| Re: False Gospel is ............|
Natan, how did the Apostles in the early Church respond to false Gospel being preached?
There is another gospel... another Christ.... another spirit. In the future we see that the one called Antichrist will wield power so convincing the Saints might fall for it. And we know from 1 John 4:3 that the spirit of the Antichrist is already at work.
So what should we ministers of the Lord's work do about it? What are we the 'body of Christ' supposed to do in the wake of this promised apostasy?[b] Are we supposed to ignore it, and preach truth along side of error and hope our voice is LOUDER than the voice of the adversary?
Contrary to what many modern Christians believe the answer to this question is a definite NO![/b]
[b]This Post Modern era that we live in would have us believe that truth is only but a social convention. That the truth of is merely what we ourselves, or a group of us believe to be true. We live in a time of conformity. We believe that extremism of any form is an absolute sin to society, even if it an extreme belief in things that are actually true. As truth is defined as whatever our social constructs deem it to be at the time, we are left in a soup of muddied waters with no hope of clarity. We believe in live and let live, and that in merely suggest our beliefs to another we have violated that person's right to their own version of truth. There are no absolutes. Truth, I mean good, honest and God Given absolute truth is dead in the minds of the philosophers. This same mindset is just as prevalent in the churches today as it is in the rest of society.
There are many individuals and Ministries out there that believe that we are not to address what we feel to be false doctrine and unsound biblical teachings. They cry out that we are not judge others - That we are not to name names - That we are to simply pray for them and leave them be. They claim that if we do speak out we are tearing down the body of Christ. They vehemently are against those that would expose false doctrine. In a "why can't we all get along?" mentality they forsake the safeguarding of the truth.[/b]
[b][color=990000]Why should 'God Fearing' Christians NAME NAMES WHEN DEALING WITH THOSE IN PUBLIC MINISTRY?
BECAUSE OF PRECEDENCE. [/color][/b]
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
[b]1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. [/b]
[B][COLOR=990000]So what about Matthew 7:1?
Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."
I believe we have been misled into a wrong understanding of this verse and therefore failing to do our duty for the body of Christ.
Read in context we can see that Matt 7:2-5 clarifies that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The passage is reading, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin. And that we shouldn't judge others unless we are prepared to be held to the same set of standards.
Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged" to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing... " (v. 15).
How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by what is written in the Word of God? If we know of false teachings, and those who teach them, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" The Bible contains many passages that give us proof that these false prophets should be identified and exposed.
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Righteous judgment is based upon the solid word of God for our foundation. We can judge others based upon the Word of God. Using the Word as our guide, we judge others.
LOOK HOW PAUL JUDGED IN 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-13
1Co 5:1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-something that even pagans don't do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.
1Co 5:2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
1Co 5:3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man
1Co 5:4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns. 1Co 5:6 Your boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough?1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.
1Co 5:8 So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.1Co 5:10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 1Co 5:11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such eople.1Co 5:12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.1Co 5:13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."
A PERSON WHO IS ABLE TO DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE MAJOR MARKS OF SPIRITUAL MATURITY. LOOK AT HEBREWS 5:14
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
THE VERY WORD "DISCERN" MEANS TO JUDGE.
judicial estimation: - discern (-ing), disputation
If we are to be fully equipped with discernment as this passage says, should we not then point out issues contrary to what scriptures teach?
The answer is an invariable YES.
SO, IS IT RIGHT FOR US TO EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS?
If we sit idly by we are in essence encouraging false doctrine to be spread. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.
Remember John the Baptist? He called the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of Vipers". Today would we dare tell him to "your too harsh, be kind to our brethren and don't judge"??
We must always remember that the scripture admonishes us if we do not expose error in the flock. What are we to do when we know of 'false' teachers?
WE ARE TO TRY THEM.
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" - I John 4: 1
ALL DOCTRINE AND TEACHERS ARE TO BE TRIED ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Every sermon, every message, pastor, preacher, so called prophet or any methodology it to be judged through the looking glass of God's Word. On that note, I hope that right now your bibles are open, and you're verifying this talk with scripture.
Have a look at what Christ says to the Church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:2. Christ commends them on what?
