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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Beware Beloved!

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[b]Beware Beloved![/b]

I truly believe that one of the primary purposes of God visiting us in Barnsdall, OK was to challenge what seems to be an unloving and unmerciful spirit that will poison us as individuals and as groups of various kinds if we do not discern and forsake it. You will note that both the Sadducees, Pharisees and certain of the disciples had a very unloving 'spirit' about them before they received the Holy Spirit.

They did not like children.
They did not like prostitutes.
They did not like Publicans.
They did not like Herodians.
They did not like sinners in general.
They would pass by a beaten man with no compassion.
They would request FIRE to fall from heaven on those that rejected Christ.
(Just to name a few)

And what did our Lord say, you know not what [u]manor[/u] of spirit you are of. There is a bitterness and an angry spirit that is not the Holy Spirit and that [i]lies at the door of every revival and repentance preachers doorstep.[/i] If we do not master it we will become a 'version' of Phelps. Whether it be a 'Phelps' a 'Phelps lite' or a 'Phelps extra lite' that angry, bitter ungodly poison will manifest.

That poison spirit seems to manifest greatly in Phelps so-called ministry. I'm trying to play the ball and not the man here. Is what we see the fruit of the Spirit? We will know them NOT by their willingness to preach righteousness, holiness, hell, judgment, etc. [u]but by their fruits[/u]. Do men gather grapes among prickly stabbing thorns?

We must know that the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. The FIRE of anger is not the [b]FIRE[/b] of the Holy Spirit. When one cannot discern the difference between anger and unction there is a move into the earthy, sensual and demonic. It seems to me to be the fire of hell that is being used to PREACH hell. Beloved, this ought not so to be.

[color=000066]But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3)[/color]

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Reposted this in it's entirety due to it's precise and exact application to not only this but so many other areas of discussion. For the life of me, would to God that this might cut into some of us ... [i]sharply[/i].

Waltern, this is [i]the[/i] issue - Not the didactics's of an exacting language translation, not the constant [i]strain[/i] of Prov 19:13

[b]Continual dropping[/b] - The irritating, unceasing, sound of the fall, drop after drop, of water through the chinks in the roof.
(Albert Barnes)

It is the [i]manner[/i], it is the spirit of the matter, it is everything above rolled into one thing and there is no getting away from it ...

A bit of some personal anecdote - 6 months into this year and reaching back into December ... Changes. Many - Circumstantial due to changes and responsibilities in my line of work - Changes to my constitution - Health - Nutrition - Fatigue and anxiety and worry - Yes those 'cares of this world' - Debt and setting my face like a flint to resolve it once and for all, not like in times past where it was some haberdasher combobulation of 'prayer' and yet no [i]action[/i] - Fits and starts, accomplishing precisely nothing - Years of this nonsense. All these things and more by necessity, has driven me beyond my comfort zones and into grappling with something that often challenged me in regards to money matters ...

Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

Am tempted to excerpt even more commentary but it would likely only lead to another rabbit trail or more sparing over [i]words[/i]. I get the point of the matter, of the parable as a whole - This coupled with everything Jesus ever stated about money, it use, it's danger, all these factors, all my recollections, for instance Zac Poonen's excellent extrapolations in a series of sermons - All of it, the goal is to be out of debt and by much due diligence and focus it is now within reach ...

Bear with me that I might get to the greater point of this ... Because of these things I have found myself venturing into and slightly involved in other forums - Financial's and even the market itself being that I have a vested interest granted by my employer - In the past I was a [i]fool[/i] of the highest caliber, not taking gains that would have erased all my debt in one fell swoop. It was part ignorance and undoubtedly a collusion of what I convinced myself was getting the 'greatest value' when it still had a real measure of just plain greed. I blew it, big time - The saying goes, "[i]Bears and Bulls make money, pig's get slaughtered[/i]" - If you can take it rightly, there is a measure of this in the parables Jesus illustrated in the handling of such things ... I made a decision that I would not repeat this again and would force myself to learn and so I began.

Another illustration to get to the heart of matters here. Some of us, maybe many, have decried the abuses and lethargic dumbing down of the intellect (no less the morals) of what television has done to society and even Christians in general. Some of us have detached ourselves from it wholesale, others in lesser forms - The often, common recognition is what is recognized [i]after[/i] one has been away from it for a season - When you return to it [i]then[/i] you see all those things that you couldn't when you were bound up in it.

