."

Mark 4:10-12, "And when he was alone, they that were about him, with the twelve, asked of him the parable. And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

John 6:39-40, "And this is the Father's will who hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

"All things are delivered to me by my Father; and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:27

Luke 10:22, "All things are delivered to me by my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."

 2009/7/12 3:30Profile





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