"I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
WE ARE TO THEREFORE DO THE SAME.
Never is it to be acceptable to us to 'tolerate' false teachers within our midst.
WE ARE TO MARK THEM AND AVOID THEM.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. How can we mark them? We need a standard in which to compare them to. In other words we require discernment and judgment in light of God's Word. These are not my words. I am merely quoting scripture. We cannot mark and avoid, unless their words and deeds are judged according to the Word of God.
WE ARE TO REBUKE THEM!
Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Look at the surrounding passages of Titus 1:10-16. To whom was Paul referring when he wrote this to Titus?
Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision:Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.Tit 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
For money's sake - unruly, vain talkers and deceivers were fooling whole houses, and leading them astray. Teaching them things that they should not teach. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Just watch a couple of hours of the so-called Christian broadcasting and you'll bear witness to on the television stations today.
Many high profile preachers and evangelists are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? I say NOT! Sound doctrine is supposed to be too precious to us.
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
WE ARE TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
This one is very important and one of the most often overlooked commands on this subject.
Reprove means to show disapproval, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey Ephesians 5:11 unless we try them by the Word of God?
You may be wondering, "Well that verse says 'works of darkness'; certainly a fellow Christian who is only slightly off doctrine is not involved in works of darkness?"
John said this:
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...
1Jn 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
False religion and false doctrines are brambles that grow across the path of truth. They are designed to ensnare and bind people to the author of this confusion - the prince of darkness. If Satan can twist the true gospel to something of his own making, then he has pulled the spirital wool over the eyes of those who follow. He then in-turn renders that person inadequate for duty as a disciple of Jesus Christ. I think we can all agree that the source of all false doctrine is the prince of darkness.
WE ARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THEM.
If we have rebuked them. If we have shown them the error of their ways through scripture, and they still refuse to turn away from their sinful practice, we are to withdraw from them.
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
WE ARE TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Concerning the last days, Paul says that some will have "a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. from such turn away." How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them?
WE ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THEM INTO OUR HOUSE.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.
This should be an easy one right? But what about Radio, TV, music, etc? Once we have marked someone as a false teacher we are to NOT receive them into our house.
WE ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL.
In the beginning I mentioned that Paul warned about those who preached "another Jesus ... another spirit ... or another gospel" - 2 Cor. 11:4. How can we identify them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul goes on to call such preachers, false apostles who transform themselves into apostles of Christ. He also hints at who their master is and refers to Satan himself as an 'Angel of Light'.
PAUL REITERATES SOME OF THIS IN GALATIANS:
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
'Let him be accursed'. Let those words echo in your head for a minute or two. Now think of how many 'perversions' of the gospel there are today.
Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. The hyper charismatic, the Roman Catholic Church, many once evangelical and Christian fundamentalists are preaching a perverted gospel. Albeit, perhaps unknowingly, but they are doing it just the same.
Yet according to many in the church today, we are supposed to cooperate with them in evangelism and Christian work and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel. Yet I must ask you that if we fail to expose these falsities and errors, have we not betrayed the very Gospel we believe we're furthering?
IS IT RIGHT TO NAME NAMES?
Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to name the teachers who proclaim false teachings. Again I believe that scripture tells us that they are wrong. Mark these passages in your own bibles and see.
Paul named and rebuked Peter publicly. - See Galatians 2:11-14
Paul named Demas for loving the world. - See 2 Timothy 4:10
Paul named Hymenaeus and Alexander. - See 1 Timothy 1:18-20
Paul named Hymenaeus and Philetus. - See 2 Timothy 2:15-18
Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. - See 2 Timothy 4:14-15
John named Diotrephes. - See 3 john 9-10
Moses called the name of Balaam. - See Num. 22-25 (Peter also exposed "the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness " in 2 Peter 2:15)
There are more examples, but this last one is of particular interest. You see Balaam was a prophet that was in the business of the Lord's work for money. Now think of some of the Televangelists today; they beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them their hard earned money. Kenneth Copeland for instance bought a $20 million personal jet so he could spread the gospel and do the work of the Lord more effectively. In 1997, Benny Hinn told CNN that he earns between $500,000 and $1 million a year. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV network satellites, and amusement parks all in the name of Christ. The early church was something that looked much different however.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Now doesn't that stand in stark contrast to how the popular ministries and churches are run today?
