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RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
If they say they have already took the medicine and you can see it hasn't helped them one bit, what do you do?



I think that some people are looking for a hypocrite to be their 'excuse' for their own personal rebellion. I typically say to people that uses hypocrites as excuses, "I hear what you are saying about the hypocrites. My question is, "Why are [i]you[/i] in disobedience?" "


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/5/8 17:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
If they say they have already took the medicine and you can see it hasn't helped them one bit, what do you do?



I think that some people are looking for a hypocrite to be their 'excuse' for their own personal rebellion. I typically say to people that uses hypocrites as excuses, "I hear what you are saying about the hypocrites. My question is, "Why are [i]you[/i] in disobedience?" "




Robert I'm not so sure what disobedience you are referring to. Jesus didn't spend a whole lot of time with the Pharisees. As a matter of fact he pretty well told them as it was. The difference is Jesus knew peoples hearts before he even talked them and we don't. He pretty well explained who would listen to the gospel in the Bible. That's why evangelism isn't working. Everyone is going to wrong place.

Let me ask you, are you in total obedience with his word 24/7? I'm not, I have to ask forgivenss everyday. I'm talking about those people who support evil and are proud of it.

Remember what Jesus read to the Pharisees and walked out.
Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,[b] because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.[/b]
KJV

If people don't know they are poor, even if they have money, won't admit they are brokenhearted, won't know they are blind, do not know they are captives to the devil, or bruised by the devil, then their heart is not ready for Jesus to heal them and set them free.




 2008/5/8 18:04
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Let me ask you, are you in total obedience with his word 24/7? I'm not, I have to ask forgivenss everyday. I'm talking about those people who support evil and are proud of it.



Certainly we need to walk in the Spirit. This is impossible without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us.

So I think the issue is one of resisting [i]or[/] yielding to the Holy Spirit. Obedience is mandatory. If we sin we have an advocate with the Father, but surely this is not the pattern of our lives. The difference between a sinner and a Saint is that ones life is characterized by obedience to God while the other has the spirit of disobedience
(Eph 2).


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/5/8 18:59Profile









 Re:






Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
Let me ask you, are you in total obedience with his word 24/7? I'm not, I have to ask forgivenss everyday. I'm talking about those people who support evil and are proud of it.



Certainly we need to walk in the Spirit. This is impossible without the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us.

So I think the issue is one of resisting [i]or[/] yielding to the Holy Spirit. Obedience is mandatory. If we sin we have an advocate with the Father, but surely this is not the pattern of our lives. The difference between a sinner and a Saint is that ones life is characterized by obedience to God while the other has the spirit of disobedience
(Eph 2).




I tried to be as honest with you as I could and you side stepped my question. I guess I can assume you are in total obedience 24/7.

 2008/5/8 19:17
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I tried to be as honest with you as I could and you side stepped my question. I guess I can assume you are in total obedience 24/7.



There is no need for you to confess your sin to me and there is no need for me to confess my sin to you. I know I am not perfect. I am fully aware of my weaknesses. Are you trying to pick a fight? You will not have one from me. I'll leave off this discussion if that's the direction things will go. My focus is on the Todd Bentley and the subject of this 'revival'. I am very concerned about it as folk have asked me personally.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/5/8 22:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
I tried to be as honest with you as I could and you side stepped my question. I guess I can assume you are in total obedience 24/7.



There is no need for you to confess your sin to me and there is no need for me to confess my sin to you. I know I am not perfect. I am fully aware of my weaknesses. Are you trying to pick a fight? You will not have one from me. I'll leave off this discussion if that's the direction things will go. My focus is on the Todd Bentley and the subject of this 'revival'. I am very concerned about it as folk have asked me personally.



..............................................
No sir if I was trying to pick a fight I I would have insinuated you were in rebellion against God because hypocrites troubled your spirit.

