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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1 John 1:8

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clintstone
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Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

i know all these scriptures this is the law and no man can keep all 630 something of them Jesus did not even keep the letter of the law.. come on ! i am a very intelegent man when it comes to Love and the fulfilment of the law of love in CHRIST JESUS. Jesus told peter to eat that which used to be unlawful for peter to eat as a jew and one who tried to keep the letter of it.


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Clint Demoret

 2009/3/8 18:22Profile
clintstone
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Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

yes that is true to fact . calvin , edwards , and such the like have erroneous views when they speak of the sin nature.. as being something that is involuntary and that we have no choice in the matter, of always having . george whitfield s'comment in this post was not accurate either , All that george could of meant is past sin already cleasnsed from .


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Clint Demoret

 2009/3/8 18:28Profile
clintstone
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Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

matt , you have said well . These things are so very clearly dealt with by Pauls' teachings ,, which was THE GOSPEL , these arguments are stirring me to want to go shout it from the roof tops THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS REDEEMED US FROM THE FALL AND GIVEN US LIFE ABUNDANTLY >>>> THERE IS PLENTY TO DO THAT IS ALL FOR HIM AND BY HIM AND THROUGH HIM THAT WE CAN ESCAPE ALL THE PETTY TEMPTATIONS OF THE DEVIL , THE WORLD ,and THE FLESH HEBREWS 9:13-28 exsplains that SIN HAS BEEN DEALT WITH, TO NO MORE EXIST, IN OUR BODY SOULS OR SPIRITS< BECAUSE OF CHRIST SHEDDING HIS BLOOD AND DYING ONCE AND FOR ALL .. matt this is so clearly taught by paul and John that sin and its curse of confusion and twisted thinking and death . NOW HAS NO PLACE IN CHRIST ,GOD , OR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS . nowhere not one unclean place, not one unclean place, now the conscientious aspect of it and the renewing of the mind by the leading of the Holy Ghost and being cleaned by the BLOOD [ Life ] of Christ is what needs to be taught on and looked at , ans studied constantly . that is called SEEING HIM that the book of hebrews 2:8,9 speaks of. GOD BLESS YUO ALL AND MAY YOU SEE HOW FREE FROM SIN CHRIST JESUS HAS MADE YOU !! Clint .


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/3/8 18:52Profile









 Re:

Clint-

Then you have no need to take up your cross or die every day, you have arrived and are no longer in need of Christ's blood? Sort-of like you got a flu shot and are all set now?


-Jim

 2009/3/8 19:11
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

Jim i am not railing on you i know that you post well on this site. i know by the Spirit you are a Good Christian. the point that I clearly want to get across for all that may read any of my posts here is that SIN CANNOT BE AN ATTRIBUTE OF HUMAN NATURE> for this would be physical , and not moral depravity. to talk of a sinful nature , or sinful constitution, in the sense of physical sinfulness , is to ascribe sinfulness to the creator, who is the author of nature. It is to overlook the essential nature of sin, and to make sin a physical virus , instead of a voluntary and responsible choice . Both sound philosophy and the bible make sin to consist in obeying the flesh,or in the spirit of self- pleasing , or self-indulgence ,which is the same thing, in selfishness-in a carnal mind , or in minding the flesh. Sin is not reporduced by nature and is not passed down by nature.the terms original sin , indwelling sin ,an appetite for sin ,an attribute of human nature , and the teachings promoting such are misleading and false and not biblically taught . The scriptures that biblical teachers use to teach of a sinful nature are misinterpreting those passages .


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Clint Demoret

 2009/3/8 19:19Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Clint wrote:


Quote:
i know all these scriptures this is the law and no man can keep all 630 something of them Jesus did not even keep the letter of the law.. come on ! i am a very intelegent man when it comes to Love and the fulfilment of the law of love in CHRIST JESUS.



Many have the same response because they have repeated what others have said that have gone before them. But, I have never heard it said that Jesus did not obey the Law of Moses fully.

With that said...you have not seen what the Scripture teaches about "unintentional sin" and how God views this sin. Again what does the Scripture teach about this type of sin?

..................................................................................................
Lev. 4:
1 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, 3 if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the LORD for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering.


Lev. 4:13 “Now if the whole congregation of Israel sins unintentionally, and the thing is hidden from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which should not be done, and are guilty; 14 when the sin which they have committed becomes known, then the assembly shall offer a young bull for the sin, and bring it before the tabernacle of meeting.


Lev. 4:22 “When a ruler has sinned, and done something unintentionally against any of the commandments of the LORD his God in anything which should not be done, and is guilty, 23 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a male without blemish.


