SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Repentance preaching

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:

MJones wrote:
RebeccaF,

I wasn't sure I was going to like your point when I first started reading it. But I read it twice and think I like it very much. I especially like and agree with the highlighted text, which is I guess why you highlighted it.

If you think about it, your point allows for both types of preaching that has been talked about in this thread - the preaching that emphasizes our need of repentance and the preaching that calls us to a relationship with a God that loves us (so that it is not misunderstood, when I say this, I don't mean that we emphasize the love of God and do not require repentence, I mean that the effect of the love of God in our lives will in itself cause repentance)

The key is proclaiming publicly what we hear in secret - there is a verse to that effect. And the key there is that we first hear.

Edwards message, who is known for one end of the spectrum, was effective because he heard it in secret. I think I remember hearing Edwards wife though, commenting on how she liked the gracious style of Whitefields messages.

There is room for both and God in His wisdom and sovereignty is able to lead those who are sensitive enough to hear the living word of God, and not just the written one (meaning there is the aspect of God making His written word come to life when He speaks it to us). When we proclaim this living word, whether it hammers the need to repent or tenderly speaks of God's love and grace, it has the end effect of drawing those who hear it to God.




I'm glad you didn't take it wrong. What I gather from reading this from Watchman Nee, basically is that their is a time and place for everything and only God knows that time and place and we must be walking in the spirit totally in reliance on Him or we could be in rebellion against His will.

I don't think Watchman Nee, is saying we need to pick ourselves apart and disect every little thing we do for the Lord under a microscope wondering if it has His seal of approval is on it but it seems that he is just saying that we can't just operate any old way we like and expect God to bless it.

 2009/2/3 9:34
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Robert, I wonder how many others feel this way as well. I do. We believe that we have shared a salvation message and have prayed much and sought for the unction of the Spirit, but have not witnessed the move of God we were hoping for. Was it because of sin in our lives ? Quite likely this has been part of the explanation.



I can say personally that I have preached repentance in times of the greatest victory I have ever known and it did not seem to matter. I don't think a person could really preach repentance with conviction if they had sin in their life. That's just always been my feeling. But there can be an underlying elitism as Paul West mentioned that may be in fact hindering the message? We can get proud and not see the sin that God truly hates? Brokenness and victory don't easily walk hand in hand.

I guess I am continually challenged as I look again to this thread by the fact that neither Finney or Wesley were hearing any kind of 'repentance' message when they turned to Christ and were born again. It just seems to me that there is no real cookie cutter type method of reaching folk. I think of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Again, seemingly just God meeting the man where He was and visiting him with the Gospel. Almost as if God was preparing the man to hear and then led Phillip that way.

I also think of the passage that comes into play from I Cor 3:

[color=000066] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 [u]For we are labourers together with God[/u]: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [/color]

There is a sense in which God is at work and the minister is at work [i]together[/i] to secure the salvation of souls. It seems to me that the objective is to see folk turn to Christ in full regeneration so that they are free from Sin and are in Christ as New Creatures.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/3 9:57Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
guess I am continually challenged as I look again to this thread by the fact that neither Finney or Wesley were hearing any kind of 'repentance' message when they turned to Christ and were born again. It just seems to me that there is no real cookie cutter type method of reaching folk.


I too am totally convinced that there is no cookie-cutter method. I am also continually challenged by not only the way guys like Finney and Wesley and Luther came to know God, but myself as well. There wasn't any repentance trumpetings, no soul-hot exhortations, no "turn or burn, get right or get left" broadcasts. I just somehow [i]knew[/i] what I had to do, and the Holy Spirit sovereignly showed me that I needed to settle the account with God. It was a most sacred, solemn moment I shall never forget. I didn't know the Word of God, I didn't know theology, I didn't know how to pray, I didn't know about the principles of sanctification, or even what the sinner's prayer was...and especially what the meaning of the word "repentance" was: I just knew I was a sinner and that Christ had paid it all. And then faith took over, and I've never been the same since.

In the midst of my Whitefield, Wesley, Finney street-preaching days, I drifted away from that original conversion experience. I allowed myself to be bamboozled into believing I could somehow effectuate a similar experience in others simply by preaching repentance with a soul-hot fervor. But it never worked the way I had anticipated. I would see decisions, but the decisions amounted to nothing but a morning fog that slowly dissapated as the day wore on.

