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All I can say Ginny is this: one man's trash is another man's treasure. Or... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I dont like rap music either. It's not my thing. But I dare say that God is outside our box. Back in the early 70's when the Jesus Movement was in full swing, groups like Love Song were writing songs in the language of that generation... and many in the church condemned it word for word like you just did CMR. Today some of the songs that Love Song and others wrote 35 years ago are now in many hymnals and praise books... and the same people who condemned it all a generation ago are now saying "my... what lovely praises to Jesus these songs are!"
Music of indiginous people in Peru or Argetina or Zimbobwa is probably very strange to my ears... but God forbid I try to westernize them by making them sing "I'll Fly Away" in 4 part harmony. If they want to do that, thats fine... but the Bible says every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. It doesnt say every English speaking tongue. I think God is glorified by the many different cultures, musical expressions and artistic expressions.
Instead of making everyone just like us... in other words: cookie cutter Christians... I think each person should glorify and worship Jesus in the manner in which He made them.
We're called to make disciples of Jesus, not white anglo-saxons. We're called to conform to Jesus, not make everyone an American.
(Consider the current state of Christianity in America... God forbid we make them just like us!)
I'm part Cherokee... and I've been to pow-wow's where Jesus was worshipped on Sunday morning to the music and dance of the Cherokee people. It's one of the most beautiful things you could witness.
Point is... just because YOU dont like the style, or even understand the style, doesnt make it wrong.
Ginny, I'd ask that you re-read what you wrote. I'm saddened by what seems to me to be judgementalism toward these artists. You have judged without really looking into them. I've been very impressed by the level of theological understanding these guys have. Many of them are talking and writing and blogging about things I've never even come close to studying yet in my walk with God.
Be careful is all I'm saying. I have a great respect for Paul Washer, and when he comes away impressed with these people... I think we should take notice.
As for teaching my kids the songs you mentioned, our house is filled with music (and noise!) all the time. All different styles of music, but all praising and honoring to God.
| 2009/2/5 12:15|
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I was talking to a missonary named David Sitton,( his sermons on on this website) and he said a big problem of American missionaries is that we like to take over a culture with our American culture.. Instead of letting each culture learn how to worship God it's own way. Every tribe, nation, and tongue will be worshipping God.. not just the english language or english written songs written 400 years ago. God is in the business of reforming the world.even certain types of music.
Andy... we must be in synch with each other...lol.
I've found that the people who have the least amount of trouble with different styles of music are missionaries. They understand what Paul said about being all things to all men in order to save some.
| 2009/2/5 12:17|
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Krispy...I wear a robe, and so does my pastor. My point in talking about the hip hop culture and Christian rap is that it takes a light and places it under a bushel. How are men to recognize you as a Christian when you deliberately conform to the world and culture of Hip hop.
My whole point with this Christian rap issue is that it waters down the gospel of my Lord and Savior who died for it. It reduces the glorious gospel to a man made image, and it hurts me greatly. Martyrs are dying, people are being persecuted, decapitated, and cut off from families and imprisoned for this gospel....and black men who have nothing better to do just rap about it. Im not trying to make this a color issue..but if a young white man desires to go into ministry, his pastor will connect him with a seminary, cathecize him, and tell him to seek God about ministry,...and he will preach and teach. Nowadays, if a young black man desires to go into ministry, his role models tell him "you can rap for jesus, and breakdance for Jesus"..be on the step team, come to our friday night freestyle for Jeaus...". Thats wrong and it produces a stereotype. When all over the world, everyone else preaches, but black men...we rap, over beats for Jesus "cuz its what we do, homie"...no, thats embarrassing. Get to the Gospel. People in the ghettos and inner cities are just as capable of understanding the gospel as people who have Masters degrees. Its the Gospel, not rocket science...its a work of God and it stupid to think that certain people cannot recieve it as Jesus preached it. God does the work, not hip hop , not ccm,not anything else...and God does the work through the foolishness of preaching.
| 2009/2/5 12:37||Profile|
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Krispy, sorry you think I am judging. If you will reread my post you will notice I did not damm anyone to hell for differing with me.
Now, may I suggest you take a Strong's concordance and check out all references to 'singers'. Just to name one: 1 Chron. 15:16: Then David spoke to the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their relatives the singers, with instruments of music, harps, lyres, loud-sounding cymbals, to raise sounds of joy". This concept is repeated: To raise sounds of joy. I do not hear sounds of joy in rap. This concept is repeated in Revelation as well.
Where is the JOY?
| 2009/2/5 12:48||Profile|
| Re: |
Ginny... you do not hear joy. Even tho I dont care for rap music I do hear tremendous joy in thier songs. Who is right? What does it matter?
SonOfMan... I respect your position on this, tho I do disagree.
Again, I think this has more to do with personal tastes than anything else.
Not gonna really discuss this anymore because there really is no reason to. We'll agree to disagree... and in heaven we'll have all the answers.
| 2009/2/5 13:11|
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amen, Im not really tryin to discuss this anymore either, In heaven we will have all the answers. I know i loved rap like a best friend, and i was a big fan of it, knew it like my back hand. My flesh still has a hard time not tapping my foot when a song comes on (Christian rap that is). I have been totally going against my fleshly desires in these discussions, and the old man's opinion was totally contrary to the new mans. My personal taste was for the things i once loved in the world that i believed could be "Christian". Only the light of scripture and the seriousness of the cross has changed my thinking about these things. Thank God for his grace, and thank you all for hearing me out on these things.
| 2009/2/5 14:55||Profile|
| Re: son of man|
You definitely cannot try to relate parables and rap in the same sentence
sure I can, the Lord was speaking to a 1st century group of farmers and herdsman, etc.
they knew what a mustard seed was, how it grew, what it would do to a field of barley.
they knew what weeds within sown wheat would do.
they knew what seeds sown in shallow soil base would do, and on and on.
Try getting lost inner city youth to relate and sing to "That Rugged Old Cross", with 50 year old white guys in suits leading them.
I'm not talking about compromising, or being oh so cool to the point of being a rank fleshling, I'm talking about being real.
If some Spirit filled young follower of Jesus wanted to rap out Psalm 51, and it pricked the hearts of one, ten, or thousands of his peers with the Love of Jesus, you want to try and stand in the way of that?
I dont listen to rap either, aint my thing.
Rap, both Christian and secular is defined by the Culture. The Christian rappers will follow the style of secular rappers because the secular is the womb of it. It has always been this way and will always be this way.
okay, you're right, I'm wrong, they're hell bound compromising apostates and you're making a stand for the faith...like you said, "its always been this way"...you're right.
| 2009/2/5 15:06|
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Well Krispy and who ever else...I am one of those missionaries(see krispys post)!!!!!
And at the risk of repeating myself, and seeing as most the ones who are contributing to this thread now are anti-rap or whatever.
As a non rap loving missionary trying to reach a lost generation, i would ask the question again....
for those rap/hip hop fans out there if you where to suggest two cd´'s to use in our youth events which are lyricaly sound and got good beats which cd's would you suggest?
Sorry for all you who are anti, but I would really like some suggestions to help our ministering the gospel here!!!!!
thanks and in the words of them 'nasty' rappers.....peace out!!!!! :-)
| 2009/2/5 15:44||Profile|
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shai linne's Atonemnet album is great.
| 2009/2/5 16:55||Profile|
North Pole, Alaska
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2nd Coming by Flame feat. Shai Linne. The song is great lyrically and beatwise.
| 2009/2/5 20:02||Profile|