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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Personal Election (not corporate)

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tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
If nothing of God is arbitrary & without partiality & all things that God does are according to set standards of righousness and pure justice, furthermore, the set standards of righousness and pure justice are evident to all, why can't we know them?



There are many questions we can ask “why” about that are not answered in the Bible. I certainly do not have all the answers. Perhaps we lack the necessary ability, capacity, and power to understanding all the Lord does…and why He does it. His ways are not our ways.

Grace and peace


_________________
TJ

 2008/5/15 19:02Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: Logic wrote:

"What is the standard rule of God's "good pleasure, will, counsel, purpose..."
It is justice and rightousness.
Now, how is justice and rightousness applied to His election"

You are trying to put God in your box on your playing field. 1Cr 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Unless you have the answers to this quarry of yours, quit baiting other with learned debating tactics questions, so you can apply your hook of your superior intelligence. If you have the answers make your point that we may agree or disagree, and let God approve that which is right.

1 Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

This is His Body The Church, Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

We cannot have preeminence over anything that has to do with His Body, His Church. The Father gives those that are His to Him. If Not they are not elect. I think God is quite capable of making any changes to His program to bring those that are His to salvation, even to those that believe on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

This should read, there is no past tense in received: But as many as receive Him to them He gives power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name. If there were past tense in received or gave, then believe should read believed.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This also is present tense and should read: "Which be born,"

Who are we born of? God. Not by foreknowledge but by present, now, Seed of the Father and this pleases Him in His election.



Who's Power?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/15 21:10Profile









 Re: FOREKNOWLEDGE

"Logic" said, "The reason for electing certain men and not others must be based upon the foreknowledge that they will submit to the truth and ask for the mercy that is offered. In other words, God must have known whom he could save."

The above statement has been shown to be biblically inaccurate.

On the same page this quote of yours is found in your reply to another poster there is a post Re: 1 Peter 1:2 which you must refute in an apologetic manner if you insist on continuing to question any brethren regarding the subject of this thread.

If you are wrong you must discontinue this for now and find God the Father,Son and Holy Spirit's answer as such is of interest to our Tri-Une God. God has seen fit to exercise the fulness of the Godhead in electing.

Therefore it is with Him alone we have to do.

Do business with God on your knees, and I'll do the same.





 2008/5/16 0:01
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

i found this on sermon index:


"Many nowadays who cannot quite get away from religious thought, are able to stave off the inconvenient pressure of conscience by quibbling over the great truths of revelation. Great mysteries are in the Book of God of necessity; for how can the infinite God so speak that all his thoughts can be grasped by finite man? But it is the height of folly to get discussing these deep things, and to leave plain, soul-saving truths in abeyance. It reminds one of the two philosophers who debated about food, and went away empty from the table, while the common countryman in the corner asked no question, but used his knife and fork with great diligence, and went on his way rejoicing. Thousands are now happy in the Lord through receiving the gospel like little children; while others, who can always see difficulties, or invent them, are as far off as ever from any comfortable hope of salvation. I know many very decent people who seem to have resolved never to come to Christ till they can understand how the doctrine of election is consistent with the free invitations of the gospel. I might just as well determine never to eat a morsel of bread till it has been explained to me how it is that God keeps me alive, and yet I must eat to live. The fact is, that we most of us know quite enough already, and the real want with us is not light in the head, but truth in the heart; not help over difficulties, but grace to make us hate sin and seek reconcilation." C.H Spurgeon

love andy


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andy

 2008/5/16 13:05Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
wisevirgin wrote:
Quote:
"Logic" said, "The reason for electing certain men and not others must be based upon the foreknowledge that they will submit to the truth and ask for the mercy that is offered. In other words, God must have known whom he could save."

The above statement has been shown to be biblically inaccurate.

What is the reason for damnation?
Is it because some one is not elect?
No, it is because of willfull, intentional rebelion/disobediance(sin)?

What is the reason for salvation?
It must be the antithesis of the reason for damnation
It is because of willfull, intentional repentance to the command(Act 17:30) and faith in Christ(Gal 3:26)?

How is it that election is any diferent?

This is for anybody.

 2008/5/16 14:13Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote,

"What is the reason for damnation?
Is it because some one is not elect?
No, it is because of willfull, intentional rebelion/disobediance(sin)?"

Adam's sin. All in Adam die.

No.

Sin nature before election, the Nature of our previous father the devil.

That is all who are born from above do not sin. Satan Nature out, Son Nature in.

1 John 1:5-7 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

These are born from above and His Seed remains in us, and He cannot sin.

These are the personal sins of a man. Not the Sin of the world that plunged all mankind into the realm and nature of Satan.