My friends. It is certainly proper and our duty to expose error and to name those who are in error. It is right and our duty to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" as commanded of us in Jude 3. Faithful messengers will indeed warn the sheep of these heretics, and identify them by name. It is not enough to broadly hint of their identity, for the young lambs will not understand and will be destroyed by the wolves.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
In this time of End Times apostasy, now more than ever before it's time to expose, warn, and prepare the flock for the onslaught of false teachers, the spirit of the antichrist that's already in the world. You will note that this very thing is in our ministries mission statement, and always has been. "
to equip and strengthen believers with sound apologetics and warnings against the false teachings in the world..." Our very motto is 'Safeguarding the Truth' as we pledge to do all we can to that effect.[/color][/b]
The above information was found at Exposing False Gospel at:
[url=This information was found at Bereanwatchman.com and represents my views]http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/exposing-false-doctrine.html[/url]
lovingly, meekly, I say, too much blood has been shed in the past by Christians:
in His love, neil
| 2009/1/21 18:02|
Logan City, Queensland, Australia
| Re: |
How does Osteen's teaching differ from what [url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ca4cd7b4ea73c84e6184]Robert Schuller has been teaching?[/url] :-(
| 2009/1/21 18:18||Profile|
| Re: |
The problem is when truth gets mixed with error. No one in their right mind would drink poison. But if someone mixed poison into Kool-Aid and served it to you without warning you... you would drink of it, and be poisoned.
Thats the trouble with people like Osteen.
I read your reply this morning and have thought about it off and on today. I am aware of the aspect of 'a little leaven' and your point of poison in the Kool-Aid. I do feel that way about some teachings.
When Jesus used the term, He was referring to the Pharisees who denied that He was from God. So, no matter what they taught, they had the main point wrong. I see that as poison in the Kool-Aid. The two cannot be separated.
But I see Osteen differently. He may have a few points wrong, according to some, but I believe he has the main point right. With him, and with most of us, it is more like a bag of apples that contain a couple of bad ones.
Where you can't remove poison from the Kool-Aid, you can take the bad apples out from the good ones.
| 2009/1/21 18:34||Profile|
| Re: Mike Jones|
here's what Peter Celcicky, a prime vessel of Christ wrote in c.1440
Our faith obliges us to bind wounds, not to make blood run
I appreciate your comments and this quote. I will look at the referenced site later.
| 2009/1/21 18:56||Profile|
| Re: |
Personally I like Pastor Joel, his inspirational messages do help me, obviously there are no perfect Pastor's as there are no perfect Church members. Yes were more is given more is required, but the required is in the ears of the beholders, he "can" personally minister to me. I will not name names, I just don't go there anymore, but there are some very prominent Pastors out yonder that can't personally minister to me, so I guess it all comes down to who can minister to us, I don't know I guess I am just tired of kicking the dead horse.
| 2009/1/21 19:40||Profile|
you closed off your post with
I'm sure you're "sincere", but do you sincerely love me?
in the mean time, allow me the time to give your long post the read, and deliberation it deserves, but hear me clearly, I aint going to be getting into any dust-up, or contentious argument with anybody, over this issue. Just so you know.
In Jesus' love, neil
| 2009/1/21 20:45|
| Reply to Walter |
let me ask you ask you a question, and please don't take the question wrong, I dont mean offense? You wrote the whole thing?, (excepting of course, the portions of Scripture)
Quote: in regards to the spirit of anti-christ afoot in the world?
So what should we ministers of the Lord's work do about it?
Walter, I'm not a "minister", not a pastor, just a saved sinner following Jesus, lowest of the low, scum of the earth. I love to encourage others, in the mold of Barnabas, but the way I read it, its the LORD'S WORK, meaning HE does it, not me. Have mercy, I get my hands on it, and I'll make a mess of it, its kind of what Pastor Reidhead said in his famous sermon, and I paraphrase, I'll hand Jesus the car keys, climb into the trunk, He'll close the trunk, and Jesus will do the driving.