Should we stop preaching repentance? No. We do as the Lord tells us to do, governed by the Spirit. As brother Robert said, we have no account in the Word of God of Phillip preaching repentance to the Ethiopian eunuch. I understand this as the Holy Spirit's subtle way of showing us there are no cut-and dry cookie cutter methods when it comes to the New Birth. The key, I believe, is to be sensitive to God's leading in all cases and circumstances; there may be times (as I have experienced) when God tell me not to mention a certain component of the repentance message to an individual, but rather lift up the unspeakable love and mercy of God. And this was exactly what the person needed to hear; it was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back that was keeping him/her from fully embracing the mercy of the cross. With others, God may instruct you to give your testimony. With yet others, God may forbid you to give your testimony. There is no cookie-cutter method. And we will spend the rest of our lives learning how to discern the perfect will of God for each situation. This is the difference between Christianity at the kindergarten level, and Christianity at the phD level in the school of God.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2009/2/3 10:43Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I would see decisions, but the decisions amounted to nothing but a morning fog that slowly dissapated as the day wore on.



I was thinking as I read Bro. Paul's post about various people I have watched that did not repent no matter what God did for them. I [u]used[/u] to believe that if the circumstances with just 'right' and God intervened and saved them from their calamity- they would turn to Him.

I knew a man once that I had prayed for a lot. He had been diagnosed with cancer on 2 previous occasions and the Lord brought him through. On the 3rd occasion he had a tennis ball sized tumor in his lungs (lung cancer) from smoking all his life. I thought for sure that if God raised him up- he would turn to Christ. He was as good as dead. One foot in the grave and another on a banana peeling. Amazingly the Lord brought him through the chemo and radiation with about less than a full lung left. Did he repent at this time? [u]No.[/u]

I was rattled by it. I was sifted in a sense, because I believed that if the miracle was powerful enough and God had manifested Himself enough then surely-, SURELY... the person would repent. When they did not, I was very confused as a young minister. So then I thought, if miracles won't do it- it must be the word of repentance preached with power and authority. Then I realized that the word of repentance was trod under foot at the same level as the Divine miracles.

In the midst of it all I also had thoughts along the lines of a previous poster that thought it must be 'sin' in our lives. Too much sin in the camp, etc. I knew that personalities like Billy Graham were not the answer, but just for good measure I was a counselor for a crusade in 2004 (?). Almost no fruit and millions were spent along with many months of preparational fasting and prayer. What did I do? I blamed the 'sinners prayer' as the culprit. I traced the history of that prayer down and wrote about it; it was helpful- but still no answer.

So I think Paul West is right. We will spend the rest of our lives learning to be sensitive to God in seeing souls saved. Truly we have need of patience.










_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/3 12:19Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
...myself as well. There wasn't any repentance trumpetings, no soul-hot exhortations, no "turn or burn, get right or get left" broadcasts. I just somehow knew what I had to do, and the Holy Spirit sovereignly showed me that I needed to settle the account with God.



My experience is similar. I had not been in a church for over ten years. I had not read a Gospel tract, been witnessed to, or cracked open a Bible for at least that long as well.


I was home all alone. My thoughts were far from God.

I had just finished pouring myself another drink when I encountered such Truth and Light that my life till that moment was exposed to me for the wickedness that it was. For the first time in my life I saw myself as a sinner. I knew God was real and that I desperately needed to ‘get right’ with Him.

I drove to three churches that night. One was full of folks having a New Years Eve celebration. No pastors, preachers, or teachers could be found. One “youth leader type guy” just stuttered and stammered when I explained my situation. The next church was dark but what appeared to be the parsonage next door was lit up with widows and doors open. I knocked for several minutes and waited in the parking lot for at least twenty more. Nothing. The next church had a few people in it, but like the first one, they just acted nervous and told me to wait around for the preacher. While waiting I read their billboard; it was littered with sayings and slogans. I immediately felt an almost palatable uneasiness and returned home.

During the next few days, few weeks…few months…God slowly revealed to me what I needed to know.