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

That is why confession is needed and forgiveness is sure and faithful and just by God the Father because of The Cross of Christ and He that is in us. So we cannot sin the sin of Adam because this is the Sin that Christ took away and defeated Satan at the Cross, ENMITY, and now the same thing that put the whole of mankind in sin is what will set those that believe free. Those that believe are only able to believe because these are those the Father has given the Son, and none will be lost. Adam believed Satan and Satan then became the father of all mankind. Except those the Father has set aside for His own pleasure. Christ defeated Satan at the Cross and provided the only way to the Father.
Again if you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God you will be saved. How do we believe when we don't have the capacity to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. To the Jew a stumbling block, to the Greek foolishness. We believe because we have heard Him from the Father through the Holy Spirit. Jhn 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard [him] ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. Have you heard Him?

Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Jesus knows those that are His and those that are not, His sheep hears His voice.

Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Is this not foreknowledge and election?

The blind man and those that believe not:

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

Jhn 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.

Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Who reveals Christ to us? God the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Was Peter elected to this revelation? Jesus said He chose Peter.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

No man can come to the Father but by Christ Jesus.

No man can, it be revealed to unless it is revealed by the Father in Heaven.

Is this not God's choice and election in the revelation that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

Flesh and blood cannot reveal it, and the includes myself, I cannot reveal it to myself.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Israel has not received this election of Grace yet.

Romans 11:3-11 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Do you believe that you are the elect of God, by His Grace and the Life of the Lord Jesus Christ in me and having this witness in myself by the Holy Spirit, I do.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

John, Peter and Paul agree on election.

1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:18-21 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip







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Phillip

 2008/5/17 0:37Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b]Criteria[/b] = a standard of judgment or criticism; a rule or principle for evaluating or testing something.
any established law, rule, principle or fact, by which facts, propositions and opinions are compared, in order to discover their truth or falsehood, or by which a correct judgment may be formed.

God's own will
or
For His good plesure
or
according to His own purpose and grace
or
that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain

These are not standards of judgment.

These tells us nothing why HE does not elect eather.

If they are, would anyone tell me how those Scriptures that are preseanted are standards of judgment or criticism which God uses to elect or not to elect?

How are they rules or principles for evaluating or testing something those which HE elect or does not elect?

How are those Scriptures establishe law, rule, principles or facts that God uses to choose which He wil save or condemn?

 2008/5/18 22:00Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

There is no rule for election, for all are lost and condemned to hell.

These principles are in God Himself and by every one that you have mentioned, Gods rule of election is in Himself and His Son Jesus Christ, not in the goodness or foreknowledge that any man would choose to submit, for none would.

You have been given all that is necessary to come to the knowledge that You are saved by Grace through the Faith of the Son of God, given you by the Holy Spirit of God and by the life of Jesus Christ given you on the Cross. And you still believe it is in you doing that you are saved. Something is amiss and needs to be reconciled to God and His Son For His work that He has done in you, and that not of yourself.

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This foreknowledge is not that we are good enough to receive Jesus Christ because we believe, but the Father has sanctified your believing through the Holy Spirit and obedience that you would believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and shed His blood for you, and given you Grace and peace multiplied that you would believe, not by your grace or faith but by His Grace through His Faith are you saved.

Sanctified: put to use for what God intended it before the foundation of the world, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

On top of this God has made Christ in us the wisdom of God, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit of Christ that is in you, and the whole of all that are redeemed in Christ. This God has done by His election and by His foreknowledge of the total depravity of man and the need for the ENMITY, and cleansing Blood of the Lamb of God at the Cross, The whole nature of God Himself in Christ Jesus our Lord, Whom He has birthed in the elect sons of disobedience unto the elect son of God.

Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

"YOU ARE DEAD", Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 3:8-17 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/19 15:47Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

So, all you are saying is that God elects some with out basis of judgment, as electing some and not others, merely because he could or would. In other words, to exhibit his own sovereignty without any other reason than "just because HE wants to and that HE can".

God does all things according to set standards, rules on which HE makes a judgment or a decision.
God always moves according to rules or principles for evaluating every thing HE does.

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
There is no rule for election, for all are lost and condemned to hell.

Since all are lost, there must be a deciding factor which GOD uses for electing and not electing.
If not, God would be arbitrarily electing. That would be outside of Justice.
You are denying that facts of reality.

Quote:
These principles are in God Himself and by every one that you have mentioned, Gods rule of election is in Himself and His Son Jesus Christ, not in the goodness or foreknowledge that any man would choose to submit, for none would.

I agree that they are in Himself, but the principles are righteousness, justice, and principle(specific basis of conduct or management).

All I am preasenting is what these are.

