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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Victorian bushfires toll climbs to 76

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:

I do not understand the terrain or how these fires can seemingly jump into towns like this. It's all really irrelevant though ... the loss of life, the story's of mothers losing their children of fathers ... the word "horrific".



Without downplaying the loss of life, etc, allow me to help you to see how this has happened. Through my work, at an industrial supply store, I have had contact with some of the fire fighters in my area, which is where I get some of the information, on what has been called the worse natural disaster in Australian history.

Geographically, Australia is a relatively small nation (pop 21mil, compared to 19mil in New York), occupying a massive land mass (7,686,850sq km compared to 141,299sq km in New York).

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Melbourne_Map.png][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Melbourne_Map.png/280px-Melbourne_Map.png[/img][/url]

As can be seen above, Melbourne as a City is tiny, in land mass, but with 3.8mil people, it is the second largest city in Australia (4.3mil in Sydney). The city is built like a "spoke wheel" around its CBD, located at the top of Port Phillip Bay.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greater_Melbourne_Map_4_-_May_2008.png][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Greater_Melbourne_Map_4_-_May_2008.png/140px-Greater_Melbourne_Map_4_-_May_2008.png[/img][/url]

My reason for showing this, is because the area outside of the city of Melbourne, consists mostly of forests of gum trees. Even much the outer suburbs, particularly to the north east, have houses and street amongst the trees, as can be seen by the image below.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greensborough-overall-aerial.jpg][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Greensborough-overall-aerial.jpg/120px-Greensborough-overall-aerial.jpg[/img][/url]

This is an aerial photo of Greensborough, which is where I grew up. In the middle of the photo, you can see one the largest shopping centres (that's "shopping mall" for our friends in the States;-)) in the northern suburbs. This photo is typical of this town, and there are houses sprawled all through those trees.

Now the areas affected by the fires have houses, on acreage, whether the population is not as dense, and the trees are are plentiful. Below is a map of the areas affected

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:09_Victorian_bushfires_locator_map.png][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c0/09_Victorian_bushfires_locator_map.png/120px-09_Victorian_bushfires_locator_map.png[/img][/url]

As you can see, the fires aren't coming into the suburban areas of Melbourne, but are affecting the more "rural" areas. It was in these areas that these people have been affected. Although we are talking about some large numbers, percentage wise, these figures are far, far more.

I heard a newsreader speak of how she was warned to stay in her house, when given bush fire training, upon moving into her rural property. Over the years, the tendency was for the bushfires to destroy the trees and surrounding, but many of the buildings have been spared. My uncle was caught in a fire, in New South Wales, where he had a Nectarine orchard. He lost his trees, and his farm equipment, but the fires left over his shed, and house.

These fires have contradicted conventional wisdom, travelling in excess of 150km/h destroying everything in its path. Abandoned cars are being found one the road, with emergency services unable to tell whether they were still occupied when the fires gutted them.

On the first day of the fires, Melbourne was experiencing its hottest on record, at 46.4°C (115.5°F). Being outside was like standing in front of an oven, because on top on the temperature, were blistering winds. It could be said that the "perfect conditions" for maximum devastation to occur.

Anyway, I hope this sheds some light on what has been going on down here.

*Edit* Thanks to Wikipedia for making these images avaiable. Click on images for author infomration, etc. *Edit*


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2009/2/9 7:40Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Dear CJaKfOrEsT,

Quote:
This is an aerial photo of Greensborough,



Clicking on the image brought the terrible problem in complete focus. All those trees, those beautiful trees enable such terrible devastation. Of course, not that the trees are bad to have it is quite simply God's will.

My prayer is for the souls of all those in the path of the fire. If they are not yet saved, I pray God will give them the will to repent.

Thank you for your post.

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/2/9 10:43Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re:

Quote:
PRAY PEOPLE PRAY!


I have been praying, and am continuing to pray. You are all on my mind and in my heart.

I was involved with a 520,000 acre fire in the mountains of AZ. After the fire I went and visited the communities that were overtaken. There was complete devastation and the smell was horrible.

By the grace of God, there was no loss of life as we were all evacuated ahead of the fires. But I remember well the radio putting out the warning signal every 15 minutes - three days of trying to decide what to take in my car - finally just letting it all go as I drove away from my house never expecting to see it again.

And then the aftermath of trying to figure out who was to blame. Everybody pointing their finger at the other guy. This being followed by botched relief efforts where somehow those that didn't need assistance received funds, while those that really needed funds went without. And then the coming of the rain and the resulting mudslides inundating homes that had been spared by the fire . . . yes I remember it well.

Both of the fires were started by man. There is a picture that I took of the approaching fire - there is what looks to be an evil presence in the smoke. I titled it "Dancing with the Devil."


EDIT: I forgot to mention that about two weeks after the fire, beautiful green grasses began to emerge from the charred embers of the ravaged landscape. I have a picture of this also, which I titled "Life Emerges."

 2009/2/9 11:28Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

[url=http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/4888]Islam group urges forest fire jihad[/url]

Just came upon this, God have mercy.

white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/2/9 12:47Profile
wildhorse86
Member



Joined: 2005/5/20
Posts: 87


 Re:

Islam fire jihad... could be propaganda?
First I have even heard of it.

We are now confirmed, 181 dead.

We are also having massive flooding in Queensland.

Michael

 2009/2/10 7:25Profile
HeartSong
Member



Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3179


 Re:

[b]Heartbreak at home as Aussies return after fires[/b]
[i]By TANALEE SMITH, Associated Press Writer[/i]


KINGLAKE, Australia – A cast-iron potbellied stove stood on what used to be the verandah of Peter Denson's home, the only thing left intact after a ferocious wildfire destroyed most of this wooded township.