Lev. 4:27 “If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any of the commandments of the LORD in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty, 28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he has committed.
...............................................................................................

What does Scripture teach us, he who has ears let him hear....

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/3/8 21:12Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

What type of sin did Job commit? Intentional or unintentional.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2009/3/8 21:33Profile









 Re: The Sacrifical System, created by God



To Clintstone:

It might help if we go back to the Old Testament, The Old Covenant, and look at the Sacrificial system created by God, that is nothing more than a shadow, a picture, a "type" of the final Sacrifice of Jesus Christ in the New Covenant, in the New Testament.

[b]THE OLD COVENANT[/b]

The sacrificial system was established by God in the Book of Leviticus and consists of the following:

[b]Sin offering—Fine Flour, Bull, Lamb, Goat, Dove or Pigeon[/b]
Leviticus 4:5-13; 6:24-30

Forgiveness for what I am—a sinner by nature

The offerers work was to lay hands upon the sacrifice, to become one with it, and thus transfer his sins into the substitute, and kill the animal (slit it’s throat)

[b]Trespass Offering---Ram[/b]
Leviticus 5:14-19; 6:17; 7:1-10

Forgiveness for what I did (or do)—Forgiveness for my SINS- either thoughts or deeds

The offerers work was to lay hands upon the sacrifice, and thus transfer his sins into the substitute, to become one with it, and kill the animal (slit it’s throat)

[b]The two sacrificial offerings ABOVE were mandatory, and all Jews were required to offer the above Sacrifices.[/b]

[b]These two (2) offerings referred to above refer to ATONEMENT[/b]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The Following three (3) Sacrifices were [b]VOLUNTARY, and only those Jews who wanted a closer walk with God participated in these Sacrifices.[/b]

[b]Burnt Offering--- Bull, Lamb, Goat, Dove or Pigeon[/b]
Leviticus 1, 6-8-13; 8:18-28

The offerers work was to lay hands upon the sacrifice, and thus transfer his sins into the substitute, to become one with it, and kill the animal (slit it’s throat)

[b]Meal Offering—Fine Flour, oil, salt & frankincense (NO leaven or honey)[/b]
Leviticus 2, 6:14-23; Numbers 15:1-13

The offerers work –give it to the Priest. The Priest then poured it on the altar along with the Burnt offering.


[b]Peace Offering---Bull, Lamb, Goat (no Bird)[/b]
Leviticus 3, 7:11-36; 22:18-30

Thank offering, Vow offering, Freewill offering
The offerers work was to lay hands upon the sacrifice, and thus transfer his sins into the substitute, to become one with it, and kill the animal (slit it’s throat)


These three (3) offerings referred to above refer to [b]WORSHIP, AND WERE VOLUNTARY[/b]

[b][color=990000]THE NEW COVENANT

The Offering is Jesus Christ! [/color][/b]

[b]SIN offering[/b]

Forgiveness for what I am—a sinner by nature---by HIS becoming SIN for me. He takes my Robe (my nature).

The Christian is then Crucified with (in) Christ, Identifying with Him- becoming one with the sacrifice.

He (Christ) gives the Christian HIS Robe.

[b]Trespass Offering---Jesus Christ was the sacrificial offering[/b]

Forgiveness for what I did (or do)—Forgiveness for my SINS—either thoughts or deeds, by taking my SINS on Himself.

The Christian’s work is to Confess AND Repent, Lay SINS on the head of my SUBSTITUTE (Jesus Christ).

[b]The above two offering are MANDATORY[/b]

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]The following three offerings are VOLUNTARY[/b]

[b]BURNT Offering—Jesus was the sacrificial offering[/b]

Christ gave himself COMPLETELY to the Father FOR US. He died FOR God, thus is the perfect Son—thereby He accomplished the Father’s will

The Christian’s work is to present ourselves by VOLUNTARILY yielding to His LORDSHIP.

[b]MEAL Offering- Jesus was the sacrificial offering [/b]

Christ always walked in obedience to Father and the Law, because He always yielded to the Holy Spirit. He was anointed WITHOUT MEASURE, thus a REAL MAN—an unblemished human life. Oil IN and ON the fine flour—no leaven or honey, the result= SALT.

The Christian walks in the Spirit—the Holy Spirit produces obedience through the NEW NATURE as we yield. This is the natural consequence of a Spirit filled life—and we become real MEN via His resurrection life in us.