One can not just say God does it because, which you all are basicaly saying.

I am preseanting the specific basis of conduct or management that God uses for eletion.

What is "in Him and His Son Jesus Christ" which He is using for the election choices.

Quote:
And you still believe it is in your doing that you are saved.

It is called obediance to the requiremnets for salvation.
[b]Luk 17:10[/b] [color=990000]So likewise you, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.[/color]

What things are commanded us, that we would say, "We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do"

God commands Faith, Repntence,Obediance, & Humility.
This is the criteria that God uses to elect.

The Criteria"
Faith:
Acts 20:21 [color=990000]Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.[/color]

Romans 1:5 [color=990000]By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:[/color]

Romans 9:31-32 [color=990000]But Israel, who followed after the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
:32 Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone;[/color]
Hebrews 4:2 [color=990000]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[/color]
Hebrews 11:6a [color=990000]But without faith it is impossible to please him...[/color]
There is many other Scriptures that tell us we nee to have faith as a criteria that God requires to save us.
However, those of you who insist that faith is a gift, you must explain why God would be angry(Hebrews 4:3) at those who do not have faith if all he needs to do is give it to them.

Furthermore, if faith was a gift, this would be the equivalent to that:
"I command that you have faith, however, I will not give it to you.
Just because I will not give faith to you, I will condemn you for not having it."
This is pure injustice, not to mention, rediculous.

(Rom. 3:25; Eph 2:8) which is the heart’s embrace and obedience to revealed truth (Lk. 24:25; Acts 8:37; 15:9; 26:18; Rom. 6:17; 10:10; 1 Pet. 1:22), choosing to live according to intelligence, conscience, or reality. Unbelief is the hearts rejection of light (Jn. 3:19; Rom 1:18). Without the truth it is impossible to be saved or set free (Jn. 8:32; Rom. 6:17; 10:13-14; 2 Thes. 2:10; 1 Pet. 1:22). Faith is from the heart (Lk. 24:25; Acts. 8:37; 15:9) and it purifies the heart (Acts 26:18; Rom. 6:17; 10:10; 1 Pet. 1:22). Faith and faithfulness cannot be separated (Jas. 2:18, 2:20, 2:26). Faith is the seed of obedience (Heb. 11:7, 8, 17, 24-27; 1 Jn. 5:4).

Repntence:
Acts 17:30 [color=990000]And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:[/color]

Acts 20:21 [color=990000]Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ[/color]
Now, if repentence is also a gift, it would not be a command.
It would be rediculous to command that which is needed for you to give.
Furthermore, to command and not give that which is commanded is despicable.
It would be the equivalent to this:
"I command that you repent, however, I will not let you.
Just because I will not give you repentence, I will condemn you for not having doing it."
This is pure injustice!

(Isa. 55:7; Jer. 36:3; Lam. 3:40; Hos. 14:1-2; Joel 2:12-13; Mk. 1:4; Lk. 13:3; 5:32; 13:5; 2 Cor. 7:10) to secure a return to lawful conduct, lest sinners are granted impunity or immunity (a license to sin) and the well-being of all is once again endangered instead of protected. An unrepentant criminal cannot be pardoned of his crimes and released from his sentence by a benevolent ruler who cares about the well-being of all. There is no forgiveness of sin without forsaking sin. Repentance is when a person forsakes their selfish way of life (2 Kin. 17:13; Isa. 55:7; Jer. 25:5; 26:3; Eze. 3:19, 33:9, 33:11; Jonah 3:8), departs from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), forsakes their sin (Prov. 28:13; Isa. 55:7), or when a person changes their mind about sinning and makes up their mind to sin no more, when they purpose in their heart to stop sinning (Ps. 17:3; Isa. 1:16, 55:7; Job 34:31-32; Jn. 5:14, 8:11; 1 Cor. 15:34; Eph. 4:22-28). This must be a condition since minding the flesh, or being “carnally mind” (fleshly purposed) is enmity with God (Rom. 8:5-6). Men are transformed by the renewal of their minds (Rom. 12:2). Repentance is not a work but is an internal attitude of submission to God and His law; it is a change of purpose, a change of mind, a change of heart. Instead of being carnally minded, men must make up their mind to sin no more. Instead of being carnally purposed, they choose to be heavenly minded. God is utterly against those who sin every day (Isa. 52:5; Hos 13:2; 2 Pet. 2:14). His wrath is against anyone who is in willful sin or known disobedience (Jn. 3:19; Rom. 1:18; 2:6-11; Heb. 10:26-31; 1 Jn. 3:8; 3:15; 3:20; 2 Jn. 1:9). God punishes those who do not repent of their selfish way (Jer.15:7; Lk. 13:3, 5), but God rejoices when one repents of their sins and returns to obedience (Lk. 15:7, 10). Our God of love cannot abrogate His law of love, so a return to obedience is absolutely necessary for God to safely, wisely, and lovingly grant pardon to sinners. Repentance must come before salvation (Acts 3:19; 2 Cor. 7:10), conversion comes before forgiveness (Mk. 4:12), repentance comes before the remission of sins (Mk. 1:4; Lk. 3:3; 24:47; Acts 2:38). God calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31) and God rightly blames them if they do not repent (Matt. 11:20; 23:37; Mk. 6:6; Lk. 7:30; 13:34; 14:17-18; 19:14; 19:27; Jn. 5:40; Rev. 2:21).

