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Josef83
Member



Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 Re:

I just heard prince saying in his latest message
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky79sfYWuIw
95% of what he is saying is true.
then comes the poison at the end.
that if you get angry god stil sees you good.
that is opposit to the words of jesus
that if you get angry you risk hell.

if you get angry and dont overcome it you will go to hell
is the teaching of poonen.
both preach new covernant yet both gospels are against each
other.
who is right??

I belive in poonen.





 2010/9/2 19:05Profile
jtohyh
Member



Joined: 2010/10/13
Posts: 1


 Re:

Hi Josef83,

My brother in Christ, Josef83. Just have to make a reply cause what you written is in error and as a brother, I love the Body too much to let you go off thinking our God is such a 'hard taskmaster'.. who weighs every little thing we do, every emotion we feel and makes 'heaven and hell' decisions by the second on the billions of Christians on earth. I hope you are seeing the folly in your statements.

Rightly divide the Word. Not all of what Jesus says is New Covenant... He hasn't been crucified yet. Jesus had to deal with Israel before His Death and while Israel was still under OT (Law). Recall all His statements about removing your body parts if they sin (eyes, limbs etc); the rich young ruler when he asked how he can inherit eternal life... He did not say 'believe on me'. Jesus replied using the commandmants. God is a JUST (Judicial) God so everything must be done to "fullfill all righteousness".

So why did Jesus use the commandmants back at the people? Is it to lay a heavier burden on his 'little flock'? To mock them? Of course not. Jesus is lifting the Law to it's pristine standard and for the purpose it was given. He is telling Israel all their Law-adiding cannot meet God's standards. You need a SAVIOR.

Later, it was Paul who was Graced to receive the Gospel message, being called to the third heaven.

So, in love bro, think of your God as Abba (Father). That is the most important nature of God that Jesus came to reveal. All the OT nature are there but above all, since we are in new covenant, Gos is your Father.

If you have children, do you treat them the way you may think God treats us (if you get angry, you risk hell!)

Simply, God is LOVE

 2010/10/13 23:22Profile
Josef83
Member



Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 Re:

Dear jtohyh

John the baptist said, repent for the kingdom of heaven is almost here.
Then when jesus came he said Repent for the kingdom of God is now here.
kingdom of God is the new covernant
then later in matthew in matthew chapter 5-7.
What Jesus does in matthew 5-7
is that he intrudces the new covernant.
you have heard it being said...
then he refers to the old covernant.
you shall not murder.
but now i say to you...
he who even call his brother an idiot is a murderer.
so what Jesus does is that he sharpens the law and intrudeces the new covernant.
you have heard it´s being said..
he who divorce his wife commit adultry.
but i say to you now..
he who even lust in his heart after a women has already commit adultry with her.
at the end of the sermon he is telling this is the law:
do for others what you want others to do for you.
and that even paul, peter and john and james speaks about in their epistles.
Jesus also intrudeces true blessing in the new covernant
in matthew 5. blessed are you that are meek,
persecuted etc.
in the old covernant a blessing was wealth, health a long life, many children etc.
But in the new covernant a blessing is spiritual (eph 1:3)

the new covernant is about (matt 1:21) jesus will save his people from their sins.
therefore romans 6:11,14) sin shall not rule over you.
it means we can get victory over sins, if we are honest and belive it.
it doesnt means in 1 day we get 100% total victory.
but we can get victory over sins.
therefore jesus is saying if you dont get victory over anger you will go to hell.
if you watch a women and dont overcome it you will go to hell.
but thoose that are in christ and under grace under the new covernant, will get victory over sins!
Hebrews is explaining that the old covernant is old.
it means if you work at Nokia 2005-2009
then you change 2009 to ericson.
then it means your contract at Nokia is over and you are no longer a Nokia worker But a Ericson worker.
same with the old covernant and the new.
the old is expired, we have a new covernant where anger is the same as murder, lusting after women same as adultry.
love of money same as idoltry.
and the law is: do for other what you want them to do for you.


But Prince is preaching something else.
he mixes old with the new covernant (old covernant blessings and bring it into the new covernant).
therefore I do not belive in his gospel.

why is his book expensive?
he would charge only printing cost and post if he want to bless others.
also on his website you have to pay for downloading his mp3.
where in the new covernant or in the old did jesus, paul, peter, john, samuel, jeremia or any other behave like this?
No you cannot serve God and Mamon, you have to choose.
and in mika 3:11 mika deals with the teachers and prophets
because they preach for money.
joh 2:13 ff
jesus went into the temple driving out thoose making money in Gods name.
When Elisa healed nama, he would not receive money for healing.
Today you cant find many like that, thoose preachers and teachers are mostly found here on sermonindex.



thats what i Belive :-)

You can have victory over sins!


Josef Löwdin, Göteborg, Sweden.

 2010/10/14 0:24Profile
lilmstexas
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1


 Re:

Some will be persecuted, but nowhere in the bible does it say they are poor, or homeless. Rather, it specifically states that the disciples CHOSE to leave their homes to follow Jesus. This to me means that they had the means to do so. I believe that those who are so 'against' prosperity teachings are limiting our God, or have not tapped into his overwhelming wealth. WE are to lead the way and be the salt of the earth in this WORLD; note that to do so, we cannot be poor souls so taken with our own thoughts of how we are going to meet next month's bills, that we cannot do HIS work. That is a devilish mentality and it is the enemy that raises the anti-prosperity doubts. Simply, believe. It is that simple. Do you think God punishes with poverty? That he punishes period? If so, what of free will? If we have free will, why would he punish us? No, he WANTS to give us good things and it is only us who limit him.

 2011/1/12 18:29Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

How sad.

 2011/1/12 18:46Profile









 Re: Joseph Prince



I take your point about choosing to leave all. But what is there in scripture to suggest that those who do, receive more - except with persecution? The disciples had left all before Jesus went to the cross. Later, they and many more died for the sake of Jesus' Name.

When Jesus was saying 'Woe' to certain people, one of their woes was to have received their reward here on earth.

Paul said: 2 Cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding [and] eternal weight of glory,


Hebrews 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw [he was] a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's command. 24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.

And others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented -- 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, [in] dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 2011/1/12 18:53
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

N/a

 2011/1/14 7:44Profile
RainMan
Member



Joined: 2010/4/21
Posts: 227


 Re:

i haven't read the entire post but i would like to contribute a few things.

1.Jesus teaches us that "by their fruit we shall no them"(He would say "shall" if we are incapable of doing so). We are not allowed to judge peoples motivation or heart as we are not God. But discernment of a false teacher is based on fruit and doctrine. according to Matthew 7 good trees cannot have bad fruit and bad trees likewise cannot have good fruit. By scrutinizing fruit we should be able to discern as this is what Jesus said we should do. People make mistakes but the true people of God do not continue making the same mistakes. There simply is no biblical presidence for genuine preachers preaching lies for years wihtout repenting and these people being genuine. The minor arguments we have we are told to not quarrel about. But damnable teachings are different, we are told not to condemn but did peter not say these false teachers were going to hell? If we cant condemn and peter said they were going to hell then maybe he was simply stating scriptural fact which has nothing to do with him knowing their hearts



2. The apostles have clearly expounded upon the motivation and intent of false teachers as well as their doctrine. Paul says to timothy when listing criteria for ministry that bishops should be pure/blameless then he goes on to say "that to the pure all things are pure" when a man of God is dead to the world and pure and holy he may make mistakes here and there but ultimately his doctrine will be pure because he has no doctrine in himself and teaches what Christ and the apostles taught.

3 Sola scritora

4 The inability to discern false prophets is not of God it is a spiritual blindness that we need to pray for to be removed so we can see clearly. I myself was a chief supporter of people like prince but had i died when i was in error for believing and even spreading venom would i have been spared? We all want to believe that...

God is a nice bloke in the sky and its really not his word that counts but because he is incompetent we have to tell him about his word as we subjectively understand it.

how my heart cries as we have so blasphemed his name and rendered his word of no effect because of our subjectivity.

5. Jesus and the apostles all taught us how to identify and avoid false prophets by discernment of fruit and doctrine, to say we should judge as we dont know peoples hearts is a satanic persuasion designed to deceive and allow demonic operatives to function without contention from the true people of faith.

Judging (will provide scriptures if needed)

What does the bible teach about judging

1. Only God can see the heart so no man should morally condemn his brother but rather look to restore in love


2. the spiritual man(indwelling spirit enabled) discerns all spiritual things. Is the doctrine of demons a spiritual thing? If it is it must be spiritually discerned shouldn't it?

3. We are told to judge amongst one another. Simply put we should be able to resolve disputes and civil disagreements without dragging each other to the courts of men.

there are about three contexts of judging in the bible one we cant do and the other two we are supposed to. This is where rightly dividing comes in we cant simply take Jesus out of context and say people should not spiritually discern(its not what the scripture says)

I was onced Deceived myself by false doctrine. Then i heard his voice calling me away from the venom of vipers and like carter colon said i "ran" as fast as i legs could carry me. Let us stop deifying man and let God be God.

RAT POISON IS 98% NUTRITIOUS BUT I WILL STILL KILL YOU
God bless

 2011/1/14 8:02Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Good post, RainMan.

Philippians 1:9-10

And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;

 2011/1/14 8:28Profile
BludBaut
Member



Joined: 2011/4/27
Posts: 4


 Re: False prophets

I have a lengthy comment for the above Scriptures by "Anonymous" but for the time being, I'll just say that those Scriptures, while clearly true and from the Word of God, seem to be most often wielded by people who don't know the voice of God, don't know sound doctrine and have no concept of what walking with God is.

They're usually hard nosed, hard-hearted, mean-spirited, unkind, ungracious, unloving, unmerciful and the people who seem most like them are the Pharisees.

Oh, and I did read Matthew 12:36, James 1:26, and Colossians 4:6 and still thought it appropriate to make my comment.

When we discover the Church is full of tares, should our response be other than, "An enemy has done this"?

IMO, Joseph Prince is in the top of the top 5% of preachers in the world today.

Another absolutely excellent preacher is Dan Mohler, who led Todd White to the Lord. Searching those names together will get the right guys and watching and listening to anything you can find by them will be a blessing to all who know the fellowship of the Lord.

Jesus is so wonderful!

 2011/4/27 8:58Profile





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