Here is the application. Here, on SI after so many years of being in a constant 'knee deep' measure - always participating, far too often opinionating and more often left regretting due to taking no time to truly ponder or think through matters - spouting out whatever compulsion is at hand .. to be more away from it than "in" it has been an eye opening experience. Participating on other forums as was mentioned and despite their 'worldliness' and often vulgar choice of nomenclature when the emotions run high - The more intelligent ones I have found are more cordial and are conducted in [i]spirit[/i] far better than what transpires [i]here[/i]. The parallels are quite similar - Old and younger, different levels of expertise and levels of understanding, different cultures, upbringings and backgrounds - Some even profess to be Christians while others will pray for situations effecting one it's members - I will not sit in judgment upon them or bring forth a measuring stick even in my mind to gage them by, I have no impulse to do so and if anything can pray quietly without creating a contest where one is not needed ... it is beyond my main point at any rate. That point is that they are capable of sharing information and [i]taking[/i] criticisms far better than many of us. They don't come unglued or blow up at the slightest or perceived provocation. They are, in the Lord's words, "[i]wiser than the children of light.[/i]

Being somewhat 'away' as I mentioned and coming back with a different purview to the happenings here, everything that Robert outlined above is true. We must recognize this if we are ever to fathom just how our [i]actions[/i] and [i]responses[/i] mainly to each other but also to those things we address are looked upon by these so called 'outsiders'. To be on the outside looking in as it were there is almost a constant grumbling about us, a continual harping and forcing of the [i]letter[/i], the one and same redundant plea that we are missing the very heart of the matter, of the scriptures themselves.

I could not refrain from appealing here especially when I had the same impulse and thought as Robert;

Quote:
You will note that both the Sadducee's, Pharisees and certain of the disciples had a very unloving 'spirit' about them before they received the Holy Spirit.



Moreover and no one will want to hear this but it is the truth - The spirit of the Sadducee's and the Pharisees is what we are often caught up in and we will deny it to the hilt. I think some of us are practically distraught if we don't have something to argue about, to grumble and complain against, not that there isn't much wrong to dispute or make mention of, just the continual dripping, the constant needling and adamancy that is well summed up in the old adage -

[i]A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject[/i]

Looking back on all this from the vantage point that I am currently under 'as if' I was on the outside looking in - I would want no part of it. Warring Christians? Christian Sadducee's and Pharisees? Over and over and over again the Lord had and sparred little when it came to this [i]disposition[/i] and yet it is denied, even championed as right and true and prudent. No! Some of us are so unbalanced and fanatical in our myopic perceptions that we cannot [i]hear[/i] anything short of the redounding sounds of our own thinking ... You can scream to yourself "[i]I don't care[/i]" all you like, that you are merely doing 'the will of the Lord' but you are mistaken and tripped up upon your own words - You just do not care, not like you may think and surely not in the way that you convey matters.

No backing down, no reconsiderations, no humility nor apology - Not "I am wrong", "was wrong" or ever can [i]be[/i] wrong - Everything that challenges or confutes or confounds is dismissed out of hand before it has an entrance into that realm of [i]"Is it I?"[/i]

Enough, I plead that we recognize this and repent of it - I have done my share, regret it and apologize of it before you all. Some of us might do ourselves and others a great service to back away or at least refrain from our advice and opinionating for a season - Take a sabbatical from it all and return with a new perspective - But for the love of God this [i]spirit[/i] must be crucified.



Post script - Billy Graham. A search of the site would produce some perspective and I recall Robert specifically addressing the matter fairly and unequivocally. Like many things, it is never just so simple - He had a [i]whole life[/i] to be considered, not just excerpts of it to be taken apart, at random, forgetting his illness in the end. Rarely would I make a mention without hearing what others have first said in their own words - Even that this was posted in the first place gave me pause - Just one more impulse to contend over ... But am I happy to see it if it can break through this log jam. Unfortunately I am just as sure that the heart of the matter will itself be contended over or just flatly dismissed - Commence arguing as you may, I have no interest and need to hear little other than it's tittle to be drawn away from it. Neil I am sure had the right intention and motivation to present it, to uncover the root of the matter, if only it might be heeded though I am not expectant, nor despondent ...

Let me just say I hope the Lord is as merciful in contrast to those who are not, when it comes to be your turn.



