SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : TRADITION

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


The fourth commandment is a commandment, and not a request.

James 2:10,11 tells us, that, if we break any of the Ten Commandments,we become transgressors of His law, and are guilty of breaking all of them.

Jesus said, "Not every one that SAITH, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that DOETH the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (LAWLESSNESS) Mt 7:21-23.

"Ane hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him: But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected." 1 John 2:3-5.

At the very end of the Book of all books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

Covenants have conditions.

2 Tim 3:16 in the Greek reads, "Every Scripture is God breathed..."

There is no life in tradition, only, in His Word.

 2009/3/3 18:17Profile


I would encourage all SI members to be weary of the heresies (intermingled with truth) that sscr01 constantly presents on this forum and look to the whole council of the word of God instead.


 2009/3/3 20:45

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


You, still, haven't been specific. Either support your claims,or stop claiming that I am a heretic.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word, and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 2009/3/3 21:04Profile

Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453


sscr01 wrote:The fourth commandment is a commandment, and not a request.James 2:10,11 tells us, that, if we break any of the Ten Commandments,we become transgressors of His law, and are guilty of breaking all of them.

And we all have, which is why we need a Savior. You don't need to preach the law to believers--we have already knelt before the Savior and pled, "Guilty as charged. God have mercy on me, a sinner." You might do some good if you preached on Infidel forums to bring sinners under conviction. That is the purpose of the law.Gal. 3:19-26

And James does not say, "The Ten Commandments," he says, "the WHOLE law." Have you been circumcised, sscr01? Do you abstain from pork? Do you sacrifice bulls and goats as a propitiation for sins? No? Then you are condemned under the law. Gal 3:10-12 And if you think you can please God by keeping that tiny portion of the law you have arbitrarily selected ("The Ten Commandments"), think again. Rom. 3:19-20

The law is not for believers. It's purpose is to bring sinners to repentance. "8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine." 1 Tim. 1:9-10

If you want to be a preacher of the law, that is the crowd you should be hanging with.

The Covenant of the Law never saved anyone. "8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful." Rom. 7:8-13

Thus the Holy Spirit uses the law to bring us right where He wants us to be: kneeling at the Cross, wholly dependent on the righteousness of Another. Once we are there, the law is finished with us. "24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Gal. 3:24-25

"4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." Rom. 7:4-6

We serve in newness of spirit by keeping the commandments of Jesus. And this can only be done by faith Phil. 2:13 Read James again in this light and maybe you will understand what he means by the "perfect law of liberty." Yes, faith without works is dead; but works without faith are dead works. You make no distinction between the walk of faith and legal self-effort. Instead of faith and obedience, you preach just obedience. I don't see Christ lifted up in your gospel, only the severity of the law.

A legalist sees Jesus only as Propitiation for sins, Rulemaker, Example to follow, and Object of devotion. But to those who have no confidence in our own righteousness, He is infinitely more than that. "19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Gal. 2:19-20

P.S. "Hell's Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort is an excellent tutorial on the correct use of the law. [url=][/url]

Wayne Kraus

 2009/3/3 23:21Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


The law is not only ten commandments, there are 613 of them, and if you break any of them you have broken the law. And if you are a western i can promise you you break his law everyday in what clothes you wear and what food you eat.

but we are not under the law, since the old covenant was faulty, but praise God for the new and living way. Jesus Christ.

The law produces pharisees that put demands on others what and how they should live and they set a standard from their interpreting of their favorite verses and tell others.

Before we start trying keep the old testament laws, let us try keep the new testament laws, always praying, feeding the poor, clothe the naked, love the brethren, always rejoice, never say a hard word to anyone, never look with lust towards women/men , never long for riches or material improvement, be content with food and clothes as God provides.

now these are the important commandments.

You keep these you be alright, the ten commandments most good people keep, most devout Muslims keep 8 of the ten commandments.

most good everyday hard working upright people keep the first nine laws of the ten commandments.

But Jesus have already showed us how we can keep the whole law, all 613 in the old and all in the new, not sure how many there are, but i once went through the NT and found more then one hundred of commandments Jesus said we should do.

But i am sure there are many more, but Jesus said, and i want everyone to get this, it will help you so much if you do.

