| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | TaylorOtwell wrote:
Quote:
Secondly, your assertions that we somehow possess the same nature of Jesus before he was transfigured is not Biblical. Nobody on this earth has possessed the same nature of Jesus Christ. He was God of God, of one essence with the Father.
Then John 3.3 and 5 cannot ever apply to you.
Sorry for not responding to the rest of your post because I find it a mis-contruing of mine. |
|  2009/5/12 15:21 | | TaylorOtwell
Member
Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas
| | Re: | | Quote:
Then John 3.3 and 5 cannot ever apply to you.
Sorry for not responding to the rest of your post because I find it a mis-contruing of mine.
Only if your interpretation of these verses is correct, which it isn't.
I see Ezekiel 36:26-27 and John 3:3 speaking of the same event, the regeneration. Ezekiel 36:26-27 says nothing of receiving a divine nature or essence , however, it speaks of having the laws of God written on our hearts and us receiving a new heart.
John 3:3 and 5 also say nothing of receiving the divine nature in its essence. We only partake in the divine nature in the sense that we begin to exhibit various attributes of the nature of God after we are regenerated. For instance, love, mercy, forgiveness, etc.
With care in Christ,
Taylor
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Taylor Otwell
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| | 2009/5/12 15:30 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Oh, ok, well, I'll leave your dismissal of it all, the words of Jesus and anything of the rest this thread to others to address. I am done with it. |
| | 2009/5/12 15:48 | |
| | Re: | | Brother Intense, I do believe you have "intensely" searched for HIM.
The only problem I see is that you have read far too many Authors in that great search.
I believe you may mean something in line with this following verse - correct me if I'm wrong - 1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: [b]because as He is, so are we in this world.[/b]
Or when He said - "I Am The Light of the World" and then said "You are the light of the world" and similar verses.
I 'believe' you are referring to The "Spirit of Christ" dwelling within us - but some Author has it that "we" are now "Divine." To have Divinity indwelling us does not make us Divine. But we do have Jesus' earthly life as our Example, because He emptied Himself and became dependent on The Father by or through the Spirit to give Him the words to do and the acts that He did and gave us the way to walk, in that same dependent way for everything, as HE did.
I put the blame on the Authors.
I believe "The WORD of GOD" is from Eternity past to Eternity future, Whom we now call Jesus.
HE returns in Rev 19 with "a new Name" yet retains the Name "The Word of GOD" forever - The Logos.
If as that article you posted said, you only believe that HE became "the Son" at conception - there are many scholars that have no problem with that.
Adam Clarke for one says that after the Millenial Reign that HE will be ONE GOD again as HE was in the beginning of beginnings - which means 'no beginning' or eternity past.
HE will always be Eloheim - Triune - but I'll quote Clarke here to have it worded better -
Quote: 1Co 15:28
[i]"The Son also himself be subject - When the administration of the kingdom of grace is finally closed; when there shall be no longer any state of probation, and consequently no longer need of a distinction between the kingdom of grace and the kingdom of glory; then the Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and God be all in all: there remaining no longer any distinction in the persons of the glorious Trinity, as acting any distinct or separate parts in either the kingdom of grace, or the kingdom of glory, and so the one infinite essence shall appear undivided and eternal. And yet, as there appears to be a personality essentially in the infinite Godhead, that personality must exist eternally; but how this shall be we can neither tell nor know till that time comes in which we shall See Him as He Is. 1Jo_3:2."[/i]
As seen in in the 'singular' personal pronouns -
Rev 21:1-7 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, [b]the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be 'with' them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
and I will be his God,
and he shall be My son."
Brother, you took offense the last time I posted to you where No offense was intended at all and I mean No offense at all again in saying that I'm praying that you will believe that HE Loves you greatly and has promised you John 16:13 without the aid of human Authors. Just His Word Alone and quiet time with Him, until you actually feel and experience His Great Love.
All of His Very Best to you.
In His Peace. |
| | 2009/5/12 16:30 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
Brother Intense, I do believe you have "intensely" searched for HIM.
The only problem I see is that you have read far too many Authors in that great search.
I believe you may mean something in line with this following verse - correct me if I'm wrong - 1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: [b]because as He is, so are we in this world.[/b]
Or when He said - "I Am The Light of the World" and then said "You are the light of the world" and similar verses.
I 'believe' you are referring to The "Spirit of Christ" dwelling within us - but some Author has it that "we" are now "Divine." To have Divinity indwelling us does not make us Divine.
I put the blame on the Authors.