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Mike Balog

 2009/6/14 10:56Profile









 Thank you Mike

and God bless you. Well spoke indeed. I'm so glad that you discerned my intentions were not of ill motivation:

Quote:
Neil I am sure had the right intention and motivation to present it, to uncover the root of the matter,



Because after some of the responses, I was crestfallen, that I might have opened a can of contention, which was decidely not my purpose.

I was blessed by something on this thread and that was to hear one of Jim Cymbala's messages, and that was very edifying, and of much personal profit.

Have a good Lord's day dear brother, neil xo

 2009/6/14 13:48
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Neil,


You are precious and dear also. You, and I, and the others, were made in the image of God. We are all unique and there is only one of each of us.

It is amazing to think that even the very hairs on our head are numbered. That Someone knows how many hairs are on our head. At any time.


May God bless you. May He bless Walter. And Robert, and Ginny, and Chris, and Mike, and Tom, and Jimmy.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/6/14 14:16Profile









 Re: George Carlin is in Hell,Billy Graham going to hell




God used an [b]ass[/b] to get the attention of Balaam, the false prophet, who was on his way to curse Israel. God, though the ass got his attention, when he started talking to Balaam. Eventhough Balaam did not curse the Israelites, later he suggested a way to Balak by which the Jews might be cursed by God anyway:

“14. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.”

What was Balaam's reward for his disobedience to God? In a battle between Israel and the Midianites Balaam was slain while fighting on the side of Balak (Num. 31:8).

So, God can warn us today, by the words of a man who could be much like the ass of Balaam. What is Phelps saying to us? God can use anything or anyone to reveal HIS Truth. Is what Phelps saying the TRUTH about Billy Graham? All we have to do is compare what Phelps is saying about Graham, and compare what Graham has said himself, and compare both to the anvil, God's Word, which sorts out truth from error.


[color=990000]YOU BE THE JUDGE, as you witness Billy Graham and his descent from a true Christian believer in 1949 to the apostate that he is today:[/color]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUDKehwFWjg]Billy Graham 1949, before his fall from grace[/url]


[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sow0gfXXHGY]Billy Graham, what has happened? What is going on????[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC2WPR7q4pU]Wider Mercy Salvation- Billy Graham exposed[/url]


[color=990000]Is Billy Graham a Christian?
It is hard for anyone to believe that Billy Graham is not a Christian. The world press loves him, as well as the Liberal Christians.

Here are some of the points which some fundamental Christians, who hold that the Bible is our sole authority for all matters of faith and practice, have cited the actual "problems" with Billy Graham's ministry: [/color]


[url=http://members.fortunecity.com/sitaram/page142.htm] Is Billy Graham a Christian? [/url]

[b]Billy Graham accepts degrees from Catholic colleges and says the Catholic gospel is the same as his own

Billy Graham has turned thousands of converts over to apostate churches

Billy Graham thinks the Pope is a great evangelist

Billy Graham thinks there is special power in infant baptism

Billy Graham does not believe hell is a place of literal fiery torment

Billy Graham invites Catholic bishops onto his platform to bless those who come forward at his invitations

Billy Graham praises Christ-denying modernists

Billy Graham has promoted practically every perverted Bible version to appear in the last four decades

Billy Graham's Disobedience To The Word of God
"And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldst thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord" (2 Chronicles 19:2)

We have begun sending out articles from time to time by e-mail to those who desire to receive them. Many of these are articles from the "Digging in the Walls" section of O Timothy magazine. In October we sent out the article from Volume 12 Issue 9 on Jerry Falwell supporting Billy Graham. That e-mail posting was in turn sent out to a Baptist news group, which is a discussion group on the Internet. Many of the responses we received back from that public posting were very negative. In reading these, I was impressed anew at the ignorance of the average Christian (I use that term in the broadest sense) today. Many of those who responded were completely ignorant of the fact that Billy Graham has sent multitudes of converts back to the Roman Catholic Church or that he praised modernists. These things were not done in the dark, yet many Christians are entirely ignorant of these things. Why? The average Christian "minister" today is a coward whose goal is to fit in the ecumenical scene and to make people feel good about themselves rather than to preach the truth regardless of the cost. The Bible describes these men as "dumb dogs." What good is a watch dog that will not bark? If ever there were an hour in which preachers need to lift the voice against the error which is on every side, it is today. But what do we find? Dumb dogs.