[b]PEACE Offering- Jesus was the sacrificial offering [/b]

Jesus had perfect FELLOWSHIP and COMMUNION with the heavenly Father as a result of His OBEDIENCE. [b]This obedience was the RESULT of a Spirit filled and led walk—NOT the means of producing a Spirit filled walk.[/b]

[b][color=990000]The Christian receives COMMUNION & FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD. TO KNOW HIM—NOT MERELY TO KNOW ABOUT HIM![/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter





Quote:

clintstone wrote:
Jim i am not railing on you i know that you post well on this site. i know by the Spirit you are a Good Christian. the point that I clearly want to get across for all that may read any of my posts here is that SIN CANNOT BE AN ATTRIBUTE OF HUMAN NATURE> for this would be physical , and not moral depravity. to talk of a sinful nature , or sinful constitution, in the sense of physical sinfulness , is to ascribe sinfulness to the creator, who is the author of nature. It is to overlook the essential nature of sin, and to make sin a physical virus , instead of a voluntary and responsible choice . Both sound philosophy and the bible make sin to consist in obeying the flesh,or in the spirit of self- pleasing , or self-indulgence ,which is the same thing, in selfishness-in a carnal mind , or in minding the flesh. Sin is not reporduced by nature and is not passed down by nature.the terms original sin , indwelling sin ,an appetite for sin ,an attribute of human nature , and the teachings promoting such are misleading and false and not biblically taught . The scriptures that biblical teachers use to teach of a sinful nature are misinterpreting those passages .

 2009/3/8 21:52
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Sin Nature? Erroneous?

I think not.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Gaebelein's Annoted Bible
Ephesians 2:1



2. The Production of the Masterwork and its Destiny

CHAPTER 2:1-10

1. What we are by nature (2:1-3)
2. What God does--rich in mercy (2:4-6)
3. The destiny of the masterwork (2:7)
4. Saved by grace (2:8-10)
After the great revelation of the first chapter and the prayer which followed, the production of the masterpiece itself is now brought more fully into view. We have before us a revelation concerning our state by nature and how God takes us up and produces out of such material His masterpiece. The first ten verses of this chapter give us this story. They contain one of the richest portions of the whole Word of God.

The first verse tells us that we are by nature in the state of death--"dead in trespasses and sins." Man is dead spiritually; he is dead towards God (Joh 5:24-25). This fact that the unregenerated man is dead is much denied in our days. We hear of "the better self," or "the good spark" which is in everybody, and the truth God has revealed concerning man, that he is dead in trespasses and sins is but little believed. The next verse states the walk of the natural man. It fully shows the awful place in which man is as dead in trespasses and sins. The walk is according to his fallen nature; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life are the governing principles of this walk. We are enemies of God by wicked works. And behind all there stands the prince of the power of the air, Satan. He works in the children of disobedience, which here means the Jews. Of this our Lord spake when He said, "Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do" (Joh 8:44). And again it is written, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. (1Jo 3:8). It is a solemn truth, which God has revealed concerning our condition as fallen beings, that we are in the grasp of the prince of the power of the air; that man is under this mighty being of darkness. To what a place of degradation man has been brought by sin! This likewise is disbelieved by the great majority of professing Christians. A personal devil is ridiculed and his existence is denied.

In the third verse another description is added, "children of wrath." The "you" of the first verse is addressed to the Ephesians, showing what they were in their former condition. The "we" in the third verse means the Jews "among whom we also had our conversation." The apostle shows that the Jews were in the same condition; and he adds "and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." Jews and Gentiles are dead in trespasses and sins, are the enemies of God and children of wrath. And this truth is also increasingly denied. The Word of God is most positive, and tells us "that he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him" (Joh 3:36). The denial of a future, conscious and eternal punishment of the wicked is becoming wide-spread; it is one of the marks of the latter day cults like Christian Science, Russellism, the New Theology, Spiritism and others. But the believer who knows the gospel and knows that he is "saved by grace" does not deny the truth of these first three verses of this chapter. It is our true photograph. Such material, God has to produce out of it His great masterwork.

After this dark picture of death, ruin and wrath, we read what God has done and does, for all who believe on His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. "But God who is rich in mercy, for the great love, wherewith He loved us" (verse 4). This is the blessed bridge, which leads out of the dark and dreary, hopeless condition. But God! Man is guilty and lost. But God! God now comes in and makes known the riches of His mercy. Yet a righteous, holy God cannot be rich in mercy unless His righteousness is fully met and maintained. His mercy must have for a foundation His righteousness. And this is blessedly the case. He is rich in mercy for the great love wherewith He loved us. He gave His only begotten Son. He made Him who knew no sin, sin for us. He made full atonement on the cross and now God can be rich in mercy. And what does He do with such as we are? Verses 5-6 tell the blessed story.

