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 Re: Sonofman

Actually this subject has already been addressed on another thread no too long ago.

This was written by Mike, and I thought it was very good.

[size=small]"Re: Soul - Music - posted by crsschk (), on: 2008/6/7 7:29

A very good article and was glad to see this component keyed in on;
If all music (regardless of the lyrics) has a message, then what is the message communicated by the music of CCM? If nearly all of the effects produced by contemporary music’s beat, repetition, and loudness are negative and is mildly hypnotic and can become addictive then the same is true to a degree with CCM. Such music produces chemical reactions in your body that encourage aggressive and emotional behavior. Those same physiological reactions prevent you from thinking and judging rationally. By the same token, contemporary music’s beat, repetition, and loudness unmistakably conveya mood of defiance, rebelliousness, aggressiveness, and self-assertiveness. Clearly these effects are neither “morally excellent” nor “noble” nor “praiseworthy.” Bad music, regardless of comparatively “good” lyrics,communicates a bad message.

How is it that music can affect me? The music itself, regardless of the words, affects your emotions. Even if there are no words to a song or a tune, it affects you. Everybody knows this. Lullabies put babies to sleep regardless of the words. National anthems can at times create feelings of pride or move listeners to tears. Some of the most powerful music ever written — like Beethoven and Wagner — contained no words. Ask any young person why they like rock music and they always say something about the beat or tempo. They are admitting that, regardless of the words, the music itself is quite powerful.
This is important. It means that “good” words does not make something good music. Regardless of the "good" lyrics, the musical score itself has an impact on the listener. Assessing music as good or bad or acceptable or unacceptable, is not simply a matter of evaluating the words. You must evaluate the tune also, because the sounds themselves affect you.

Have lost track of how many replies I have stored away whenever this subject is broached. It is very close to me in the sense that for years my whole life was geared around music and my goal in life was to become a musician professionally,a guitar players - guitar player and a 'rock star'. It is a somewhat difficult subject to express rightly from my perspective...

Probably one of the things that bothers the most to be frank about it is some of the religious outcry from a variety of even good preachers and most not so good pontificating upon the evils of rock music\rap music what have you when they begin extrapolating over it without really having any knowledge of what they are taking about. It is a lot of speculation made fact, it is 'demonic' where it really is just soulish, it is too often exaggerated and made pragmatic to furnish or feed a point. It is the mix of dishonesty with right concern that doesn't need the embellishments. much more could be said.Recognize this is geared more towards CCM and to be again honest think I have less of a problem with the 'worlds' music in the sense that "they know not what they do" or they are more correctly doing what all of us ever did (1Co 6:11) Andsuch were some of you: before we were washed,... sanctified, ...justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit
of our God. Think there is often more sheer honesty in the secular than in the parroting or "Christianizing" that goes on in CCM.
During all those years spent involved and dedicated to this pursuit of grandeur I was also of the exacting emphasis on the opposite, that it wasn't the lyrics but the music, the notes and chords, the musicianship, that the lyrics were secondary though not without import. It puts me in a bit of a predicament now when I must confess that it was a lyric itself from the guitar player of the notorious 'devil' himself, Ozzy Osbourne that finally broke me into repentance, it's part and parcel of my testimony that can be found here ...
All this backdrop only to say this ... The out takes from the article above I think are a key understanding that is too often overlooked. In a word it is manipulation. Music is manipulative in a variety of ways. It is often quite abused especially in Christianity, I am just now thinking of Benny Hinn and his use of playing the "Hallelujah" chorus over and over again (if you have ever been in one of his meetings) it's a conditioning like it or not, a manipulation playing upon the emotions in it's endless repetition, hypnotic, trance like.Because of my entrenchment and constant piped in music ... I never went anywhere without a Walk-man, it was as much part of my dress as putting on your socks ... any car I ever owned always had a minimum of 6 speakers, amplifiers, equalizers ... I could go on and on with details. Always 'jamming' with our band, after school on weekends ... stereo on constantly, the collection of records had to be upwards of 750 and was constantly making and mixing new tapes ...
Then all of a sudden it just kind of stopped. Must put it that way because I don't know where that point really was. When the Lord arrested me for good things began to ... fall off by degree's. Some were instantaneous, cursing for instance, notby deliberate effort but by that backward notice later on down the line. The music I kept at in the same manner for a longtime, interspersing the various CCM products here and there, most of what I found pretty shallow and of poor musicality to be honest. Was already a big Styrper fan for years prior in my confused searching after God, they were an important part in leading me up to and into the Light at last, even if so many years later.I must stress that hardly a fraction of any of this ultimate leaving off of music was deliberate, I had heard and been bombarded with the Moral Majority, with a nagging brother who used to follow me around to 'witness' at and to me ... all the arguments, all the "devil's music", all the people telling me about bands that I knew so well, had read about and listened totheir interviews, everything I could get my hands on, it just fell on deaf ears, they didn't know the first thing they were talking about.
It was hindsight that I recognized that I just couldn't allow my spirit to be played around with like a rag doll any longer. I had already left off unaware before this recognition came about. I didn't like being manipulated emotionally and uncontrollably even if I had given myself to it. It was no different than the drugs that were all part and parcel and combined into it.
Could well go into all that as well, there is a demonic element to be sure that you open yourself up into by allowing something, someone else to conduct your thinking for you ... but that is another subject entirely.
This soulish aspect needs more scrutiny I believe. It is unfortunate that the argument almost always goes in a tit-for-tat momentum when discussing music, the lyrics or the music -ignore one or the other, defend one or the other, argue one or the other. Legalism comes into play as well as conscience and perhaps even development along the way, growth and
learning the knowledge of the Lord. "Others may but you cannot" the great article that has been posted here frequently ... I could no more press my experience or convictions upon another than anyone else, just the concern over this over looking of what we might allow ourselves to be manipulated by. The things we put into our ears and those that we allow our eyes to gaze upon, the tweaking of our spirits, the soulish appeal, that lower nature aspect ... It is often very subtle these things that condition and tweak with our minds, body, soul, spirit."[/size]