In the article on Falwell supporting Graham we mentioned a number of things of which Dr. Graham is guilty. Following is the documentation to each of these charges. I realize that most of the readers of O Timothy know these facts, but I also realize that it is not always a simple matter to put your hands upon accurate documentation. I trust the following is helpful in giving an answer to those who challenge the veracity of those attempting today to defend the Faith Once Delivered to the Saints:

Billy Graham accepts degrees from Catholic colleges and says the Catholic gospel is the same as his own[/b]

On Nov. 21, 1967, an honorary degree was conferred on Graham by the Catholic priests who run Belmont Abbey College, North Carolina, during an Institute for Ecumenical Dialogue. The Gastonia Gazette reported:

"After receiving the honorary degree of doctor of humane letter (D.H.L.) from the Abbey, Graham noted the significance of the occasion--" a time when Protestants and Catholics could meet together and greet each other as brothers, whereas 10 years ago they could not,' he said.

"The evangelist's first sermon at a Catholic institution was at the Abbey, in 1963, and his return Tuesday was the climax to this week's Institute for Ecumenical Dialogue, a program sponsored in part by the Abbey and designed to promote understanding among Catholic and Protestant clergymen of the Gaston-Mecklenburg area.

"Graham, freshly returned from his Japanese Crusade, said he 'knew of no greater honor a North Carolina preacher, reared just a few miles from here, could have than to be presented with this degree. I'm not sure but what this could start me being called "Father Graham," ' he facetiously added.

"Graham said... 'Finally, the way of salvation has not changed. I know how the ending of the book will be. The gospel that built this school and the gospel that brings me here tonight is still the way to salvation" ("Belmont Abbey Confers Honorary Degree," Paul Smith, Gazette staff reporter, The Gastonia Gazette, Gastonia, North Carolina, Nov. 22, 1967).

[b]Billy Graham has turned thousands of converts over to apostate churches[/b]

The evidence for this is overwhelming and has been widely documented. We have documented this in our book Flirting with Rome: Evangelical Entanglement with Roman Catholicism (Volume 1), available from Way of Life Literature (1219 N. Harns Rd,. Oak Harbor, WA 98277). As early as Sept. 21, 1957, Graham said in an interview with the San Francisco News,[color=990000] "Anyone who makes a decision at our meetings is seen later and referred to a local clergyman, Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish." In 1983, The Florida Catholic (Sept. 2, 1983) reported of the Orlando crusade: "Names of Catholics who had make decisions for Christ were provided at that meeting by Rick Marshall of the Graham organization." The report said the names of 600 people had been turned over to the Catholic Church. In 1984, at the Vancouver, British Columbia crusade, the vice-chairman of the organizing committee, David Cline of Bringhouse United Church, said, "If Catholic step forward there will be no attempt to convert them and their names will be given to the Catholic church nearest their homes" (Vancouver Sun, Oct. 5, 1984). In 1987 a Catholic priest, Donald Willette of St. Jude's Church, was a supervisor of the 6,600 counselors for the Denver crusade. Willette reported that from one service alone 500 cards of individuals were referred to St. Thomas More Roman Catholic Church in Englewood, a suburb of Denver (Wilson Ewin, Evangelism: The Trojan Horse of the 1990s). In 1989, Michael Seed, Ecumenical Advisor to (Catholic) Cardinal Hume, said of Graham's London crusade: "Those who come forward for counseling during a Mission evening in June, if they are Roman Catholic, will be directed to a Roman Catholic 'nurture-group' under Roman Catholic counselors in their home area" (John Ashbrook, New Neutralism II, Mentor, Ohio: Here I Stand Books, 1992, p.35). By September 1992, the Catholic archdiocese of Portland, Oregon, had set a goal to supply 6,000 of the 10,000 counselors needed for the Graham crusade. All Catholics responding to the alter call were channeled to Catholic churches. These are just a few examples of the hundreds which could be given. [/color]

[color=990000]Billy Graham thinks the Pope is a great evangelist :[/color]

In an interview with The Saturday Evening Post, Jan.-Feb. 1980, Graham described the visit of John Paul II to America with these words: "The pope came as a statesman and a pastor, but I believe he also sees himself coming as an evangelist... The pope sought to speak to the spiritual hunger of our age in the same way Christians throughout the centuries have spoken to the spiritual yearnings of every age--by pointing people to Christ." Foundation magazine, Vol. V, Issue 5, 1984, reported that Graham made this statement about the Pope's address in Vancouver, B.C. in 1983: "I'll tell you--that was just about as straight an evangelical address as I've ever heard. It was tremendous."