Nor did I ever say that it did. So I can't see this from you as being based upon anything else than that 'wrong' assumption. However, why do think Jesus would declare that about us if we were not to or were already possessing, by virtue of our new birth, what He possessed? Where would the unction come from, self?
Keep this in mind: The devil wants to get to the Life of the Son of God; God's Nature in you. For him to succeed, he must go through your human nature. Consider now how Jesus protected that Life from above when in his temptations [demonic solicitations] and how it is that we are given the same power to function as He did.
Please don't blame any author in this as there are only a few in my life and I find none that have it all down pat, including Chambers. I believe God has it designed that way to keep us seeking and searching. . . . :-) |
| | 2009/5/12 16:50 | | sscr01
Member
Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275
| | Re: | | We were in Adam, when he sinned. |
| | 2009/5/12 17:10 | Profile | clintstone
Member
Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.
| | Re: | | Hello , r banks , good post , i posted in this thred on 5/8/ at 18;17 a message from the Holy Ghost came to me for you personally , It shall surely come about ! God bless with His uplifting into Himself ,, always in Love , Clint.
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Clint Demoret
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| | 2009/5/12 17:14 | Profile | clintstone
Member
Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.
| | Re: | | Hello , alive -to-God you seem to be able to articulate your thoughts well . I am just posting here to say welcome to sermonindex and God bless you with abundant Joy , Clint .
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Clint Demoret
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| | 2009/5/12 17:20 | Profile |
| | Re: Adam's sin ... our guilt? | | Greetings, Intense,
Quote:
The man Jesus was begotten . . .human
Yes. I agree. But we agreed on this about 6 pages ago.Quote:
That is what you refuse to accept in the face of all the scripture presented you.
I have not rejected any scripture. I reject your presentation of the meaning of the scriptures you selectively include in your off-beat theology. Anyone can leave out a verse to make other verses say something slightly different, but you have left out a catalogue of verses. With respect to this:Quote:
Not in the least, when they don't pertain to issue being discussed
I sincerely ask you to return to my post on p23, and simply list for me, all the verses which you believe are irrelevant to showing that the Son was [u]with[/u] the Father, before He became Man. After that, we can discuss them properly.
I can accept that you honestly don't believe them, or don't believe about them the way I do, but simply to reject them [u]all[/u] from the discussion, without explaining why you do, seems peremptory (if I may say so).Quote:
I have asked many questions of you, you have conveniently ignored.
We have discussed already, the question I did not wish to answer, and I have answered it as well. Please also, then, (since I only joined the discussion on p17), add the questions which you believe I have not answered, remembering that I'm only part way replying to your post on p24. With reference to that, I will comment on the next part.Quote:
Our cross is, our flesh, the avenue to the world. We take it up every day, don't we?
Having said that: You are, in your present thinking, denying that the Nature of God within you, as being a divine Nature, the same Nature as Jesus had when He was born.
It is a moot point whether the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, had the same 'nature' before He was crucified, as after He rose from the dead triumphant over sin and the devil. As Man, He was the Victor, having proved Himself able to not sin before He died.
We, however, have to die in Him, before we can [u]not sin[/u], which capacity is not because we have become 'divine', but because He has slain the enemy. In Him, (as I mentioned previously), we are dead - including our flesh, just as His flesh died on the cross - and from thence springs our victory over sin, if we will reckon ourselves dead as Paul explains in Romans 6.
This explanation - which you are free to reject of course - is why I (for one) do not see the Mount of Transfiguration as the pinnacle of Christ's accomplishment, while the terrible day of His death still lay ahead; and Luke implies as much in the brief account he gives of the discussion between Jesus, Moses and Elijah: Luke 9:31.
To summarise, if I have the Holy Spirit in me now, the spirit of adoption and somship, it is because Jesus died and rose again; not because of what the disciples saw and heard on the Mount of Transfiguration.Quote:
However, this one I will ask again: When was Jesus, while on Earth, ever called "Everlasting Father"? How about, "Emmanuel", "Wonderful Couselor", "Mighty God"?
Where in Isaiah (or elsewhere in the Old Testament, does it say He would be called these things before His death? Doesn't it say '[u]shall be[/u] called'?
Just for the record, He could not become the Prince of Peace until He had overcome Satan as the Lord of Hosts. That's the reason He wasn't called that one, during His ministry before the cross.
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| | 2009/5/12 17:32 | |
| | Re: Adam's sin...our guilt? | | Hi Clint,
Your welcome is welcome. Thank you! :-D As to the articulation of my thoughts, I've been a member here before under a different name, now one of the many 'anonymous', so I've had a little practice in the past, but there's plenty of room for improvement... ;-) |
| | 2009/5/12 17:39 | |
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