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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : did Jesus really die spiritually

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BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

clintstone wrote:
again, you will not find any place in scripture that says Jesus was in hell 3 days and nights



So how long was he in Hell Clintstone-or will you deny what scripture says, by saying he never went to hell, as you have already said-and have been proven wrong?

How long was Jesus in Hell?

 2008/9/3 23:26Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

It does not appear to be scriptural that Jesus' or Adam's spirit died. And yes man is three parts spirit soul and body.

I may be wrong but I dont know where kenneth hagin ever said Jesus' spirit died.

How do you kill a spirit. It is eternal


David

 2008/9/4 10:22Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

1 John 3;8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

What are the works of the devil?

If one negates Jesus' decent to hell,I wonder what impact that has on one's doctrine?

Jesus told the thief on the cross "today you shall be with me in paradise"

Jesus hadnt been to heaven untill after he had risen.


David

 2008/9/4 10:39Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
It does not appear to be scriptural that Jesus' or Adam's spirit died.

Spirits don't die at all as in the same way bodies of flesh die.
To die spiritualy is having the relationship[ between you & God severed.

Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things.
Physical death - spirit from body(Eccl 12:7, James 2:26)
Spiritual death - spirit from God(Isa 59:2)

Even the death of a marriage is the eperation of man & wife.
Many times God hides His face when sin is
[b]Mic 3:4[/b] [color=990000]Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.[/color]
Isa 57:17; [b]Deu 31:16[/b] [color=990000]And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, you shall sleep with your fathers; and this people will rise up, and go play the harlot after the gods of the strangers of the land, where they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
[b]:17[/b] Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and [b]I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them,[/b] and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because [/b]our God is not among us=/b]?[/color]
Deu 31:17-18[color=990000]Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?[/color], Deu 32:20; Eze 39:23-24, Eze 39:29; Mic 3:4.

What happend when Jesus cry out with a loud voice, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"
Is that not His Father hiding His face?
Is that not His Father forsaking Him?
What is spiritual death, if not this?

 2008/9/4 11:36Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I thought spiritual death was being referred to literally.

I guess it is a cliche

David

 2008/9/4 11:45Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
I thought spiritual death was being referred to literally.

I guess it is a cliche

David



We aren't talking about Adam's or Christ spirit dying (at least that is not what I am saying), I am saying that Adam died spiritually (not that his spirit died literally) as in his relationship to God that he had with God prior to the fall-and the same for Christ when he became sin for us baring our sins IN his body on the cross.

If God hides his face from you as Logic said, then God turns his face from you-as a whole body, soul, and spirit-

Jesus said that which is born of the flesh IS FLESH, and that which is born of the Spirit(Holy Spirit) is spirit.

Philip (Christinyou) came and said that Jesus had no " my spirit"-however, scripture is clear that he did.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,[color=FF0000]Father, into thy hands I commend [b]my spirit[/b]: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost[/color] .

And we know that right after Jesus said this, he descended to the lower regions of the earth paradise/hell. As Paul said, he that ascedened FIRST descended.

Whenever the scripture speak of a spirit other than the Holy Spirit, it makes the "s" lower case, but when it speaks of the Holy Spirit the "S" is always capitalized in the New Testament, and in the above scripture Luke 23:46 the "s" is lower case just like:

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, [b]receive my spirit[/b].

What "spirit" is this that Stephen is talking about? This is NOT the Holy Spirit, however, to some degree that is what Phillip was trying to tell or say to me.



 2008/9/4 12:37Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Deeper than I thought.......My bad.

I see now what you are saying.

..........Interesting

Will ponder it............



David

 2008/9/4 13:12Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
BlazedbyGod wrote:

And we know that right after Jesus said this, he descended to the lower regions of the earth paradise/hell. As Paul said, he that ascedened FIRST descended.

Or, just into a grave ot tomb.
That would also be a "lower region of the Earth.

Quote:
And we know that right after Jesus said this, he descended to the lower regions of the earth paradise/hell. As Paul said, he that ascedened FIRST descended.

he that ascedened FIRST descended [b]to Earth[/b].

Quote:
Whenever the scripture speak of a spirit other than the Holy Spirit, it makes the "s" lower case, but when it speaks of the Holy Spirit the "S" is always capitalized in the New Testament, and in the above scripture Luke 23:46 the "s" is lower case just like:

Capital letters and puncyuation are not inpired.