 2008/5/8 22:46
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Moe mac's: The problem is, most people in America, if not all, have already heard the gospel many times. I think the problem is they have heard the gospel from so many liberals, who say one thing with their lips, and live another. When they see those professed born again Christian's sinful lifestyles and no values and they see no more difference in them than see in the world. When they see them supporting abortion, homosexual marriage, or at least supporting the leaders that support sin, it appears then to the lost, that the gospel is a sham, when they see peoples lifestyles have not improved or changed and they don't match the book and their lips.



My comments on hypocrisy were directed at this point you made. I in no way intended to mean I was 'in total obedience 24/7." The point I'm making is that there are a lot of hypocrites in the world. Many people use 'hypocrites' as an excuse to reject God. I am defining hypocrite as a person that professes Christ and yet lives a life characterized by disobedience.

I hope that helps explain where I was coming from on that. :-)


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/5/8 22:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
No sir if I was trying to pick a fight I I would have insinuated you were in rebellion against God because hypocrites troubled your spirit.



My apology, I guess I am missing the point. We should all be troubled by hypocrisy; but we should also be troubled by hypocrisy being used as an excuse to live a life of sin. We must guard ourselves against hypocrisy also, etc.

The trouble I am having with this whole Todd Bentley thing is how we have come to a place that folk cannot discern. Equally troubling is that there is a whole group of people waiting to add a 'Todd Bentley' to their list of names of people, ministries, and churches that are not doing right and they walk away from God with those as their excuse. We have to emphasize to folk that we will all give an account to God. One man's hypocrisy is not another man's excuse to sin.

This is the catch 22 I am finding among young Christians. You try to warn them about the wolves and they use the wolves as an example of how everyone is a hypocrite, etc. and they backslide.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2008/5/8 22:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
No sir if I was trying to pick a fight I I would have insinuated you were in rebellion against God because hypocrites troubled your spirit.



My apology, I guess I am missing the point. We should all be troubled by hypocrisy; but we should also be troubled by hypocrisy being used as an excuse to live a life of sin. We must guard ourselves against hypocrisy also, etc.

The trouble I am having with this whole Todd Bentley thing is how we have come to a place that folk cannot discern. Equally troubling is that there is a whole group of people waiting to add a 'Todd Bentley' to their list of names of people, ministries, and churches that are not doing right and they walk away from God with those as their excuse. We have to emphasize to folk that we will all give an account to God. One man's hypocrisy is not another man's excuse to sin.

This is the catch 22 I am finding among young Christians. You try to warn them about the wolves and they use the wolves as an example of how everyone is a hypocrite, etc. and they backslide.


................................................
Robert as troubling as Bentley is, in my theological opinion Bentley is not any more troubling than the hypocrites who claim to be salt and light on Sunday in the pews and support evil things like abortion an homosexuality by the leaders they support. To know to do good and do it not, is a sin. There is a silent sin. Homosexuality and abortion is really no worse in God's eyes than what Bentley does or no better either. We hear people say, " the world has gone crazy". Yea it's called sin and it all started when man fell in the garden. There is only one cure and that's Jesus you know that. We are all bent toward some type sin that so easily besets us, and we continually ask for empowerment from the Holy Spirit and strive to flee from that sin, whatever it may be and die daily to the flesh. It may not be homosexuality or abortion that we struggle with, or surely not the move over God pride that Bentley has. We all fail to allow him to accomplish in us as we would like but and we confess it to him when we do. We also are to confess our faults one to another and pray one for another. I guess we all have our passions about what is the most severe sin. My opinions and your passions are most likely different about what is worse in our eyes. It doesn't make me right and you wrong. I'm glad you are open enough to discuss this with me. Yes, we could have discussed it in private Pm's but I believe when we all discuss these type things, we will all glean something from it and those who are bystanders as well. Maybe even my mistakes in communications. I am not a very good communicator as you can tell. My intentions are not to be divisive but many times that is what happens. Sorry brother.
God Bless

 2008/5/8 23:27









 Re:

Boy... for a few minutes there I thought I was gonna have to take you two out behind the barn!

;-)

Krispy

 2008/5/9 7:24





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