That was in response to the carsticker that say "Jesus is my co-pilot" (you're sposed to laugh now, but you're probably not)
Zinzendorff came up with something that I kind of like: "In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty, and above all, love". Its not Scripture, but I think its a good roadmap in dealing with the other inmates trapped here on Earth.
you also asked me:
What are we the 'body of Christ' supposed to do in the wake of this promised apostasy?
Die. Die to the world, die to self, die to the flesh, die.
you also asked:
Are we supposed to ignore it
yep. the Two Royal Commandments Jesus gave us were, the Schma, which is to love God, with all your heart mind body soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
then you asked:
and preach truth along side of error and hope our voice is LOUDER than the voice of the adversary?
Brother, I WILL preach the Gospel and IF neccesary, I MIGHT use words. I'll let others do the shouting and hollering. I know that might not be what a Berean watchman wants to hear, but there it is.
We live in a time of conformity. We believe that extremism of any form is an absolute sin to society, even if it an extreme belief in things that are actually true.
sure enough, and I realize you dont KNOW me, but if you did, you'd sure know that the last thing I am is a "conformist", the things of this world matter very very little to me, and that I believe "extremism" can cut both ways, it can walk itself out in a man strapping 70 pounds of c-4 to his waist, and blowing himself up in a market square crowded with women and children, done in the "name of god", or it can be extreme love walked out in the face of absolute scorn and hatred arrayed against it. I like the latter..
Oh Walter!!...I went to the link, which doesnt work, so I went to berean watch men, went to the JR Hall article and you pasted the whole thing, and here I sit, stupidly answering your post, typing, pouring my heart into it, and it was just a paste job. If I want to talk to JR Hall, why dont I write him an email?
I was just trying to reach out and give you the respect and love by answering what you unspooled to me....but it wasnt you that wrote it.
let me wind this up, by just saying, If you and Steve, and any others want to take Joel Osteen to the Holy Ghost woodshed, please do so, do as the Lord leads.
In Jesus' love, neil
oh, by the way, here's the link to the article you pasted:
[url=http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/exposing-false-doctrine.html]"Exposing False Doctrine" [/url]
| 2009/1/21 22:07|
| Re: Walter|
You know it simply boils down to this, the Bible says in Galatians 6:7 "you will reap what you sow" I have never personally read any clauses or exceptions either before or after this scripture, that says if we expose anyone including Pastors that we will not reap the same exposure one day.
Look we have only two choices here expose or Pray, if you feel that God has placed the responsibility on you to expose Pastors by all means go for it, but unless the word of God lies you will also reap the same some day, exposed for some of your flaws.
I think Praying and exposing would be an oxymoron in my opinion, I don't think in good faith we can honestly and sincerely do both with a pure heart, I think some of our reasons come from our flesh, I personally choose to Pray for them so I will reap the same "Prayer" "unless" again the word lies, so folks what is more powerful, exposing the Pastors or praying for them? it's pretty simple, this is really cut and dry it's our choice.
Yes, I know I will have folks say well Mr. Bill, the word says it is our responsibility to expose, is it? it may be, but you better make real sure, before you do, you have made that choice through your spirit and Prayed and Prayed over and over again and your decision has not come from your flesh, because the fallout you reap may not be very desirable.
You know I think God has a clue on who are the flawed Pastors, and I am sure if he were here posting on SI he would say "all of them are flawed" and I am also pretty sure, if some took the time to expose all of them here on SI, they might need to purchase more server space, just some of my personal thoughts.
May God Bless All Of Our Pastors.
| 2009/1/21 22:09||Profile|
The prayer meeting has always been my favorite meeting of the Church....a prayer meeting where the start time is posted, but the ending time is left blank, coz the Holy Spirit knows when the meeting ends, and we all ask Jesus to pastor the meeting.
So I agree with you....prayer is the better path, and when account is taken of me, God will see the seed I've sown and by His Grace, and His Indwelling Spirit IN me, it will be love mercy charity hope and Faith.
the other stuff I've sown? You make amends on that, and put it under the Blood of Christ.
thats my dime.
| 2009/1/21 22:17|
| Re: Walter|
In Jesus' love, neil
Neil??? Is that you, bro??
| 2009/1/22 8:10|