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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4537


Is there even a proper formula to prayer? Jesus set the example in the Lord's prayer, but I don't think that we are confined by a certain set of words.

We can simply and sincerely talk to God.



 2009/4/26 3:17Profile

Joined: 2009/4/24
Posts: 6



jlosinski wrote:
[i](Wherefore he is able to SAVE THEM to the uttermost that come unto GOD BY HIM, seeing he ever liveth to make INTERCESSION FOR THEM.) Hes praying for the lost (THEM). Hes interceding for those he bought with a price. This is the priesthood of Christ. [/i]

Is the above in the context of Limited Atonement/Unconditional Election?

Looking at the context of the preceding verses in Hebrews, it states that Jesus has an unchanging priesthood (vs. 24), which is perpetual "...ever liveth to make intercession for them". This is contrasted against earthly priests in vs. 23. In that sense, as He is the unchanging priest, He is also the perpetual sacrifice, offered once for sin. This sacrificial atonement is only made effectual by faith (Romans 3:25) which the unregenerate do not possess. Christ is also referred to as the mediator of a better covenant in Hebrews 8:6. This better covenant is obviously referring to salvation and goes on to quote that amazing prophesy from Jeremiah 31. An unregenerate person cannot partake of the new covenant mediated by Christ unless he is born again, therefore Jesus does not intercede on behalf of rebellious sinners. Look at John 3:18, 19; How can an unbeliever be under condemnation, if, according to your statement, they have Christ as their intercessor? Perhaps Romans 8:1-4 is wrong and no one is under condemnation, but that would assume that John 3:18,19 is wrong.

I may be completely misunderstanding what you are trying to convey, if I am I apologize, I'm making my case, and am simply curious how you understand Christ's role as intercessor.

O.k Let me put it this way. He's praying for their salvation. All of them. Look at it again. Heb.7:25. Thats the way it sounds to me. He stands inbetween them and the Father as the one high priest that can bring them into the Holy of Holys. Just let that election predestination stuff go. I'm, not talking about that. That stuff makes things more complicated than it should be. My own opinion. I, as well, could be completely wrong.

 2009/4/26 7:22Profile


[b]Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which [i]shall[/i] believe on Me through their word[/b]

"The Elect" are those whom GOD "foreknew" Would or Will come to HIM - being Omniscient - HE 'knew' before creation those who would come to Him. So He has and does pray for The Elect who are now saved ["EVER liveth - to save the 'uttermost'" + Heb 4:14-16] and those who are yet to come as well.

Does that help?

Well, It made me happy Again on this thread.

Thanks Dom! :-)

 2009/4/26 8:34

Joined: 2008/8/4
Posts: 201


yay chris!! i'm glad for what you wrote!

 2009/4/26 12:43Profile

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