If there are any problems with spacing ,format ect.. it's my fault I tried to copy it from a file. :-)

 2009/2/4 20:07


You know I have to say that I find it interesting how the same people who are against rap on one thread are not against it on Krispy's??

Are you for rap now whereas you were not June of 2008?

 2009/2/4 20:21

Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285


1.Can God get glory from men who would rather rap then sing?
2.can rap music be reformed to glorify God?
3.How fast is a beat untill it is considerd sinful?
If these men are rapping unto the Lord then let them be...
" Who art thou that judgest another man servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth." Rom 14:4

check it out before you judge it.
here is the church that shai linne goes to...


 2009/2/4 21:08Profile

Joined: 2007/2/28
Posts: 86


"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven

against all the godlessness and viciousness

Of hypocrites who suppress the truth in wickedness

Since what may be known about God is plain to them

Because He made it plain to them in their craniums

You can’t look at nature and not see God’s glory

His infinite being manifested in His story

From the farthest reaches of the universe

Back to earth which has in fact been cursed

Because of sinful man trying to make mockery

Of God’s grace with lying, hate and debauchery

Greed, jealousy, strife, evil

All types of people live life that’s illegal"

Every line in that verse can be referenced back to scripture. That's the beauty of these reformed rappers songs'. Cause the lyrics are so saturated with scripture and can totally be edifying IMO. Every time I listen to some of these songs I feel like i'm having a Bible study class.

To God be the glory


 2009/2/4 22:45Profile


This is divisive.

Maybe I was overboard with saying 99%... but the fact is in any style of music in Christendom there are plenty of fakers. Plenty of goats. I dare say there are more of them in southern gospel than in any other music form. I was raised around it, I've seen it with my own eyes.

When I say I would take a rapper from CMR over [i]most[/i] Southern Gospel singers... thats not divisive.

All I'm doing is pointing out that it's real easy to condemn a style of music one doesnt like... but when the light is turned on our own sacred cow... we squirm.


 2009/2/5 8:04


You know I have to say that I find it interesting how the same people who are against rap on one thread are not against it on Krispy's??

