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 Re:

Then don't participate on threads that make you want to vomit. :-P


I'm much more concerned with what makes HIM vomit.

I don't think anyone's going to be judged for being there on the 15th and my main point was ... what constitutes the "lukewarm" that makes HIM vomit?

I asked earlier - where do we spend most of our activism - on what issues and our thought life?

I'm afraid that I've heard that christians vote their "pocket books" as much as the world does.

Now 'that' would be extremely sad if true.

And which type threads do we spend the most pages on?


Seems to me the most complaining comes from those who seldom visit the Devotional & Articles Sections but always drift toward the debate threads, or start them and then complain about them after being on them for so many pages. :-o

 2009/4/20 15:00









 maybe

God will answer my prayer, and this thread will die the DEATH it so richly deserves.

 2009/4/20 15:25









 Re: maybe

Quote:
God will answer my prayer, and this thread will die the DEATH it so richly deserves.



I agree, F.W.! ;-)

Krispy

 2009/4/20 15:40
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re: maybe

Haha... preach it Krispy and Nathan.



Well said, the both of you!

 2009/4/20 16:05Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone.


I think that the passages that Heartsong shared are relavant, but could also give us an opporunity to consider this in a larger context.


Before this, in Acts chapter 19(EDIT: see Acts 19:21), it seems as that Paul had purposed and was being led by God to go to Rome. And later the Lord Himself told Paul how he would go there(Acts 23:11).



Did he then purposely appeal to Ceasar so that he could go there? Maybe not(Acts 28:19).


Did all of these events, his own prayers and the prayers of the saints(Rom 15:30-33), the plot by his own countrymen against him(Acts 23:12-16), the shipwreck(Acts 27:21-26), and all else, did these things work to bring him to where God had intended him to go?




I think that if we may be willing to say that God has been pleased to raise a wicked governement to chastise us, we could also be willing to say that God had granted a form of governement that gave its citizens a voice in its formation and future and direction.


The Lord Jesus said that to whom much is given, much would be required, and that it is nescessary of us, to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/4/20 20:04Profile









 Re:

A miracle type [url=http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?s=7ef47a32d5137c8696d5940b62cbdbbd&t=57562]tea party.[/url]

It's either His will for you to 'go' or it's not. :-)

 2009/4/20 22:43
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi appolus…

I know that a couple of brothers are praying for an end to this thread, but I just wanted to address a couple of things before it goes.

Quote:
So brother, if you want to thrash around in the world, then that is your walk and you answer to Him, not to me. I will not be entangled in the things of the world.


I’m not sure that I follow what you’re saying. Do you really think that those of us who feel the liberty (or even calling) to vote or participate in rallies that voice our concern about how elected officials choose to tax us are “thrashing around in the world?” If so, I am concerned that you misunderstand both our hearts and the purposes behind our limited involvement.

I am happy that you maintain that you are not “entangled in the world” (although I personally believe that you misunderstand what is being said in that particular passage…and that you may be more involved in government than you might recognize). However, I am seriously disappointed that you freely speak such rhetoric in a manner as if the rest of us are somehow spiritually inferior for not feeling the same as you do. I am quite confident that you don’t mean to come across this way. Yet this is how I feel in nearly every post that you speak in regard to this sort of issue. You might even feel that God has led you to such a position. Please understand that the rest of us feel the same way.

Disclaimer: I didn’t get involved with these “tea parties.” In fact, I didn’t even know about them until they were already taking place. Yet I agree with the notion that a government of consent should be accountable in matters of taxation (especially if an administration wants to spend our tax dollars to murder countless unborn children overseas). These rallies were simply a gathering of voices. They were non-violent. They didn’t hurl accusations at government officials; rather, they simply were citizens telling other citizens what they felt about such issues.
Quote:

Tony Perkins repeated on Sunday the oft repeated statistic. One third of Americans claim to be born-again. If, in this coming year, every one of those 100 million people brought one person to Christ, one person, let me repeat, one person, then 100 million people would be saved in the most overwhelming revival the world has ever seen. Not only would the country be radically changed overnight with crime and abortion and Homosexuality and murder being slashed to an unbeleivably small number, but the world would be enourmously transformed as the vast resources of this great nation was turned towards the purposes of God. And all this brother, and all of this, by bringing one person to the Lord, each and every one of us.


This is very important…and I wholeheartedly agree!!! Unfortunately, this is often said but seldom practiced. I knew a guy who used to say something very similar to this in high school; but, when he was finally asked, he couldn’t point to a single person that he had led to the Lord in the previous four years. We should weep with anguished tears if we aren’t leading people to the Lord!

During college, I attended a wonderful Christian student organization. We were very visible on our college campus. We held many evangelical outreaches and we were having a wonderful move of God on our campus. We even financially supported several missionaries! In order to support the mission on the campus and send donations to missionaries, we would accept offerings and hold periodic fundraisers (like bake sales and car washes). Our car washes accepted “whatever you can afford” donations. During one of those car washes, one of the very vocal guys in our organization complained that we were accepting donations. “[i]Why does this have to be about money[/i]?” he asked. He wanted us to do the car washes for free as a ministry for the passing motorists. He explained that this is “[i]the Christian thing to do[/i].” We explained to him that the purpose of this car wash was to raise funds for missionaries by working hard. I told him that he could feel free to organize a free car wash at anytime…and that he could announce it and ask for volunteers. This was not good enough for him. He left in a puff of what he felt to be “righteous indignation” (he told people this). We had our car wash and earned funds for some missionaries. Ironically, this loud, young man never held one of those “free” car washes.

Why am I saying this? Our opinions may differ even though we believe in similar ends. This young man went around and caused quite a bit of problems because he incorrectly believed and told others that we were “entangled in the affairs of this world” and that we cared “more about money that souls.” He was wrong. He didn’t know that we held to the same core goals that he did – the salvation of souls in this lost and dying world. He continued to hurl his accusations about the rest of us to anyone who would listen to his complaints. He didn’t realize that he was actually bearing false witness by claiming such things. In fact, his comments got out to others around the campus. He acted as though he was doing God a favor by speaking his words to other believers. Yet he never understood that we were wholeheartedly and prayerfully trying to win the lost on our campus and elsewhere.
Quote:
Now, you really want to change the world? Let us all get on our knees and cry out to the living God for forgiveness…

Amen!
Quote:
… forgiveness for the luke-warmness that leads people to be cynical about what [b][u]I[/u] have just said.[/b]

I trust that you mean the part about PRAYER and EVANGELISM and not your personal opinion about whether or not believers can vote or attend rallies about badly executed taxation. The former are undeniable truths that we can all embrace; the latter is simply an opinion.

I just hope that you realize that those of us who disagree with you still hold to the same truths that you do. We are seeking Christ with true spiritual hunger. We spend time with Him in prayer and worship as we seek His face. We hunger to see a move of God in this fallen world and in a church that seems to have fallen asleep. We long for Christ more than anything this world has to offer. In my case, I just feel (through much prayer and study of God’s Word) that I have an opportunity to share my voice through various ways in this nation. We can disagree until the Lord returns…but I think that we need to be careful about “looking down” upon what many of us might prayerfully feel where the Lord has led us.

I do love you, brother.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/4/21 0:06Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi Chris...

This is very interesting in that I was thinking about this today. The same government that taxes us also gives us a voice in the government (through a vote, free speech opportunities, etc...). While taxes are compulsory, our voice is a matter of conscience. My heart does not condemn me in this. After much prayer and study, I feel the liberty through a clear conscience to express my views through a vote, etc...

My relationship with the Lord dictates everything that I believe and do. This is true of the "spiritual" issues...and the matters of this life. I try to share the things that I believe from my prayer and study of the things of God in every aspect of my life. A vote or an opinion are just a couple of areas for which this is true.

Thank you for your reminder.


_________________
Christopher

 2009/4/21 0:14Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3165


 Re:

Jeremiah 17:5-8

Thus saith the LORD;

[b][u]Cursed[/u] be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.[/b] For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

[b][u]Blessed[/u] is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.[/b] For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

 2009/4/21 12:53Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi HeartSong...

Not trying to read too much into these passages, but are they directed here for a reason? I just want to remind you that those of us who do believe in limited involvement in things such as voting...or "tea parties" (I didn't take part in them) do trust in the Lord! To assume otherwise would be simply wrong.

Anyway, I apologize for this interjection. This is a great passage of Scripture...and I appreciate you sharing it with us. I just didn't know if there was a purpose for it...or if it is just a reminder that our faith should be on the Lord. God still uses doctors and medicine, after all, to heal the sick. The Lord certainly doesn't [i]need[/i] to use such things...but we still live in a world where even Timothy was instructed to take a little "wine" because of his stomach's sake and his frequent infirmities (I Timothy 5:23).

Is it possible that God could allow believers to use their citizenship voice (such as a vote or rally) to affect the thoughts of a government of consent which is elected from mere fellow citizens of our temporary country? After all, Paul did invoke his citizenship to avoid a flogging and to appeal unto Caesar in order to take the Gospel to Rome.

Anyway, I apologize again for the question and interjection. The Lord bless you mightily!


_________________
Christopher

 2009/4/21 14:17Profile





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