[color=990000]Billy Graham thinks there is special power in infant baptism:[/color]

In a 1961 interview with the Lutheran Standard, Graham said: "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant... we cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian, through infant baptism" (Lutheran Standard, October 27, 1961).

[color=990000]Billy Graham does not believe hell is a place of literal fiery torment:[/color]

The Orlando (Florida) Sentinel for April 10, 1983, asked Billy Graham: "Surveys tell us that 85% of Americans believe in heaven, but only 65% believe in hell. Why do you think so many Americans don't accept the concept of hell?" He replied: "I think that hell essentially is separation from God forever. And that is the worst hell that I can think of. But I think people have a hard time believing God is going to allow people to burn in literal fire forever. I think the fire that is mentioned in the Bible is a burning thirst for God that can never be quenched."

"Hell is not the most popular of preaching topics. I don't like to preach on it. But I must if I am to proclaim the whole counsel of God. We must not avoid warning of it. The most outspoken messages on hell, and the most graphic references to it, came from Jesus Himself. ...Jesus used three words to describe hell. ...The third word that He used is 'fire.' Jesus used this symbol over and over. This could be literal fire, as many believe. Or IT COULD BE SYMBOLIC. ...I've often thought that this fire could possibly be a burning thirst for God that is never quenched. What a terrible fire that would be-- never to find satisfaction, joy, or fulfillment!" (A Biblical Standard For Evangelists, Billy Graham, A commentary on the 15 Affirmations made by participants at the International Conference for Itinerant Evangelists in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, July 1983, Worldwide Publications, Minneapolis, Minnesota, pages 45-47).

[color=990000]Billy Graham invites Catholic bishops onto his platform to bless those who come forward at his invitations[/color]

The Roman Catholic bishop of Sao Paulo, Brazil, stood beside Graham during his 1962 crusade in that city, and blessed those who came forward at the invitation. Graham said this illustrated that "something tremendous, an awakening of reform and revival within Christianity" was happening (Daily Journal, International Falls, Minnesota, Oct. 29, 1963, cited by the New York Times, Nov. 9. 1963).

[color=990000]Billy Graham praises Christ-denying modernists[/color]

This has been widely documented for 40 years. In Graham's San Francisco Crusade, 1959, he honored the notorious liberal Bishop James A. Pike by having him on the platform and to lead in prayer. He also appeared at Grace Cathedral with Pike. Yet Pike had written in LOOK magazine, expressing himself as not believing in the fundamentals of the faith. Pike, in a pastoral letter that was to be read in all the Episcopal Churches of his diocese, stated that "Religious myth is one of the avenues of faith and has an important place in the communication of the Gospel." He spoke of the "myth of the Garden of Eden." He said, "the virgin birth... is a myth which churchmen should be free to accept or reject..."

In Graham's 1963 Los Angeles Crusade, Methodist Bishop Gerald Kennedy was chairman of the crusade committee. yet, Kennedy has denied just about every one of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. His printed endorsement is found on the jacket of Nels Ferre's book, The Sun And The Umbrella. In this book Ferre said, "Jesus never was nor became God." ... Ferre says the idea of Christ's pre-existence "is the nature of the grand myth which at its heart is idolatry." Ferre wrote another book entitled The Christian Understanding Of God. In this book he said, "We have no way of knowing, even, that Jesus was sinless." In this book he promotes the theory that Jesus may have been the son of a German soldier. Yet, Graham's campaign chairman endorsed Gerre and his book. In fact, Graham said on August 21, 1963, "Bishop Kennedy is one of the ten greatest Christian preachers in America." The first Sunday of the Crusade, Graham took ten minutes to eulogize Dr. E. Stanley Jones, who is a deluxe modernist and proves it in his book on Mahatma Gandhi (E.L. Bynum, Why We Cannot Support The Billy Graham Crusade, Lubbock, Texas: Plains Baptist Challenger)