What you don't understand is that there is a huge difference between mainstream Christian rap... and the Christian rap that is being produced by Cross Movement Records.

This thread really isnt about Christian rap as it is about Cross Movement Records particularly.


 2009/2/5 8:06

Joined: 2008/5/5
Posts: 21

 Re: Sonofman

You definitely cannot try to relate parables and rap in the same sentence. Parables didnt come with a look, a style, and a beat behind them, and look exactly the way the world does. Rap, both Christian and secular is defined by the Culture. The Christian rappers will follow the style of secular rappers because the secular is the womb of it. It has always been this way and will always be this way.


 2009/2/5 8:45Profile


...and most pastors in America dress in suits and look just like the crooked politicians and Wall Street fat cats that have wrecked our economy.

What does a Christian look like?

Didnt Paul say:

[b]1 Corinthians 9:19-23[/b]

[i]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews [b]I became as a Jew[/b], that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, [b]as under the law[/b], that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, [b]as without law[/b], (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak [b]became I as weak[/b], that I might gain the weak: [b]I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some[/b]. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.[/i]

I think we should become all things to all men to save some... just as Paul did. Granted, it's mainly "christians" CMR artists are reaching, but most "christians" are not truly saved. What a mission field the "church" is.


 2009/2/5 8:59

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7504

 Re: Christian Rap - Cross Movement Records


You want to know what whether anyone has heard "of these guys". No, I haven't until I clicked on that link you provided.

Krispy, I do not like the racket they make. It does not sit well in my spirit at all. You might as well take your fingernails and scratch the blackboard - it would make just as much sense and be just as musical.

Brother, can you imagine this type of performance before the THRONE as portrayed in Revelation 4? The music of the saints before the great THRONE are God centered, beautiful. This rap group is all about entertainment with religion thrown in to appeal to "Christians" but fail in many parts. It is so self-centered one cannot even hear the message.

Godly music is Christ centered, speaks of Him and his glory. Not only do the lyrics honor God, the sound is pleasing to the ears as well. The story is said of G. F. Handel that an assistant found him at his piano, sheets of music strewn around him, tears streaming down his face. "I do believe I have seen all of Heaven before me, and the great God Himself," he exclaimed. Somehow, this rap racket is a far cry from Handel’s Messiah or any godly music that has been loved by the saints of bygone years..

Krispy, this is not godly music at all. The VRROOMM of a tractor pull has just as much inspiration if not more then this...the mega/souped-up-tractors do not profess to be Christian, just an exhibit of man's ability to make powerful motors. I think I prefer a tractor pull to a concert of rappers.

Seriously, Krispy, why do you not take your guitar and teach your little Kritters songs like "What a Friend we have in Jesus" or "The Old Rugged Cross", "What Can Wash Away My Sin?" or "'Tis Midnight, and on Olive's Brow" or "When I survey the Wondrous Cross", or "How Great Thou Art", "No Disappointment in Heaven", or "Each Step I Take", or "I Know that My Redeemer Liveth" and many others.

Krispy, can you imagine David, the shepherd boy, singing like those rappers? I suggest if he would have acted like that in front of those sheep, they would have scattered. And I am a sheep...


Sandra Miller

 2009/2/5 11:31Profile

Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285


what makes us think that the only way God is really worshiped is through a certain type of music.
what Kind of sound is pleasing to God? 17th century hymns, voices only ?
Do you think that tribes in Africa or islanders in southeast asia who are Christan sing, 17and 18th century hymns, like we do here?
sometimes we are so quick to label things unclean or clean based on what we like?

I was talking to a missonary named David Sitton,( his sermons on on this website) and he said a big problem of American missionaries is that we like to take over a culture with our American culture.. Instead of letting each culture learn how to worship God it's own way. Every tribe, nation, and tongue will be worshipping God.. not just the english language or english written songs written 400 years ago. God is in the business of reforming the world.even certain types of music.
These guys our impacting people thru music, preaching and thier lives in inner cities..



 2009/2/5 12:05Profile

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