When the Holy Spirit brings us to the place (Jn. 6:44-45; 16:8) where we repent of our sins and believe the Gospel (Mk. 1:15; Acts 20:21; Heb. 6:1), this is called conversion (Matt. 13:5; 18:3; Mk. 4:12; Lk. 22:32; Jn. 12:40; Acts 3:19; 15:3; 28:27; Jas. 5:19), regeneration (Tit. 3:5), or the new birth (Jn. 3:3-8; 1 Pet. 1:23), so that a person is an entirely new creature (2 Cor. 5:17). And without being born again by the Spirit of God a person cannot see the Kingdom of God (Jn. 3:3, 5), one absolutely must obey the Holy Spirit, or obey the Gospel (Rom. 6:17; 10:16; 2 Thes. 1:8; 1 Pet. 4:17) by turning from sin and trusting in Christ, by leaving all and following Jesus (Lk. 14:27, 33).

Obediance:
Romans 1:5 [color=990000]By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:[/color]
The apostleship is in order to produce, or promote obedience to the faith; in other words, to induce them to render that obedience to God.
Therefore, if it wasn't a criteria, it woldn't be needed.

Romans 6:16 [color=990000]Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?[/color]
This is telling us that all mankind is able to choose whom they are slaves or a servant to.

Romans 15:18 [color=990000]For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not worked by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,[/color]
This obedience implies salvation.

Romans 16:26 [color=990000]But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience to the faith: [/color]

2 Corinthians 10:5-6 [color=990000]Casting down arguments, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [/color]
There is many other Scriptures that tell us we need to obey as one of the criteria that God requires to save us.
There are some that would caim, obedience is a work which is against salvation that would be meritable as works of the law is, if so, then obedience would not be an obligation or preached about.

James 2:21-22 [color=990000]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
:22 See how faith worked with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?[/color]

Humility:

Luke 11:14 [color=990000]For whosoever exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.[/color]

Luke 18:14 [color=990000]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.[/color]
The Tax collecter was still not saved since he was asking for mercy, but he was still able to humble himself.

James 4:6,10 [color=990000]But he gives more grace. Therefore he says, God resists the proud, but gives grace unto the humble.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.[/color]

1Peter 5:6 [color=990000]Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:[/color]

 2008/5/19 17:12Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Who gives repentance unto salvation? 2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

God gives repentance "Peradventure"?
Peradventure:

mhpote mepote may'-pot-eh or me pote may pot'-eh
from 3361 and 4218; not ever; also if (or lest) ever (or perhaps):--if peradventure, lest (at any time, haply), or not at all, whether or not.

Repentance has nothing to do with man in its giving, only works of that repentance.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

We have been given repentance, by God to whom He has elected to this repentance. Then we do do the works of the Christ that is in us.

Repentance is not the criteria for salvation for the elect of God, especially since we cannot repent until it is given us. Then it is election.

Romans 1:5 By whom we have ((((received)))) grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:


Obedience is learned by grace and apostleship given for His Name.

Even Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered.

Obedience comes by discipline, who is the One that does the disciplining? It is God the Father or we are bastards.

Hbr 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Who does the chastening? It is the Father or you are no a son.



2Cr 12:21 [And] lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and [that] I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

If we are saved by Grace through Faith and that not of ourselves it follows that the humbleness is given by God also.

It is the Grace of God, the Faith of Christ, the given repentance from God, the obedience learned by God's chastening and Salvation by election of God to be in Christ Jesus, predestinated before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Or none would walk in them.

That we might do works unto repentance is of God.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Who gives repentance?

2Cr 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Who's Faith?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

By the faith, Son of God.

Galatians 5:1-7 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

Humanism and New Age lies.

But God is true and His election is true and will not fail.

Romans 8:1-16 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

If we walk after, follow, after the manor of the Spirit, who is doing the leading?

In Christ: Phillip




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Phillip

 2008/5/20 0:31Profile





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