He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" (Luk 10:26 NKJ)

(this is how Jesus understood the old testament including the ten commandments, and if you think you understand the bible better then Christ himself...well then...)

So he answered and said, "`You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and`your neighbor as yourself.'" (Luk 10:27 NKJ)

and we see if we continue reading that men want to justify themself before God by questioning what he says, its the pharisee in us, and in the following parable we see humble love in action, a example we should follow if we want to live.

Grace and Gods love in abundance.


ill clarify some more,

When Jesus ask what the law teaches, and we have in other gospels Jesus himself saying the same, the sum of the entire law of God is to love God and our next as ourself. this does not meen we should not keep his commandments, on the contrary, but many of the pharisees did keep the sabbath and did many more of the commandments, yet Jesus said they would go deeper into the pits of hell then other sinners would.

It is a heart issue, how is your heart? do you want to keep the sabbath? do as you feel lead and do it unto the Lord, but as soon as you set up a standard for others you cross a line. I think every day is a sabbath unto the Lord, in the OT we gave a tenth of our income, in the NT we give everything to him.

In the old you gave one of your sons to him, in the new we give all our children to him.

its my suspicion we so easily forget our own sin and our own need for Jesus. Its my experience that when we see others sins, or others "not keeping the sabbath or not doing this or that that I do" we have lost the light on ourselves.

and this makes us proud, hard and unreprovable and unteachable.

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

(by faith, not by keeping the law)

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 [b]For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has [u]forgotten[/u] that he was cleansed from his old sins.[/b] 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2Pe 1:1 NKJ)

We need to keep in mind these things, so we dont stumble, and seeing the specks in other eyes, and having logs in our own eyes, you dont do this or you do this, let see to it we do what Jesus said we should do, discussing to keep a sabbath or not, what day ect is not edifying, it will not make you any holier if you keep a sabbath saturday or sunday or not at all. For me all days are Holy and everyday of my life is unto the Lord. Why give God only one day when i can give Him seven?

knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers (1Pe 1:18 NKJ)

let us see to it that God will work in us making us Holy, like Jesus Christ, he did good on the sabbath, he allowed the deciples pick grain (work) on the sabbath, he healed on the sabbath and so on, let us remember the major things and quit squabbling over the minor issues.

"making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." (Mar 7:13 NKJ)

if keeping one day in the week as sabbath OT style make you more loving and humble do keep on keeping it, if it makes you more loving and gentle towards your wife and makes you more like Christ day by day and makes you hate sin more and more. Do keep a sabbath.

Let us remember the important things


 2009/3/4 1:52Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


As I have stated, in Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used interchangably with, "law," "commandments," "judgments," "precepts," "statutes," testimonies."


"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

When His Spirit is within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to keep His Word/His law.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

And ye know that He was manifested TO TAKE AWAY OUR SINS; and in Him is no sin.

Whosoever abideth in Him (walks in His Spirit) sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, NEITHER KNOWN HIM.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous.

He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the Devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose was the Son of God manifested, that He might destroy the works of the Devil.

Whosover is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the Devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3.

(So, why does John say, that, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4?)

When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments" He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5;Lev 19:18."

"By THIS we know that we love the children of God,when we love God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus said, "He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth ME SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

"And this is love that we walk after His commandments. 2 John 6.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17

HIs saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

Rom 16:29 refers to "the obedience of faith."

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"I am crucified with Christ..." Ga 2:20

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN that grace may abound? God forbid. HOW SHALL WE THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?" Rom 6:1.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us...To such as keep His Covenant and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Ps 103.

At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

Covenants have conditions.

If you want eternal life, keep His commandments.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word, and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 2009/3/4 7:08Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


can you show me somewhere where Jesus emphesises keeping the sabbath ? where he gives it as a commandment?

he did give many commandments such like "sell everything you own"

pick up your cross

and ect, if we keep these laws we will live, the people of israel kept the law, the pharisees kept the law but still went to hell.

So it is possible to outwardly keep the commanments and still go to hell, still keep the sabbath but in your heart its not for the lord, its possible give a tenth of your income but do it grudgingly or unwillingly.

the new and living way is another way brother, but everyone who follows Christ does what he commanded, you should read matt 5 - 7

and emphesise where Christ says You have heard that it was said to those of old


but i say unto you.........

who is I?