The original Greek was all capital with no punctuation.

Quote:
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Just so we don't get confused, Jesus didn't just have a spirit, He had THEE Holy Spirit.
If not, there would have been two(2) Holy Spirits.
The One spirit Jesus had AND the "Original".
This is why (I think) The Holy Spirit couldn't come untill He had risen.
This is also why The Father is not [b]A[/b] spirit, but is spirit with out the "artical"

However, you are correct in that we all have a spirit and not the Spirit.

 2008/9/4 13:30Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:
BlazedbyGod wrote:

And we know that right after Jesus said this, he descended to the lower regions of the earth paradise/hell. As Paul said, he that ascedened FIRST descended.

Or, just into a grave ot tomb.
That would also be a "lower region of the Earth.

Quote:
And we know that right after Jesus said this, he descended to the lower regions of the earth paradise/hell. As Paul said, he that ascedened FIRST descended.

he that ascedened FIRST descended [b]to Earth[/b].

Quote:
Whenever the scripture speak of a spirit other than the Holy Spirit, it makes the "s" lower case, but when it speaks of the Holy Spirit the "S" is always capitalized in the New Testament, and in the above scripture Luke 23:46 the "s" is lower case just like:

Capital letters and puncyuation are not inpired.

The original Greek was all capital with no punctuation.

Quote:
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Just so we don't get confused, Jesus didn't just have a spirit, He had THEE Holy Spirit.
If not, there would have been two(2) Holy Spirits.
The One spirit Jesus had AND the "Original".
This is why (I think) The Holy Spirit couldn't come untill He had risen.
This is also why The Father is not [b]A[/b] spirit, but is spirit with out the "artical"

However, you are correct in that we all have a spirit and not the Spirit.



Jesus ascended into (and far above) the Heavens, he descended first, yes, into earth, no, just merely "into the heart"- into the HEART OF THE EARTH.

A grave would be " in the earth"-a grave is not " in the heart of the earth"

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man [b]also died, and was buried[/b]; 23 [b]And in hell[/b] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom


We see the rich man was buried in the earth, but then we see him lifting up his eyes in hell. His body was buried in the grave, but his spirit/soul was in hell. Jesus did say he would be in the earth, but he said he would be in the inner most part of the earth-and that is not 6feet under ground. The grave for the rich man was being buried. The physical grave is the place of the dead bodies, hell is the grave of the spirit part of man that is damned because of sin.

Thus; what David prophecied is true:

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: 26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before [b]spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left IN HELL[/b], neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 [b]This Jesus[/b] hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses

Paul speaking of David, clearly says that Christ's soul was not LEFT IN HELL. Christ body was in the tomb in the grave in the earth, but Christ's soul was in hell/paradise in the heart of the earth.




 2008/9/4 15:50Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""How long was Jesus in Hell?"""


Jesus was in Hades as long as it took Him to speak the Good News of His resurrection and acknowledgement of their place in the Kingdom of God.

The body of Christ did not see corruption. Rigor-Mortis sets in with in 6 hours of death, and since the body of Christ did not see corruption as did Lazarus did, His resurrection must have been within that 6 hours. When Jesus went into Hades, He did not go their to experience Hades, He went their to preach the Good News to those that were waiting for Him.

Jesus went into Hades with all the Glory of God, resurrected, glorified, in person. Just like He appeared in the upper room with the door locked.

Just like He rose into the clouds in His Assention and seated on the Throne with His Father.

Jesus did not have to experience Hell, He is the One that made it and put it into effect.

That doctrine is purely Copeland Theology, with Hagen, Hinn, and all the other name it and claim it preachers.

His manifestation of His resurrection on the third day was to fulfill prophecy. The stone was rolled away and He was not there and had not been there, but preaching to the Saints in Hades in His Glorified and Resurrected body.

God the Father kept the soul of Jesus from being in Hades and Jesus Himself had the power to give His life and take it up again. Why would Jesus need to spend three days and three nights in Hades, save for the preaching of the Good News that He is Come, resurrected into His new body of flesh and Bone with the blood of His Flesh and Blood body shed on the Cross for those He was preaching to.

1 John 4:2-6 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

"Is Come", not has come.

Christ is come in me in my flesh also: which the Holy Spirit has quickened to contain the Son of God. Amen

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/9/4 16:01Profile





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