[color=990000]Graham's attitude toward modernists is evident in his pleasant relationship with the World Council of Churches. He has attended all but two of the WCC's General Assemblies. Consider the following statements taken from the telegram sent in 1983 by Graham to Philip Potter, General Secretary of the World Council of Churches. Dr. Graham did not appear at the WCC Sixth Assembly in 1983 because of prior engagements: "Dear Philip: Your gracious and generous invitation to speak twice in Vancouver was deeply appreciated. ...I have tried to juggle my schedule but it is just too heavy at this late date for me to make the drastic changes that would be necessary for me to be in Vancouver. This will be only the second general assembly of the WCC that I have had to miss. I will certainly miss seeing you and many other old friends and fellowshipping with those from all over the world..." (FOUNDATION, Vol. IV, Issue IV, Los Osos, Calif.: Fundamental Evangelistic Association, 1983). We should note here that Philip Potter is an apostate Christian leader. He does not believe that those in non-Christian religions are lost, and he advocates violent communist movements! [/color]

These are a mere three examples of Graham's habit of honoring wicked, Bible-denying modernists.

[color=990000]Billy Graham has promoted practically every perverted Bible version to appear in the last four decades![/color]

In 1952 Billy Graham accepted a copy of the modernistic Revised Standard Version and told a crowd of 20,000 people: "These scholars have probably given us the most nearly perfect translation in English. While there may be room for disagreement in certain areas of the translation, yet this new version should supplement the King James Version and make Bible reading a habit throughout America" (Graham, cited by Perry Rockwood, God's Inspired Preserved Bible, Halifax, N.S.: People's Gospel Hour, nd., p. 15)

Graham's endorsement of the Revised Standard Version foreshadowed Evangelicalism's capitulation to the endless stream of modern versions. Graham has endorsed practically every new version to appear on the scene, no matter how flippant and unfaithful.

In his autobiography, modernist Bible paraphraser J.B. Phillips (1906-1982) stated that Billy Graham spoke highly of his work as early as 1952: "I think it was in 1952 that I received a visit from Dr. Billy Graham with his charming and intelligent wife. 'I want to thank you, Dr. Phillips,' he began, 'for Letters to Young Churches'" (J.B. Phillips, The Price of Success, Wheaton: Harold Shaw Pub., 1984, p. 116).

Graham almost single-handedly rescued the Living Bible from oblivion. "The Living Bible might be called 'The Billy Graham Bible,' for it was he who made it the success that it is. According to Time magazine, July 24, 1972, Billy Graham ordered 50,000 copies of the Epistles, and a short time later ordered some 450,000 more, and still later ordered 600,000 special paperback versions for his autumn television crusade in 1972. From that time on, orders began to pour in" (M.L. Moser, Jr., The Case Against the Living Bible, Little Rock: Challenge Press, p.9).

That was only the beginning of Graham's love affair with the Living Bible. At Amsterdam '86, Graham allowed Living Bibles International to distribute free copies of the Living Bible in 40 differed languages to the 8,000 evangelists in attendance (Light of Live, Bombay, India, Sept. 1986, p.23). Graham distributed 10,000 copies of the Living Bible to people who attended his Mission England Crusade (Australian Beacon, No. 241, Aug. 1986). In 1987, Graham appeared in television ads for The Book, a condensed version of the Living Bible. He said it "reads like a novel."

In an ad which appeared in a 1991 issue of Charisma magazine, Graham said: "I read The Living Bible because in this book I have read the age-abiding truths of the scriptures with renewed interest and inspiration. The Living Bible communicates the message of Christ to our generation" (Charisma, March 1991, p. 98).

[color=990000]Billy Graham is also one of the men who first helped make the perverted Good News for Modern Man (Today's English Version) popular by distributing it through his Association. Graham "called it an excellent translation over nationwide television from his campaign in Anaheim, California." It was then distributed by the Grason Company of Minneapolis, the distributors of Billy Graham materials (M.L. Moser, Jr., The Devil's Masterpiece, Little Rock: Challenge Press, 1970, p. 80). The Good News for Modern Man replaces the word "blood" with "death" in speaking of the atonement of Jesus Christ, and corrupted practically every passage dealing with Christ's deity. The translator of the Good News for Modern Man, Robert Bratcher, does not believe that Jesus Christ is God. [/color]

[color=990000]As far as Fred Phelps is concerned, God can use him the same way he used an ass to warn Balmam. If we listen, like Balam did not, and compare what he is telling us with God's Word, the Anvil, and we find out that what he is saying is true---then we will personally escape the danger that is the watered down doctrine of Billy Graham (as seen above), and not the Doctrine of Jesus Christ, as found in His Bible[/color]

Sincerely,

Walter

 2009/6/14 18:15









 Re: Dont worry Walter,

[b]Falwell[/b] isn't getting off the hook either according to Fred Phelps, or should I say "Fraudwell" as Phelps calls him.