I still thank God that none of those preachers could be found that night.


_________________
TJ

 2009/2/3 13:35Profile
live4jc
Member



Joined: 2008/10/2
Posts: 203


 Re:


Hi TJ,

Praise God ! That was a blessing to read of the work that God did in your heart. :-)

In Jesus,
John

 2009/2/3 14:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:

live4jc wrote:

Hi TJ,

Praise God ! That was a blessing to read of the work that God did in your heart. :-)

In Jesus,
John



Amen, thanks for sharing that. That is one of the best schools of God is a testimony. :-)

God knows just what it takes to draw us to Him. I was saved while listening to a preacher on a christian radio broadcast.

I lke this testimony too from "Back To Jerusalem" about [url=http://www.backtojerusalem.com/pdf/articles/MohammedAndTheBusDriver.pdf]Mohammed and the Bus Driver[/url] I guess some would question it but I believe it's true. God is a very personal, intimate, loving heavenly father that knows just what it takes to bring you to Him. I have heard many times testimonies of those who lived in remote parts of the world without anyone to witness to them and the Lord would come to them in dreams or visions. Our God is an awesome God! He is definately not a cookie cutter God.



 2009/2/3 15:05
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

I think it is important to point out that even though we may not have seen the results we would like in our preaching and teaching, etc., it is important that we remain faithful to continue in the ministry that God has given to us.

I thought also about the passage in Matthew:

[color=000066] But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

He answered and said, I will not: but [u]afterward[/u] he repented, and went.

And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, [u]repented not afterward[/u], that ye might believe him.(Matthew 21)[/color]

The word 'afterward' here could mean any range of time from minutes to years. We are not told how long 'afterward' actually was in this case. And it seems that many times folk 'afterward' turn to Christ, but the question is- how will we react to the [i]afterward[/i] of a sinners life?




_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2009/2/3 22:33Profile
graceamazed
Member



Joined: 2008/11/3
Posts: 77
Tennessee

 Re:

Quote:
We will spend the rest of our lives learning to be sensitive to God in seeing souls saved. Truly we have need of patience.



The Puritans described the role of a minister in the work of salvation as similar to the role of a mid-wife in a delivery. Labor and delivery progress through many stages and its important that the mid-wife is able to recognize what the birthing mother is experiencing and to then encourage her or take action as would be appropriate. It would be disastrous for the mid-wife to assume that she can make the pregnant woman give birth whenever she so decides. No, the mid-wife is only there to assist in the process.

Likewise, we ministers of the Lord can not assume we can effectuate the work of regeneration in the sinners life whenever we so decide. We must be wise and recognize how the Lord is working in the life of the sinner and then seek His guidance on how to be of assistance in the process.

Thinking in this manner has helped me significantly over the years.


_________________
Buck Yates

 2009/2/3 23:00Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


Robert,


Quote:
But I am equally concerned that in an attempt to somehow balance the false Gospel some are presenting an equally 'false' Gospel only the other extreme. And because the typical attitude is 'stricter' = more spiritual- it is passes off as legit.




I think I can appreciate what you are sharing in that. If it was an error for [b]the Hebrews[/b] to move the Ark on a cart, it wouldn't nescessarily be better to stand on it and shout at people with an angry face and a loud voice.




Recently, a passage in 2 Corinthians has stood out to me, where the Apostle Paul writes,



"But we will not boast of things without [i]our[/i] measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. For we stretch not ourselves [i]beyond our[/i] measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in [i]preaching[/i] the gospel of Christ:"


- 2 Corinthians 10:13-14(KJV)


I think also of how he said that God had made him and others 'able ministers of the new testament'(2Cor 3:1-6). And I think too of how he said he had fully preached the Gospel "through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God"(Rom 15:15-19).



Whether his speech was contemptible, or only to his adversaries(v10), doesn't seem to have made any difference.




I suppose in a topic like this John the Baptist comes to mind.


I think too of how in John the Apostle's record of the Gospel it says,


"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [i]unto him[/i]."

- John 3:34(KJV)


And how it was written of John the Baptist,


"There was a man sent from God, whose name [i]was[/i] John."

- John 1:6(KJV)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2009/2/3 23:46Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy