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 Re:

Oh boy... everyone hold one! The train is going off the tracks!

Krispy

 2009/1/26 12:23
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Oh boy... everyone hold one! The train is going off the tracks!

Krispy



That's "hold on" not hold one. :-P
Also my train has always run beside the tracks, you know why? because I am not perfect, by the way how does it feel up yonder on the tracks? I bet the ride is a lot smoother. Sometimes Mr. Bill feels like Job, but that's ok as long as my results are the same. :-P


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 12:28Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 Re:

Guess, I will jump into this train wreck as you call it.

Speaking about forgiving errant Pastors, it is my understanding that to be forgiven, one must repent and ask for forgiveness. I am ready and willing to forgive. I do not seek to condemn but in my opinion, anyone who does not ask for forgiveness is condemning themselves.

The world has corrupted so much it is not possible to hear a sermon or read anything that man writes (myself included here) and not see it influenced by the world. There are none Holy.

But, some are trying, I encourage that and long for that in myself. Everyday God gives is another day to strive to be Holy. I know I will always fall short but that does not justify not trying.

Speaking of Job, to have his faith in God would be sustaining. Thanks to Jesus we only have to have the faith of a little child.

Kind regards,
white stone


_________________
Janice

 2009/1/26 12:57Profile









 Re:



To MrBillPro & MJones:

In Communist Russia, just before Perestroika came about, a group of Christians were meeting secretly in a home. There was a knock on the door, and when it was opened the KGB Rushed into the room, with their guns drawn and ready. They announced that anyone who really did not believe in Jesus Christ could leave, because they were going to kill everyone who was a believer. Over ½ of the Church cleared out, and ran for dear life. Once they were gone, the leader closed the door and locked it and said---“Now that the non-believers have left, let’s Worship and Praise God and His Son, Jesus Christ”. All of these KGB men had come to belief in Jesus Christ, and knew that there were counterfeit Christians in the midst of the underground Christian Church. They wanted to worship in safety, after the counterfeits had been cleared out.

How did Peter & John and the other disciples respond to the Gospel in Acts, Chapter 3 and after that? Did they deny Jesus Christ as the only Lord and the Resurrected Savior once? No, never. After Acts 1, when the disciples were empowered by the Holy Ghost, they never wavered. They responded boldly to the truth, and went to prison for it, and eventually died for it!. How about Stephen, did he waiver, ever?. No, he died for the truth. How about Ananias, with Sapphira? What was their penalty for lying to the Holy Spirit? Death and hell!

During the reformation, men and women of God died for their testimony. Pick up Foxe’s “Voice of the Martyrs” and see what happened to William Tyndale (1494-1536), George Wishart (1546), Felix Manz (1527), Michael Sattler (1495-1527), George Wagner (1527), Balthasar Hubmaier (1480-1528), George Blaurock (1491-1529), John Frith (1503-1533), John Lambert (1538), Dirk Willems (1569), Lady Jane Grey (1554), John Bradford (1510-1555), John Hooper (1555), John Rogers (1500-1555), John Penry (1593) and many, many, millions more. They did not waiver, they did not stretch the truth, and they died excruciating deaths for their beliefs.

Christians have been persecuted for their beliefs since the beginning, and we will be persecuted even more as we enter end time events.[b] The Christian does nothing on his own, by his own flesh, because he has been crucified with Jesus Christ. The Christian is a new creation, that has died to self and is empowered by the Holy Spirit!.[/b] We are commanded to witness to the lost till the end comes:

“18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:18-20

The end is close, and we must be strong in the Lord. He is the one that will get us through whatever we have to face—whether we live or die, we are “in Him”.

[b]In response to your concerns about forgiving others, you are misguided. We are to forgive those that have harmed us personally, as individuals. Those that have harmed us by words or deeds. False Prophets and False Teachers have not hurt us, individually. They are harming Jesus Christ, and His Gospel. His Word, the Anvil, The Bible directs us, his Body, His Church-- and he has given us specific directions in how to deal with them. I have previously posted on this thread Christ’s commands in how to handle false prophets and false teachers, that you have ignored entirely on this thread.

I do pray for Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, and many other false teachers. However, I do not have to forgive them, because they have not hurt me. I am commanded to expose them, in order to draw them back to Christ. I am also commanded to expose them because of their ability to corrupt others in the Body of Christ.[/b]


Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
By the way just for the record here, I am not condoning any sin, or false teachers, I am just forgiving them, why? because I want to be forgiven, I think that is the way it goes, or maybe someone will show me some scripture that's to the contrary, Mr. Bill forgives very easily, you know why? because he has a huge mirror. :-)

 2009/1/26 14:08









 Easy Walter....

slow down....I was marveling over the parable of the humble mustard seed, the same way in my morning devotionals, I've been tracking in Scriptures, when these Words are said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is near"..or "the Kingdom of God is near", and what that means, what that looks like, how you walk it out etc.

Thats been my burden, joyous burden, locked in prayer, wrestling with God.

what I am NOT doing is this, what you ACCUSE me of :

Quote:
Yet according to you Natan, and others like you on this thread, we are supposed to cooperate with these PERVERTERS OF THE GOSPEL and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel--A FALSE GOSPEL.



I never said that,and you should step back a second, and think and pray about this ungraceful tenor with which you accuse me of such. I cooperate with none of these folk, and the Lord knows it.

I am poor in spirit and the Lord knows it, hence this is the last post I make in response to this completely unedifying thread, and I pray the moderators discern as such, and lock this unseemingly display. It give God no Glory.

in Jesus' love to you Walter, neil

 2009/1/26 16:11









 Re: Unsanctified Mercy...your best life now, just as you are.

Mercy without repentance is not mercy at all, but unsanctified mercy. This is why the gospel is centered around repentance from dead works as a prerequisite to Faith.

In 2 Tim chpt: 2, Hymenaeus was marked, as one who said that the resurrection had passed. and had,"overthrown the faith of some." Previously , in 1 Tim: chpt:1, vs. 20, Paul says that he turned him [ Hymenaeus ] over to Satan, that he may learn "not to blaspheme." To some, like say the Mormon faith, multitudes believe another gospel. The momentum from this deception has surely overthrown the faith of some. They will be in the Lake of Fire forever because they believed a lie, and did not receive a love for the truth. The Mormons use the Bible too, and have an element of truth, and "terrific: family life.


So can you see where a true and Biblical gospel matters, in it's purity. The Israelites had to eat unleavened bread for a season, every day, as a point to bring this home... "the Feast of unleavened bread." Leaven is sin, and deceiving teaching. A little sin is like being a little married. It is the same with blasphemous teachers. Jesus is not the only way..in the long run, you will be fine because God is good. He wants you to be a success and live large. The bible states that the result of our faith and lives is that we will become like HIM!..that we will grow up into the fullness of christ, and LOVE, as He loves through us.


This is obtained through dying to ourselves, and hating our own way, as we love His way above all. There is suffering, and a commanded cross we all must bear to accomplish this death and resurrection within ourselves. "I am crucified with Christ, but never the less, I live,,, yet not I , but Christ who lives in me,,,and the life that I live........you know the rest.



This is the walk, and the heart of the faith.



So, if a man , representing himself as a Christian, is marked and rejected, even unto being delivered unto Satan, for preaching that the resurrection s past, how much more judgement for a "Pastor", who preaches that the blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God was irrelevant.......and NOT the only way to the Father;.. We all get to God by our own faith and religion that we choose.

You fail to see the difference between sin, and unbelief. You cannot repent of unbelief, except by believing, and that by the Word of God. Olsteen is a motivational speaker, who believes that God loves everyone, and exists for all to enjoy life, and that would be your best life now.


He ministers unbelief in the sense that He does NOT believe that Jesus is the only path and Savior of mankind...This is Pagan, and evil, and is at the heart of all heresies. Your "wiggle room" here is unacceptable, at least to me, and in my view, would be more in tune with some of the new age sites that proclaim the same ambiguous notions that Jesus fits nicely with the world, and other religions, and that God exists to bless us real good.

 2009/1/26 16:25
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

waltern wrote:
In response to your concerns about forgiving others, you are misguided. We are to forgive those that have harmed us personally, as individuals. Those that have harmed us by words or deeds. False Prophets and False Teachers have not hurt us, individually..



Well then what's all the fuss about? so Pastor Joel is only to be forgiven by folks that he has harmed individually? Walter I am hip to your mission here and Brother I totally understand your heart, but I have yet to read "ANY" Bible verse that tells me there are certain individuals I am not to forgive. So Walter if a drunk person runs over my grand child "I pray this never happens" I am not supposed to or cannot forgive them? only my son or daughter can forgive them? you have really lost me here, I am sorry Bro.


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 16:25Profile









 Re:

To MrBillPro:

I have tried to reply to your misconceptions about forgiveness. Other's have tried as well.

Brothertom had much to say to you about this, and concluded as follows:

This is the walk, and the heart of the faith.

So, if a man , representing himself as a Christian, is marked and rejected, even unto being delivered unto Satan, for preaching that the resurrection s past, how much more judgement for a "Pastor", who preaches that the blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God was irrelevant.......and NOT the only way to the Father;.. We all get to God by our own faith and religion that we choose.

You fail to see the difference between sin, and unbelief. You cannot repent of unbelief, except by believing, and that by the Word of God. Olsteen is a motivational speaker, who believes that God loves everyone, and exists for all to enjoy life, and that would be your best life now.


He ministers unbelief in the sense that He does NOT believe that Jesus is the only path and Savior of mankind...This is Pagan, and evil, and is at the heart of all heresies. Your "wiggle room" here is unacceptable, at least to me, and in my view, would be more in tune with some of the new age sites that proclaim the same ambiguous notions that Jesus fits nicely with the world, and other religions, and that God exists to bless us real good.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]In conclusion to MrBillPro:

Based upon your posts, that are not supported by Scripture, I have to conclude that you have a blindess in regards to who we (Christians)are called to forgive and why. We have been commanded to treat false teachers and prophets, who Christ described as[color=990000] ravening wolves,[/color][/b][b] in specific ways. If it offends you, then your problem is not with me or other Christians who are obedient to God's Word. Your problem is with God Himself- talk to Him about it- fast and pray until you can understand.

My suggestion to you would be to become a Berean, and search the scriptures daily. Read the Word at night, in the evening. Disconnect your Television and radio and study God's Word. On your lunch break, study God's Word. Wake up in the morning and spend quiet time with the Lord by praying back His Word to Him.

Internaize His Word- "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:12-13

Sincerley,

Walter

P.S.
We have some friends who have been missionaries to Africa for over 40 years. Idi Amin, the butcher of Uganda was in power and they (Richard & Dorothy Bennett) were led by the Spirit to preach at the time of the waning of his power. They were in a large building, full of Christian believers. Dorothy was at the podium, teaching the mixed audience of men and women. The locked door was broken and many soldiers came into the room, armed with AK 47's. The leader came up to the stage and pointed his gun into the chest of Dorothy Bennett, and said--"it is time for you to die". She responded, "no, it time for you to meet my Savior, Jesus Christ who died for you." The power of the Holy Spirit fell over this man, and he dropped the rifle and fell to his knees, and said "I must meet this woman's God".

He was convicted of his sin and accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord & Savior, and no one was killed! What Satan meant for evil, God turned it around, and made it for good.

That is what we have, as Christian believers---we are "new creations", and are led by the Holy Spirit, who lives within our hearts, where Jesus sits upon the Throne. We have been:
Crucified with Christ
We are dead with Christ
We were buried with Christ
We were made alive with Christ
We were raised together with Christ
We are sufferers with Christ
We are glorified with Christ[/b]




 2009/1/26 18:13
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Well Walter I have a news flash for you and those here that have not heard this, "MY PASTOR" Joel Osteen did repent and ask God for forgiveness in front of 18,000 of us at Church shortly after his Larry King episode,I am sorry you were not personally there to hear. If you want to go on with your attitude towards him, your more than welcome but that will be between you and God, right? by the way you need to quit watching so much TV because you must watch it some Larry King is a TV person last I heard. By the way Pastor Joel does believe that Jesus Christ "IS" the only way into the Kingdom, I am sorry he made a mistake on national TV that some have not let him live down, because they like to harbor unforgiveness, now can we change directions here and talk about the thousand other Pastors out there that are not perfect? I won't personally do it, but I will read about it thought, so post away.


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 18:35Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
I realize that such a statement will harelip many of the self-righteous, and Calvinists who don't believe that Christ died for the ungodly; however, Romans 5:6 clearly silences them... "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.



I do not know which Calvinists you are talking about, but any that I know would agree that Christ died for the ungodly, even more than that, He bought all who will come to faith in Him.

Please do not misrepresent fellow brethren in an attempt to make a point, because that is lying about what we(Calvinists) believe.

Quote:
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."



You might want to do a little grammar check on this passage before making it mean Christ where it says "Lord" as the Greek word is not the same one used though the NT for Christ(kurios), but is rather Master(despotes) and is indicative of God's Sovereign rule and ownership of all life.

You would also have to wonder then if Christ was lying when He said that all that the Father had given Him would be saved. For if these men were truly Christians, they would not have denied the Master.

The fact that they did makes this verse bring more light on the topic-
1 Peter 2:8 and "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense." [b]They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.[/b]

I don't want this to be a discussion on Cal/Arm, but I thought that the misrepresentation was both unfair and uncalled for.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2009/1/26 18:54Profile





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