These verses in which we read of the believer's quickening, his resurrection with Christ and being seated in Christ in the heavenlies, take us back to the time when our blessed Savior Lord was quickened and raised from the dead and seated in glory. It is plain what God did for Him, who died on the cross, He has done for all, who believe on His Son. Many Christians are ignorant of this great truth, while others have difficulty in grasping it. Yet it is quite Simple. Every Christian believes that when the Lord Jesus suffered on the cross He bore our sins in His own body on the tree. With the Apostle Paul every believer is entitled to say in looking back to the cross, "He loved me, He gave Himself for me." We know all our sins were paid for by Him; all the punishment we deserved fell upon Him, our substitute. In Him we died. All this happened when we were not in existence at all. The sins He bore were not yet committed. God knew all about us and all about our sins and shame, the punishment we deserved, and His ever-blessed Son took all upon Himself. In the same sense God hath quickened us with Christ, raised us up and seated us in Him, when He did this for His Son our Lord Jesus Christ. This is simple, yet so wonderful and deep, that it is incomprehensible. It was all done for us, who believe, when it was done for Him. God in His marvelous counsels in redemption has associated us with Christ. He has made all, who believe on Him, sharers of His life and nature; He brings us into the same relationship as sons, and finally into the same glory and inheritance. Let us bear in mind that all this was done for us in Christ. He is the first one who was quickened, raised up and exalted in glory, and associated with Him are all His members; we share it with Him.

And all this becomes our blessed portion by faith in Jesus Christ. As we believe on Him, we are quickened, that is, we receive life, even eternal life and are saved by grace. Then we are risen with Him. We are now in Him, risen from the dead, the sons of God. Likewise in Christ (not with Christ) we are seated in the heavenly places. Now it is "in Him"; when He comes again we shall be "with Him" and share His glory. Here we have the summit of Christian position. We are not along representatively, but also virtually seated in Christ in the highest glory.

It is worth the while to review in a brief word the blessed revelations given in the first six verses of this chapter.

We saw first what man is by nature. Dead in trespasses and sins. Enemies of God under the prince of the power of the air, this is the result of such a condition. Children of wrath, because we are dead, His enemies and linked with Satan.

And now God has come in with His mighty power in the production of His masterwork. He gives life so that the dead condition is ended. Instead of enemies, we are constituted, by the resurrection of His Son, beloved sons of Himself. And in Christ Jesus, He makes of us children of glory, instead of children of wrath. Marvelous masterwork of God! May we praise Him for it all.

But one must ask in view of such riches of grace, as revealed in the preceding verses, What is the purpose of all this? The verse which follows gives the answer. We find ourselves face to face with the destiny of His masterpiece.

"That in the ages to come He might show (or display) the exceeding (surpassing) riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus" (verse 7). This is one of the richest and deepest statements in the Bible. Two ages follow the present age. The millennial age, and after that has lasted for a thousand years, the eternal state begins. In the coming age and in all eternity, God is going to make known His glory through and in His masterwork. All His redeemed will be with Him in glory. When He comes again He brings many sons to glory; and we shall reign and rule with Him over the earth.

But this is not all. in the eternal age, from eternity to eternity, God is continuing in this. He will bring forth something new in glory, new riches of Himself for those who are one with His well-beloved Son. From eternity to eternity He displays the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. How one is overwhelmed in the presence of such a statement! And how little after all we can understand all those coming riches in glory. What a destiny! The heart may well cry--nothing but glory! What is the little suffering, the little while down here, in comparison with such never ending glory!

Fittingly this great revelation ends with the blessed statement that we are saved by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God; and that we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.





We cannot walk in good works unless we have a nature change. Christ in you, is our new nature, for He was not our Lord, Savior, Brother, Friend, and telling us to Call God "Our Father".

If this is not a nature change from your father the devil, I don't know what is.

Praise God my old nature is dead on the Cross with Christ. Being alive to sin and Satan, then being crucified with Christ, and with new life in Christ being a Holy Creation in Christ Jesus is certainly a change in Nature.

Ephesians 2:4-6 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Not only a new nature, but a complete new Creature in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Is not uncircumcision or circumcision a nature?

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What Nature? "Devine Nature"

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2009/3/8 23:10Profile
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

the letter kills , But the Spirit gives Life. the time when Jesus did not keep the law , in those religious spirited guys thought that by law Jesus could not heal someone on the sabbath, because that was work . another time they thought that an adulterous woman should be stoned, because that was a levitacle law, Jesus did not keep that one. the woman was not stoned. I am so sure i can find more but i amnot here to argue this easy point, it is triffling. the Spirit of the law of God is Love and Jesus always kept and did that perfectly.


_________________
Clint Demoret

 2009/3/9 18:08Profile





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