Quote:
In October we sent out the article from Volume 12 Issue 9 on Jerry Falwell supporting Billy Graham



not to worry, not to worry at all, Phelps is on the job as watchman, and I hope your not calling Phelps an "ass", as Phelps says that anyone opposing him OR the Westboro Baptist Church is committing the unpardonable sin of blasphmey of the Holy Ghost.

Phelps prounounces judgement on Jerry Falwell:

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8682089528957352638]Jerry Falwell Splits Hell Wide Open![/url]

sincerely, neil

and yes, and just so you dont think Phelps is slacking off he also cast Jerry Ford and Saddam Hussein into hell.

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1987131553894867469]Ford and Hussein BOTH in Hell[/url]

 2009/6/14 18:53
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Sister Ginny

Quote:
the "heroic journey motif", and its set 150 years in a very recognizable future,



Now THIS will require a hefty amount of imagination and inspiration! What comes to my mind is the "Left Behind" series by Tim LaHaye and Jenkins. I tried reading these books but could never get into it. Our son got the movie and tried to interest us in it and it created such a unrest in my spirit I could hardly stand it. Actually, I said nothing but Jonathan noticed it so in a act of courtesy stopped the thing. The silence that followed was the most pleasing sound I heard since the movie started!

I do not know how old you are but I suspect you are in your 40s, nearing 50...can you think back 40 years and recall what life was like? that common sense ruled the day: the newspapers? the media? but that ever so slowly it was attacked by perversions of all kinds so that now these perversions are the norm and the 'church' has embraced them all in the name of forgiveness/acceptance? Brother, I often time wonder how much worse can it ever get?! Today perversions are taught to children, concepts one never heard discussed when I was a child...Lord have mercy for the children!

I will quit my rambling...God bless you with this book - keep us posted, sounds like an interesting undertaking.

One more thing - about why does God allow fanatics like the Phelps to exist unchecked?

Many years ago I asked the same question about the Amish. I am very well acquainted with their culture, theology and runspringa. This sowing of the wild oats is so ungodly, so sinful and it met with the approval of the leadership - in some places. In other places the bishops denounced it but seemed powerless to stop it. Years later I saw something that heretofore was not apparent. I saw that their austere lifestyle, their eschewing of modern conveniences is it itself a powerful ministry, testimony to the rest of us moderns. It informs us that we do not need all these modern gadgets to live. If they can live without, so can I. They grow their own food, be it fowl, animals or fruits and veggies. Somehow we moderns need to witness a counter culture and how it still does work in face of rampant materialism that exists to get our last dollar. (There are Amish that are godly - they just do not get the attention the others do.)

My opinion...

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2009/6/14 19:49Profile









 Re:



Natan, I wonder if you have even read my posts. [b]You are bound and determined to slay the messenger, and at the same time, silence his message. [/b]

As believers, we are commanded to compare the doctrine of others to the standard, the Holy
Bible.

I have compared Billy Graham's personal position on the doctrine of Christ since 1949 in my post. The only time he (Billy Graham) agreed with the Doctrine of Jesus Christ was in 1949, based upon what I posted.

Since that time he has fallen into apostacy.

This is the definition of Apostacy from Websters 1828 Dictionary of the English Language:

APOS'TASY, n. [Gr. a defection, to depart.]
1. An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.
2. The desertion from a party to which one has adhered.
3. Among physicians, the throwing off of exfoliated or fractured bone, or the various solution of disease.
4. An abscess.

APOS'TATE, n. [Gr.]
One who has forsaken the church, sect or profession to which he before adhered. In its original sense, applied to one who has abandoned his religion; but correctly applied also to one who abandons a political or other party.

APOS'TATE, a. False; traitorous.

APOSTAT'ICAL, a. After the manner of an apostate.

APOS'TATIZE, v.i. To abandon one's profession or church; to forsake principles or faith which one has professed; or the party to which one has been attached.

APOS'TATIZING, ppr. Abandoning a church, profession, sect or party.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


I will try to make it clear and simple.

[b]Instead of killing the messenger,and at the same time killing the message, check the message against God's Word, the Bible. Does the Bible teach that everyone goes to heaven, like Billy Graham says? No, it does not, so Billy has created his own Gospel.

