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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: A Piece in the Puzzle? : - )

I think graceamazed's point is good also. I think the Puritan's spoke of plucking unripe fruit. I know that if a banana is picked before it turns yellow it will never ripen. Store bought bananas have been picked while 'pale' (green) and transported thousands of miles. When they arrive at the warehouse they are 'gassed' with the essential element that they had not yet received from the tree. They then begin to turn yellow in a few days or weeks.

Chris,

I think you may be onto something here. I traced the word for 'measure' in the passage in the Greek and came to the familiar passage in Ephesians:

[color=000066]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which [u]every[/u] joint supplieth, according to [u]the effectual working in the measure of every part[/u], maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (Ephesians 4) [/color]

It is the effectual working in the measure of every part that makes increase of the Body. When each part of the Body is functioning properly in its own place, then we are in position for increase of the body as well as an edifying of itself.

I cross reference this with Ron Bailey's message on the Word of His grace (preached at Greenock) and it seems that the growth of the body is not the result of huge evangelistic campaigns, but a healthy Body in which each member is functioning in its proper place.

If one thinks about it, natural cell division will make increase of a 'body', but it has to be all of the cells increasing in equilibrium or a 'tumor' or 'cancer' develops. This is an amazing picture and one that truly has the potential to relieve the pressure of thinking that I have to somehow duplicate myself en masse.

So we see once again that a properly functioning local body of believers in which each member is working effectually in love will increase and edify itself as a matter of course.

Make sense?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/4 3:47Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.


We are to preach and teach what He tells us through His word. He tells us what,when,and where and the results are up to Him.

When was spending time with Him replaced by what man thinks?
Spend the time on your knees you are wasting here and you will not need to ask one another what one should preach.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2009/2/4 5:14Profile
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
Spend the time on your knees you are wasting here and you will not need to ask one another what one should preach.




pastorfrin,

That wasn't very nice. For a change, this has been a good and healthy discussion. Besides, I believe you have a 4 star, 'home away from home' rating with over 1,300 posts yourself.


_________________
Mike Jones

 2009/2/4 7:01Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Spend the time on your knees you are wasting here and you will not need to ask one another what one should preach.



Do you know how much time any one of us spend or have spent before God seeking Him in our callings to make such a statement?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/4 7:54Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I am wondering also about the importance of evangelism within the context of a local church. If a local church has some that actively go out to minister as the result of the Holy Spirit putting His hand on them for the ministry- it would seem that the process of building [i]that[/i] local church would be realized.

One of the great problems with mass evangelism is where to send the new converts'. It becomes a situation where churches seek to gather these into their local churches so they participate in the meetings, etc. hoping to gain converts I am not convinced this is a biblical method.

I am thinking that God's design is much more pointed than that. There are specific individuals that are being drawn towards Christ that He has already purposed for them to be in a certain assembly. If we follow the direction of Ephesians 4 and examples in Acts it would seem that God would bring us to the right folk at the right time and build His church. It is what He said, "[b][u]I[/u][/b] will build [u]my[/u] Church..." So it just seems to me that we need more specific direction from the ground up beginning with specific direction within a local congregation.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/4 8:08Profile
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Before this gets too out of line, I would like to add a personal note.

Before I discovered SI, my morning time with God was the thing I thought of when I went to bed at night and the first thing I thought of when I woke the next morning. I have to admit, I caught myself the other day and realized that was no longer the case.

It had got to the point that the last thing I did before going to bed was check SI and the first thought when I woke up was about SI. The Lord didn't beat me up over it, but He brought it to mind and I had to admit the truth in it.

Since, I have corrected that mindset. I still enjoy posting, and lately it seems I have been doing a fair amount, but I have put it all back into perspective.

So as I understand where pastorfrin was coming from, I like RobertW was at least a little offended that it was assumed that since we spend time posting, that we are not spending time with God.

I am trying in my post's to see some of them as an opportuntiy for ministry. Some, like the one's in this thread are more just those who are somewhat mature in the Lord, sharing their thoughts with each other, which I might add is biblical as we build each other up.

Though I can relate to the feelings expressed by pastorfrin, for I have had them myself, I would at least like to make known that I have put it all back into it's proper perspective and would urge all to do the same if it applies.


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Mike Jones

 2009/2/4 8:14Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, my story is that after getting saved,i entered the ministry with the man who lead me to Jesus.i became associate evangelist in this ministry;preaching in churches around the country.because i had little holiness in my thaught life, i quit....before i acted sinfully,bringing reproach on Jesus and the ministry and went back into the nightclub business. after being kicked out of the church i was attending and blasted often by 'christians' i began to hate the smug religeous people teling me to repent.ron carter...God bless him came to me one day and asked me to dinner where he told me he was from my home and was a student at the seminary...nobts...oh oh...but then he told me that Jesus loved me just like i was... the Holy Spirit came on me so strongly that i wept uncontrolably and i have served the Lord for over 40 yrs ever since see thousands saved and blessed by God.jimp love has power ...fear has torment

 2009/2/4 8:22Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
So as I understand where pastorfrin was coming from, I like RobertW was at least a little offended that it was assumed that since we spend time posting, that we are not spending time with God.



There are some people that frequent these forums that have [u]no[/u] church home whatsoever. They are not in a house church or a local church. For them these forums are a great portion of the 'fellowship' (even though it is cyber fellowship) that they receive. I have become increasingly sensitive to this fact over the years here.

Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and think about SI. I think about the discussions and conversations. I think about the fellowship. Having been able to meet many of the dear brothers here on SI and spend time with them I see it much more personally. Behind the avatars and code names these are [i]real[/i] people that have real issues in life like everyone else. They have feelings. They are human. They need encouragement. They want to please God.

So I take these forums very seriously personally. Someone may need to be encouraged or someone may be acting out bringing discouragement and I react to that. We are real people here. We are not a number or a combination of numbers and letter. This is real fellowship and I try to be sensitive to that. To me it is as real as any past letter type correspondence- it only happens more swiftly.

That said I think we need to always be in a prayerful state of mind here on SI. We need the mind of Christ. We need compassion. It is when the conversations no longer edify that this forum denigrates to just another abusive internet forum or chat room.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/4 9:58Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Mike and Robert

Brothers,

If you would read my post again I think you will see that I was not criticizing anyone for number of post or time spent on SI. That would be a bit hypocritical.


How do you get this:

Quote:
So as I understand where pastorfrin was coming from, I like RobertW was at least a little offended that it was assumed that since we spend time posting, that we are not spending time with God.





From this:

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.


We are to preach and teach what He tells us through His word. He tells us what,when,and where and the results are up to Him.

When was spending time with Him replaced by what man thinks?
Spend the time on your knees you are wasting here and you will not need to ask one another what one should preach.

In His Love
pastorfrin
*********************************************

Brothers,

I hope this is easier for you to understand than my original post.

I was pointing out ‘though you both left it out of your quotes’ that we are to hear from God and not man and the whole idea of asking one another what you think works best in preaching the word is a waste of His time, and only continues to encourage man to trust in man.

The Lord tells you what works best for every given service and situation and all who wait on Him know that.

You are both right, I have no idea how much time you spend in prayer and or waiting before Him. I do not question either of you about such things.

I have found over the years that there is a truth to be told in the questions that people ask.

Please forgive me if I have offended either of you, I did not intend to do so.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2009/2/5 4:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Pastorfrin's: Please forgive me if I have offended either of you, I did not intend to do so.



Hi Pastorfrin,

No apology needed. I agree heartedly with the need to be sensitive to God in prayer, meditation, study, and as I have ministered before, during and after the sermon or teaching. I have always tried to be consciously leaning upon God for His grace. I have nothing in myself to truly help anyone. I believe this is as was Christ's pattern and I have endeavored to do that over the years.

The real bottom line in this thread, as I have thought about it, is how sinners still have a free moral agency with which they must decide if they will or will not serve God. I have always believed that 'more light' is the solution. If we have enough 'light' then sinners will repent. Truly I have dedicated my whole life to understanding the Gospel and I still am in search for the silver bullet (as someone stated). What group of circumstances, what combination of effects (message, unction, sensitivity to God, prophetic element, miracles, signs, wonders, etc.) are in play to secure the repentance of a sinner?

I have been particularly distraught in the past when I [i]was[/i] a youth pastor to see such a very small percentage of young people serve God into their adult years. I blamed the statistics on pizza, Pepsi, popcorn and ping-pong parties. I blamed worldly self-seeking youth pastors. I blamed a weak and powerless message devoid of unction. I blamed lazy workers unwilling to pray young people through.

So when I became youth pastor I took a broom to the ministry. I was in reputation as absolutely no-nonsense, sober, ministry. I believed that preaching with power and authority coupled with long altar calls was the answer. SO we prayed many times for a hour or more for folk until many parents were aggravated and some refused to allow the kids to come to evening services midweek.

So then I blamed the parents that if they wanted to keep their kids out of prison they would keep them in the service. I said many times that if it were a ballgame they would not care how long the service lasted. It's not as if ministers are paid by the hour and are trying intentionally to drag something out.

And after all is said and done I look back and see almost identical results. The catch word is now 'discipleship'. We need to 'disciple' them. So I have prayerfully taken on that role after almost a year of seeking God and will begin again seeking God for clear direction on how to proceed. I think we all just need to be faithful to continue to respond to any light the Lord gives us in the building of His Church. I suppose precious stones are a rare thing- yet I have presumed I could minister and they become commonplace. Perhaps that idea is what I must reckon with first.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/5 6:40Profile





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