The uninsured 58-year-old carpenter stepped onto a piece of his wall, which crunched and gave way, and pointed to where his bed had been, where his refrigerator had sat, where his computer once was.

His beloved Harley-Davidson was a burned-out shell under a crumpled shed. He was left with only his car and the clothes on his back.

Faced with the daunting prospect of rebuilding, he asked: "Where do you start? Where do you start?"

Police allowed hundreds of homeowners to return to their towns Wednesday for the first time since weekend wildfires — driven by 60 mph winds and 115-degree temperatures — spread quickly through drought-dry forests and brush in southeastern Australia. The fires killed 181 people — authorities say the death toll will exceed 200 — and destroyed more than 1,000 houses. More than 5,000 are homeless.

Many of Denson's neighbors in Kinglake, 70 miles north of Melbourne, returned to similar scenes of utter devastation and loss. Not a single house remained standing on his street, now a smoky, silent moonscape of blackened tree trunks and charred earth.

A chimney poked out of a pile of rubble where a neighbor's house had stood. Blue-and-white checkered police tape cordoned off an area where bones had been found. A mailbox or two was still upright. A solitary swing set stood idle in a yard.

Denson and his daughter, Amberley, drove slowly up the hill to Kinglake, where he has lived for 30 years and where his daughter grew up. Their progress was slow because emergency workers were restoring power lines and cutting down trees that appeared ready to fall.

"It's eerie. It's like a movie," Amberley said as they drove through the desolate town that still smells of acrid smoke. "It looks completely different up here."

Here and there she pointed out a landmark — "My kindergarten is gone. Oh no, the pizza place!" — or a friend's home. They waved as they passed familiar faces and wondered aloud which neighbors had survived.

At the Kinglake Community Center, the township reunited after days cut off from each other due to road closures. Friends embraced, confirmed the safety of those not there, and wept for those killed — at least 39 in the town, by the latest count.

Denson was away from home on Saturday afternoon when he received a phone call about the approaching fire.

"We were looking at the sky on the horizon and thought, 'This looks pretty freaky,'" Denson recalled. "The sun went red — the smoke went in front of the sun — and it was just this red ball."

Denson had driven to the home of his son, Joel, since his own house appeared to be in the path of the flames. Joel's neighborhood was largely cleared of trees, and he was home with his 3-year-old son, Beau.

Denson's other son, Paul, soon arrived with his partner, fleeing a blaze that roared down their wooded street.

Joel's wife, Sonia Dukic, soon came home from working at the nearby grocery store, where a frenzied scene had erupted when residents saw smoke and flames bearing down on the town. Dukic said she wove her way through a traffic jam of nearly 100 cars to get home, where she began hurriedly packing a suitcase to flee town.

But with reports of fire all around them, the extended family decided instead to stay, tense and fearful. Looking out a back window, Dukic saw what she thought was a fire engine approaching through the trees.

"It turned out to be the bits of flame I could see through the smoke," she said. Soon a wall of fire was at the treeline at the back of their property, about 50 yards from the house.

With a neighbor, the adults spent the next few hours filling buckets with water and racing to the fence, soaking the property line.

When the fire eased and they felt the house was safe, they all headed to the fire station to take shelter for the rest of the night. On Sunday they took a convoy out of town, not returning until the road reopened Wednesday.

[b]Amberley had been staying with her mother, Denson's ex-wife, Karen, fearing for their family's safety and offering up prayers for them.

"There was a knock on my door on Sunday afternoon, and there they all were, black-faced and smelling like smoke," she said. "It was the best sight I'd ever seen."[/b]

The Densons admit they were lucky.

Each of them knows someone who died. On Paul Denson's street, it is believed that at least 20 people were killed. Dukic last saw a 21-year-old fellow employee at the grocery store who said she was leaving to see if neighbors needed help saving their horses; the woman and her sister died in that effort.

Days later, even little Beau remembers the terror of that night. "Smoke coming," he says, pointing to the trees behind his house.

Thousands of mostly volunteer firefighters were still battling more than a dozen fires across the state. Weather conditions were cool, but gusting winds constantly threatened efforts to get them under control. Forecasters said temperatures could rise again by the weekend.

Police said they were looking into rumors of looters at some destroyed houses in abandoned areas. It was not clear if those people owned the houses, or were searching for food, clothes or other necessities.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd ordered officials to loosen regulations that give survivors access to a package of $6.6 million in government cash payments. The Red Cross said its government-backed wildfire fund had received more than $22 million. Police and other organizations were collecting clothes, toys and housewares.

At Denson's home, his daughter searched for any usable housewares in the debris and turned up only a coffee mug, a large clay vase and a ceramic duck ornament.

Also discovered near the ruined Harley was a beer bottle — twisted and melted by the inferno.

The find brought a smile to Denson's weathered face for the first time Wednesday, and he said he would keep odd souvenir and display it in his next home.


Source

 2009/2/11 15:42Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Sobering

Dear Aaron, thank you for the earlier explanations, saw them at the time but didn't get around to responding ...

When I saw "gum trees" it really made much more sense. The winds ... the speed, just watching some of the video, hearing the reports of the sound, tornado like ...

In one of the earlier links there was a section of photos. One picture spoke so much and has stayed with me, haunted me if you will of a young boy seated in a car looking out the window, the expression of so much in his countenance ...



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Mike Balog

 2009/2/15 9:29Profile





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