Does Billy think that the Roman Catholic's, who are never taught the requirements of salvation, think they are all saved and going to heaven? He does, based upon his personal relationship with the Catholic Church since the early 1950's. If you ever attended one of his "revivals", and you were a catholic, and were convicted of your sin during the service, and went forward to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, afterwards they asked you to fill out a slip of paper, with your name & address, phone number and Faith. 2 Weeks to 2 months later you would be contacted by a "Catholic" Church in your area![/b]

[b]What do Catholics believe? That the sacraments save them!!:

[url=http://www.historicalchristian.com/my_weblog/the-catholic-gospel-what-is-it-really.html]Historical Catholic Gospel[/url]

This is from the Catholic website above:

Background

What is the Catholic gospel? Did you know that it is not the same as the Protestant gospel, that there are key – and profound – differences, and that the Catholic gospel is the authentic gospel? If someone were to ask you, could you explain it to them? Could you explain the differences?

In part, it is the difference between imputed and infused grace, between sanctifying and fully sacramental grace, between simply believing in Jesus to go to heaven, and truly becoming the dwelling place of God, here and now, during this life, through union with Christ in the sacraments.

However, this is what is required to be Christian:

Romans 10:9 " 9. [b] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


So, Catholoc Doctrine is at odds with God's Word, the Bible, and has no "saving" knowledge
or practice to allow sinners to be saved.

Neil, at first I thought you posted this to bring up dialogue against Phelps, but actually you brought it up to slay the messenger (Phelps) instead of looking at what he had to say and comparing it with the Bible.

Phelps is "right on" as far as Billy Graham is concerned. Anyone who waters down the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or changes it will be spewed out of His mouth.

Is he right on Jerry Falwell? Look into that and post it for us. Compare Falwells' views with the accusations of Phelps. Is he right or wrong. Did Falwell water down God's Word, or did he stay true to it?[/b]


Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

Natan4Jesus wrote:
[b]Falwell[/b] isn't getting off the hook either according to Fred Phelps, or should I say "Fraudwell" as Phelps calls him.
Quote:
In October we sent out the article from Volume 12 Issue 9 on Jerry Falwell supporting Billy Graham



not to worry, not to worry at all, Phelps is on the job as watchman, and I hope your not calling Phelps an "ass", as Phelps says that anyone opposing him OR the Westboro Baptist Church is committing the unpardonable sin of blasphmey of the Holy Ghost.

Phelps prounounces judgement on Jerry Falwell:

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8682089528957352638]Jerry Falwell Splits Hell Wide Open![/url]

sincerely, neil

and yes, and just so you dont think Phelps is slacking off he also cast Jerry Ford and Saddam Hussein into hell.

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1987131553894867469]Ford and Hussein BOTH in Hell[/url][/quote

 2009/6/14 21:46
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Phelps is "right on" as far as Billy Graham is concerned.



Is his spirit right on?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/6/14 23:17Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
You are bound and determined to slay the messenger, and at the same time, silence his message.



We have an obligation not just to reckon with the merits of any argument, but to discern the spirit by which that message is being presented.

[color=000066]Let your moderation be known to all men. The Lord is at hand. (Php. 4:5)[/color]

To defend the immoderate behavior of Phelps, in my estimation, is unconscionable and to partake of his evil deeds. There is absolutely no connection between a great many of his malicious words and the spirit of his words and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[color=000066]Let your speech be [u]always[/u] with grace, having been seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. (Colossians 4:6)[/color]


Moreover, the use of profane language in connection with the Gospel is unbiblical at best and blasphemous at worst.

[color=000066] But now also [u]put off[/u] all these things: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, [u]shameful speech out of your mouth.[/u] (Colossians 3:8)[/color]

It is a strange thing that a man could sit in judgment of these other men and yet clearly is in violation of all three of the afore mentioned passages. It seems to me that we ought to get our own door step right before we go sitting in the place of God and damning men's souls for eternity?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/6/14 23:36Profile









 Re:

Mike writes.....


"We will know them NOT by their willingness to preach righteousness, holiness, hell, judgment, etc. but by their fruits. Do men gather grapes among prickly stabbing thorns?

We must know that the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. The FIRE of anger is not the FIRE of the Holy Spirit. When one cannot discern the difference between anger and unction there is a move into the earthy, sensual and demonic. It seems to me to be the fire of hell that is being used to PREACH hell. Beloved, this ought not so to be."

Amen brother.............Frank

 2009/6/15 0:23





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