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Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

[i]Gal 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."


Rom 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe."


Rom 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."


Rom 5:17 "For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."


Rom 8:31 "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."[/i]


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2009/6/30 10:38Profile
alan4jc
Member



Joined: 2007/8/15
Posts: 190
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

"He is appeased by a reform of the morals. He who ceases to sin renders the anger of God extinguishable." Lactantius, 304-313"

It is quotes like these that show your theology. You believe to repent means you have ceased from sin, also that your promise or desire to not sin is somehow pleasing to God. The Apostle Paul warned against these ideas, all you need to do is read his letters. Quit putting confidence in the flesh.


To answer you question about me repenting. As I said before I was a wicked man and deserved the wrath of God completely. I grew up believing in a God and knew of Jesus Christ but I deceived myself into thinking I was okay, that I was not as bad as all the rest.. When I heard the gospel I knew I was NOT okay, I was a sinner and that was terrifying. Did I repent? Oh yes I no longer believed I was okay I believed what the Bible says of those who trust in anything but the shed blood of Jesus as penalty paid for wicked sinners. I realized though I could try and promise all day long to be better there was no hope for me if I did not believe the gospel. Sure I hated my sin but I only hated it because I didn't want to go to Hell. Now I hate it because of the sacrafice of Jesus for my sins, He has come in and made His home in me and has promised to never no never leave me nor forsake me. It is in His promise that I place my trust, I place no faith in any promise I might make to Him...and He does not desire empty promises that would include the notion that I must stop sinning to be a good candidate for His grace. The Bible is clear that Jesus died while we were yet sinners and it was at the cross that justice was satisfied 2000 years ago and it is in that that I place all my hope and faith.



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Alan Taylor

 2009/6/30 10:40Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

[i]"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."[/i] (Galatians 2:20)

Do you not understand? We are [b]CRUCIFIED WITH[/b] CHRIST, which means our sentence is passed for we died with Christ on that cross 2000 years ago. The law is not removed, WE are. We have become [b]DEAD[/b] TO THE LAW by the body of Christ, so it is not the law that is gone but US. Our old identity is history, and we are alive to God with a new identity: we are new creatures in Christ, born of the second Adam, and stand fully justified before God by the very righteousness [i]of[/i] God. Glory be to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ! He has saved us from certain destruction by dying for our sins, in our place, that we may be live through Him! Glory be to God alone!


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Eli Brayley

 2009/6/30 10:55Profile
alan4jc
Member



Joined: 2007/8/15
Posts: 190
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

AMEN!! Eli


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Alan Taylor

 2009/6/30 11:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

True, there is repentance, that is repentance that God gives and allows for His children for their benifit and His Love by His Grace. Not my repentantance from a wicked heart, but the true repentance of God through and in Christ Jesus.

Do I repent? Repent for what? I don't even know what to repent of or how to do it, unless God allows true repentance by His giving and my receiving.

This is the repentance that leads to salvation, it is of and from and through God, by Jesus Christ, By Grace through faith.

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The repentance and sorrow of the world, that which was me, lead me to death. Only the repentance of God given and granted to me has worked repentance in me unto salvation.

2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

How do we appose ourselves? By trying in our own will and strength to repent and be baptized for salvation, What did Paul say about John who truly baptized in water? Earthly repentance to the receiving of Christ Jesus as their own who was sent to them first.

Man can try all he wants to, to repent, but unless it is given and granted by God, it is folly.

Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Let us go on into perfection in Christ Jesus, and learn true repentance, when it is given by God for His Children.

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


In Christ, my true repentance: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2009/6/30 11:35Profile









 Re:

Quote:
your promise or desire to not sin is somehow pleasing to God



If God is not pleased with repentance, God must be pleased with sin. The only reason God would not be pleased with men turning from sin is if God is pleased with men staying in their sins.

[b]Sin displeases God:[/b]

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was oly evil continually. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." Genesis 6:5-6

[b]Repentance pleases God:[/b]

"Say unto them, as I love saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die"? Ezekiel 33:11

"I say unto you that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Luke 15:7

Quote:
The Apostle Paul warned against these ideas, all you need to do is read his letters.



To interpret the writings of Paul as teachings against repentance is to terribly misunderstand his writings and to put him at odds with the rest of the Bible!

"As also in all his epistles, speaking in tem of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16

 2009/6/30 14:02
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Eli_Barnabas wrote:

Do you not understand? We are [b]CRUCIFIED WITH[/b] CHRIST, which means our sentence is passed for we died with Christ on that cross 2000 years ago.

Actualy, one only dies with Christ when he submits to the death, not 2000 years ago.

It is when you were baptized into Jesus Christ at the time of your salvation, that is when you were baptized into his death (Romans 6:3)

Quote:
The law is not removed, WE are. We have become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ,

Amen!

Quote:
...so it is not the law that is gone but US

Wrong conclusion, sorry.

We do not become gone, but are lifted right up there with the law.
We are no longer under the law, but we still must have a law, otherwise we would be lawless.

We have the law writen on our hearts, instead of stone tablets as in the time of Moses.

The Law writen on stone became the Law writen on flesh (our heart which was stone, but now is flesh) Eze 11:19, Eze 36:26

 2009/6/30 14:54Profile
alan4jc
Member



Joined: 2007/8/15
Posts: 190
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Well I think I have made myself as clear as I need to on this subject.And the reason the young man posted his question in the first place is because he does hate his sin and has been confused by people like you who tell him now all he has to do is stop sinning. Even though you yourself have not stopped sinning, you have simply reinvented what sin really is.


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Alan Taylor

 2009/6/30 15:17Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Quote:
If God is not pleased with repentance, God must be pleased with sin. The only reason God would not be pleased with men turning from sin is if God is pleased with men staying in their sins.



Your statement reveals your ignorance. Of course God is displeased with sin, and of course God is pleased with righteousness. That is not the issue. The issue is that YOU are unrighteous - you are a sinner. God is displeased with YOU and your so-called repentance which is no repentance at all: for you tell men to keep the commandments and you don't even do it yourself. You're a wicked law-breaker in God's sight. You are worse than that - you are defying God's glory by saying that you in your own self-righteousness do not fall short of it (Romans 3:23). You are lowering the standard of righteousness. You are calling God a liar who declared that by the deeds of law no flesh would be justified in His sight. You are putting men in bondage and are an enemy of the cross.

The issue is not whether God is against sin or not. We affirm more than you that He is. He is so against sin that He does not accept anything but perfect righteousness - that which was exhibited by the Lord Jesus Christ alone - and that He punished sin at Calvary by slaying His own Son for sinners. God is most assuredly against sin, and therefore you are in grave trouble unless you believe on the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. You do not believe, as you assume you do. For "the law is not of faith" (Gal. 3:12), and you have not submitted to God, but are "going about to establish your own righteousness" (Romans 10:3). I fear for you. May God have mercy on you and do to you as He did to Saul of Tarsus, that you too may see that you are "the chief of sinners".


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Eli Brayley

 2009/6/30 15:43Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
alan4jc wrote:
...all he has to do is stop sinning. Even though you yourself have not stopped sinning

Sin is always a choice. All one needs to do i consistantly choose not to sin, and there you have it.
Quote:
, you have simply reinvented what sin really is.

Sin realy is a willfull, intentional, volitional choice.

If it is anything eles, there would be no clpability.

[b]Example:[/b]
I don't want to sin, however, I make a mistake.
That mistake is not a sin, but something out of my control.

One is not accountable for that which is out of his control.

However, there is a way for a mistake to be in one's control by neglect of taking caution.

 2009/6/30 15:50Profile





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