Jesus or God in flesh....

so you see the old changed, if the old was perfect there would have been no need for Christ to come.

But I say unto you.... do what Christ said unto you and you will live, but if you live by the law you will die.


 2009/3/4 7:32Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


Jesus prophesied,that, the Sabbath would bekept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there, yet. Mt 24:20.

"For as the NEW HEAVENS and the NEW EARTH which I will make, shall remain before Me, SAITH THE LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me SAITH THE LORD." Isa 66:22,23.

God's people will keep the Sabbath in His Kingdom.

The fourth commandment is a commandment and not a request.

When Moses disobeyed the Lord, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter "The Promised Land," because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

Disobedience = Unbelief
Obedience = Faith

God spoke to Abraham: "And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

BECAUSE that Abraham obeyed MY VOICE (HIS WORD), and kept MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS and MY LAWS." Gen 26:4,5.

Rom 16:29 refers to "the obedience of faith."

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8. When he was ready to sacrifice his son, in response to the command of God.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD (faith & works) and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

YE SEE THEN HOW THAT BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, AND NOT BY FAITH ONLY...For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2.

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Ga 3:7.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Ga 3:29.

"But without faith, it is impossible to please Him..." Heb 11:6.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world; and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." 1 John 5:4,5.

"By faith Abel...By faith Enoch...By faith Noah...By faith Abraham...By faith Isaac...By faith Jacob...By faith Joseph...By faith Moses...Through faith Sara...By faith Rahab...By faith they passed through the Red Sea...By faith the walls of Jericho fell down...Who through faith subdued Kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions...quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: AND OTHERS WERE TORTURED, NOT ACCEPTING DELIVERANCE; THAT THEY MIGHT OBTAIN A BETTER RESURRECTION: and others had trials of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: they were stoned, sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, in mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. AND THESE ALL HAVING OBTAINED A GOOD REPORT THROUGH FAITH..." Heb 11.

My grandfather was in that number. He was a Dutch Reformed missionary to China. He was arrested by Mao Tse Tung, put on trial, with a gun held to his head. He was ordered to renounce his faith. Instead, he preached the Gospel to thousands of Chinese communists. They threw him in a dungeon. At last, he cried out to God, "Either take me home, or set me free." That day, "someone" came, opened the door. He thought he would be executed. Instead, he led him to the Hong Kong Harbor. He found his family, that, had fled from the Communists.

The Communists killed every foreigner, but skipped over my Grandfather's house. My father, a very cerebral Pathologist said, when they had fled into the wilderness, bandits rode up. They would slit your clothes and then kill you. Instead, they heard a bugle noise, out of the wilderness and fled. My father believed it was a miracle from God.

There is no true faith without obedience to God and His Word.

 2009/3/4 8:27Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


i believe in obedience brother, probably to a degree that would make many say i am en extremist.

But do you obey the commandments about eating in OT as well? do you obey those commandments about not mixing different fabrics in your cloths?

if not, i wonder what verses or commandments are higher? how do i know which ones are HIS WORD as you put it? and abraham did hear his voice, because moses dident live at the time so he couldent have written the five books of moses yet, so abraham did not read HIS WORD. He heard his voice. But i think i understand what you are saying.

But how do you separate the ten commandments from the other 603 commandments as less or more important? all where given by God.

so in a sense if you have mixed fabric in your clothes you are breaking the law, and james says if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all.

And if you do does that mean you live in unbelif?

your reasoning have a big hole in it....


 2009/3/4 8:36Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


I keep all the commandments that are written in Scripture.

The Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy, ""I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers WITH PURE CONSCIENCE..." 2 Tim 1:3.

I serve Him with a pure conscience, and trust the Holy Spirit to reveal anything to me, that I need to repent of...that is what sanctification is all about.

I have done a post on the Ceremonial law, which was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14. It pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus and was fulfilled. Circumcision is now of the heart, washings are baptism, the Sabbath Feast Days were fulfilled:

Passover: Our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin.
Tabernacles: "He "tabernacled among us"

If the Ceremonial law had not been fulfilled, we would, still, sacrifice animals.


1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15
2. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-3
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15.


1. Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:8
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20;Heb 9:4
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19.

There was, only, One Covenant in The Ark - The Ten Commandment Covenant.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word, and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 2009/3/4 8:40Profile

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy