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dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: there is real Holy Laughter

while I do not endorse what happened in Canada and other places it really needs to be noted the following: Psa 126:1 When the Lord restored the fortunes of Zion,
we were like those who dream.
Psa 126:2 Our mouths were filled with laughter -----the result of this kind of laughter was freedom from and restoration of the covenant blessings of God. I have seen real holy laughter which has brought freedom from bondages and sinful habits, I have also seen the excesses and misuse of God's anointing, much like what we see in the life of Samson. I dont understand it and I dont always agree with what I see but I've become real slow at calling things demonic because God does not force thoughs He anoints to become super robots to do His will. There is always choice, nothings ever forced, we are never with out choice. Thats why the giver of talents can judge righteously what each servant does with that talent that was entrusted to him/her--some 1 talent some 3 talents some 5 talents. The same principle runs along the lines of anointings. Personally I would stop all laughter in the church, maybe even cancel all joy too while I was at it and maybe even christmas-----JUST kidding! As for other religions? As for other peoples? As for other Movements? "When we compare our selves by our selves we are unwise". I don't say not to discern, for the spiritual man discerns all things, but dont let your knowledge become a stumbling block for those with a weaker sense of discernment and judgement but gently instruct those. And as Jude Jud 1:23 save others by snatching them from the fire; on others have mercy in fear, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.


_________________
D.Miller

 2008/5/1 21:00Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Test

[i]My! Sometimes my soul is jarred when I hear people flippantly say: "Have you got your baptism?" Supposing that Jesus was on the cross, and we were privileged tonight to look into His face at this hour, I wonder what the feeling of our soul would be? Supposing we were to follow tonight behind the weeping company that bore His dead body and laid it in the tomb, what would our feelings be? Supposing we were to meet Him in the garden, as Mary did, in the glory of His resurrection or supposing that God in His goodness would let us look into that scene of scenes at the Throne of God, when the heavens lifted up their gates, and the Lord of Glory came in. Oh, if we could, beloved, we would have a better comprehension of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost

I love that dear old word "Ghost." The Anglo-Saxon is "Ghost" a spiritual guest, heavenly visitor, spiritual presence, the Angel One. And that Angel One that comes to you and me, comes right out of the heart of the Eternal God, breathed through the soul of Jesus Christ! When it came upon a man originally, as it did upon the hundred and twenty at Jerusalem, no one went around saying: "Brother, have you got your baptism?" They were walking with their shoes off, with uncovered heads and uncovered hearts before the Eternal God!

I believe that the first essential in a real Holy Ghost church and a real Holy Ghost work, is to begin to surround the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with that due reverence of God with which an experience so sacred, and that cost such an awful price, should be surrounded.

John G Lake[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23302&forum=35]The Dr lake factor[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/5/1 23:05Profile









 Re: Psalm 1:

Brother tom here: I never said anything about "lumping in the feathers with the turkey", except to imply that at times, we all, who have been born again, have reacted to the Lord Jesus' inspiration within the scope of emotions that He created us. This is not about Holy Laughter, as much as it is creating manifestations as a "badge", or "endorsement" from God, and then using it to profit, or to then endorse themselves, as being a prophet, to extract gain from the naive church .

I stated that Bar-Jesus wanted the same thing from the Apostle, as he evidently saw a means to fame and fortune displaying "power from god".


I will however say this about lumping. [b]"A LITTLE LEAVEN LEAVENS THE WHOLE LUMP."
[/b]


Yes, freedom and liberty to laugh in meetings, should be allowed, as long as the Holy Spirit Himself is allowing. We could quench Him either way. It is why Shepherds were ordained in the local assembly, to allow the Holy Spirit to remain unquenched, and absolute Lord as He determines to act. Much damage has been done here by careless elders, that refused to judge fruit and doctrine, and received so called "power", and success as the only venue necessary to minister.


Grievous wolves have entered the sheepfold, unhindered, and many young lambs have been wounded and devoured. Their [the Florida "revival"] fruit has been judged, by the Word, and many statements condemning themselves as agents of darkness are evident.[b]There has been no Godly discernment![/b]


Just because there is liberty and freedom to respond to God, doesn't mean that it is of God, especially when the Holy Spirit is so obviously defiled. This is man centered, man honoring, and unclean, and that means that it is not Jesus centered, Jesus honoring, and Holy. The Spirit and the Word agree, as per multiple testimony from each.



Father , give us annointed Holy Shepherds that will faithfully feed, protect, and manifest your absolute Lordship and Head over your body, in these last days of increasing deception. We need help! amen.

 2008/5/2 0:26









 Re:

Quote:
I would like to clarify something.
i do not need to or desire to defend a Holy laughter. Or tongues or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Or any gift.
my beef is the corporate blanketing of "all"

As bro Tom put it. lumping in the feathers with the turkey.
Not a pretty sight.
So if there is counterfeit laughter and you found it more power to you.
But when you say all Holy Laughter is the devil?

All I need is one example and that little rumor is destroyed.

You will never have freedom in a fellowship where you can control everything.
By the same token the Holy Spirit will not invade where he is controlled.


David



David, with all due respect, this is just more of your nonsense. Dont get me wrong, I love you in Christ, but your posts are so far off scripturally that I do feel the need to be more blunt with you because what I see in your writings is what I see in the modern day church... and it needs to stop.

No one here is putting God "in a box". God can do whatever it is that He wills to do. However, He will [b]never[/b] violate His own word. We have examples in scripture of how the Holy Spirit operates. God has not left us ignorant of that... unless we choose to be ignorant.

This so-called "Holy Laughter", which I have witnessed with my own eyes at the Brownsville "revival" in the late 1990's, is no where to be found in the Bible. It is not in scripture, therefore it is "unscriptural". David, that [b]is[/b] the definition of the word "unscriptural".

On top of that, scripture makes it extremely clear that one of the fruits of being filled with the Holy Spirit is [b]self-control[/b], and being of [b]sound mind[/b].

So not only do we not see "holy laughter" in scripture, making it unscriptural, we also have scripture saying that if your filled with the Holy Spirit you will do exactly the [b]opposite[/b].

I'm not ignorant of what goes on at these "revivals". I used to buy into them hook, line and sinker. I went to Brownsville at least 4 times that I can remember. Kirkpatrick himself pushed me to the floor. I was into all that. I watched Rodney-Howard Brown do his thing and get everyong doing "Holy Laughter". I believe Kirkpatrick was at least a very sincere man, but Rodney-Howard Brown is a crock. He's as bad as Benny Hinn.

I cant believe I was deceived by these people... yet, thats what you get when you dont know the Word of Godl.

Now that I have had time to mature in Christ, and stopped reading all the Benny Hinn books, and all the other authors, and started reading and [b]studying[/b] the Bible for myself... we left the movement. I stopped letting people tell me what the Bible said, and I started letting the [b]BIBLE[/b] start telling me what the Bible said... along with much assistance from the Holy Spirit.

David, you can go on and on... and put words in our mouths, and claim we're saying things that we never said... which you do all the time, including this last post. Thats fine. If you're ok with make false accusations and lying about your brethren publicly, then you're the one who has to stand before God.

You are a loose cannon.

Oh I long for the day when you come here and discuss scripture, and discuss these issues using scripture as your basis instead of your own opinions.

I know I seem harsh with you. It's only because I look at you and I see where I was 12 years ago... and I wish someone had spoken to me the way I am speaking to you. But I think at that time I probably would have not listened either. But if they had, and I had listened, it would have saved me a lot of time and trouble... and money.

One thing you need to do, brother, is listen more and talk less. And stop characterizing your brethren here... who love you... as ignorant fools. What your basically accusing us of is blasphemey. But since scripture seems to be on our side, and you cant seem to knit two passages together to support your position... I'd be real careful about who you accuse of what.

Krispy

 2008/5/2 7:40
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Holy laughter also occurred in early evangelical and holiness circles. Jonathan Edwards describes the reaction of some who were converted in the Great Awakening revival: "Their joyful surprise has caused their hearts as it were to leap, so that they have been ready to break forth into laughter, tearing often at the same time issuing like a flood, and intermingling a loud weeping."17 E. M. Bounds records Wesley saying, "The power of God came mightily upon us, so that many cried out for exceeding joy, and many fell to the ground."18 Charles Finney wrote that after he testified about his experience of being baptized in the Spirit, a usually serious elder of his church "fell into a most spasmodic laughter. It seemed as if it was impossible for him to keep from laughing from the very bottom of his heart"

"The kingdom of God is . . . peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17).
"Ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory" (1 Peter 1:8)


ps 126;2;

2Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The LORD hath done great things for them


Jessie Penn-Lewis recounts manifestations of holy laughter and being drunk in the Spirit taking place during the Australian Keswick Convention of 1891:

The Convention was marked by clean-cut surrender to God for all His will to be done at all costs, and by an overflowing joy which followed in hundreds of hearts, so that, as Mr. George Soltau wrote, "Literally 'our mouths were filled with laughter and our tongues with singing'. . . . It was impossible to restrain one's heart, the Lord giving us such a foretaste of heaven. Talk of "fleshly excitement," I wish to bear my testimony that it was nothing less than the fulness of the Spirit. We were verily drunk with the joy of the Lord, and with the vistas of the possibilities of faith opening up to the fully surrendered life of the believer. But it was equally manifest to us all that this joy and blessing is only to be received and retained and increased by the death to self and of self and the most painful crucifixion of self

In 1897 A.B. Simpson wrote that one of the effects of being filled with the Spirit is "fullness of Joy so that the heart is constantly radiant. This does not depend on circumstances, but fills the spirit with holy laughter in the midst of the most trying surroundings."21 Simpson himself records in his diary on September 12, 1907, that he experienced holy laughter for more than an hour.22

Oswald Chambers also recorded in his diary on April 19, 1907: "Last night we had a blessed time. I was called down by the teachers to pray and anoint a lady who wanted healing, and as we were doing it God came so near that upon my word we were laughing as well as praying! How utterly stilted we are in our approach to God. Oh that we lived more up to the light of all our glorious privileges."23 Chambers evidently believed that laughter could be a sign of revival and, like Simpson, a result of the baptism in the Spirit.24


My there sure are a lot of us loose cannons

 2008/5/2 8:40Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Krispy, let me say first that I agree with your exhortation to David. And I hope he will humble himself and took to heart.

But I think something much more profitable could come out of this thread, particularly for you, but also for every one else.

You said:

Quote:
One thing you need to do, brother, is listen more and talk less.



Krispy, if this council you gave to David is valid, it is even in times much more valid for yourself. The very fact of the number of posts of your name, but even this is not so important, but something else, much more important, it's the way, authenticity and reality put in those words.

I believe three or more (I would call them 'prophets') told you that, but you didn't took them to heart and continue in the same way.

One of the most valid and right on the spot was one word that was given to you one year ago, which you refuse it, [i]immediately[/i] (after only 17 min. - so sad)

It was given here [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16599&forum=34#128836]here[/url] , particularly the second paragraph, beginning with:

"There are many teachers who can expound on the word, but the word is not at all rooted in them. Do you know you can expound on the word and still be a slumbering christian? There are many teachers who uses human authority to share the word because they have no spiritual authority."

It cannot be said more accurately.

It is wonderful that the Lord brought you out of the charismatic foolishness. But this is far from to think that the churches and movements you left, and now what you have 'reached' is the authenticity in which you and the house church you are preaching are what the spiritual reality in which we are called to live as a body of Christ and men walking in the Spirit.

Although I agree with some of your stands on some subjects, but the authority of God, the truth in the inner parts, the anointing of the Spirit, the reality around you and the reality in the heavenly places, the real understanding of spiritual truths of the church and the world, is [i]missing[/i].

You don't have to answer to this quickly as most of the times, and you don't have to answer at all.

You have said much here (more than thousands other members of this forum) and it is time to take your own council to consideration. The main purpose of this site is not something else, but to spread the messages of some godly saints, who have came to a place of that reality that is required of us. If your heart longs for that, you can profit much from this site, much more that you have ever imagined. Like many other saints who have few posts, but profited so much, listening those messages and reading those articles.

If you would like some help in a certain direction, with some recommendations of sermons or something else, feel free to write, we (including me) would gladly give you links enough solid food and meat that is good for spiritual growing. Use your own council and use the benefits of this site . And the main benefits are not the 'talking' here on the forums, but the materials that are provided.

We are about to face the most terrible days in the history, and it will require reality in ourselves and in the church in order to go through these days with [i]glory and joy[/i], suffering with the Lord and for the Lord. Otherwise, utter confusion and deception will prevail, not knowing which path to take.

Kire

 2008/5/2 8:57Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

This is a previous post I made;

Quote;
"And about speaking in tongues, I speak in tongues. I believe in laughing and in the joy of the Lord as well."

And this speaking in tongues,are you aware that religious men will try to tell you that you do so under the power of the devil?

They bring strong scriptural doctrine to try and take from you what you know is God.
You did not acquire this gift,you received it. No man can take it from you. It is from heaven and I nor anyone else can convince you otherwise.

It is a glorious thing to have something personally given them of God. This doesnt happen everyday and it is priceless. You didn't earn it or deserve it.
But you know it came from heaven.

now you know that some are able to "manufacture" tongues.
Or maybe satan can counterfeit tongues.

They can throw all these arguments at you but you know that you know that you know it is God all the way!

It is so glorious being in his presence. I love revival and seeing people touched and receiving their miracles.

Quote:
"No one can convince you, pray and ask God if this truly is of God or a delusion because those who love NOT the truth in it's entirety will be deceived."

And no one can convince you through scripture that your gift of tongues is of the devil.
Even if they show counterfeit tongues from utube.

Thank God we have him and not just a Book.
we have the one that wrote the book living in us.

"My sheep know my voice"


David

The gifts from god are different than what you acquire. You dont deserve his gifts but he gives them anyway.

Can we find any example of tongues being misused or manufactured?

So for consistency sake we will blast tongue talkers?

John the revelator did not come off patmos wondering if he received from a false God.

He KNEW it was God.

John 10:4

4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

Holy Laughter meetings came and went for me but the wonderful fruit still remains to this day.
When i come up against life and death situations and i find myself in intercession I sometimes experience the Laughter.
God is good and anything he hands me is RIGHT.
Even when he judges me He is right and good.

The Holy Laughter meetings were awesome and I will always be thankful for that wonderful time. So many were delivered and healed and set free.

Those times are precious and I dont know of any Holy Laughter going on now.

I have been born again,baptised in the Holy Spirit,and been through deliverance.

All were of God no matter what some man may say .

I know who my redeemer is. And I am sure someone can come up with plenty of scripture against born again,Baptism,and deliverance,and laughter,and I am also sure they will feel like champions,having put down what God did in my life,but in the end they hurt only themselves.

No man can take what God gives. Even if I surrender the back of my neck to the sword,that is the ultimate.

David

 2008/5/2 9:18Profile









 Re: holy laughter

"The kingdom of God is . . . peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17).
"Ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory" (1 Peter 1:)

I don't believe that Paul and Peter were speaking of an instant occasion of spirit filled laughter. Look at the context of each verse:

"But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men."

Paul is discussing petty disputes over matters insignificant that can lead to getting caught up in things unimportant to God. The joy Paul speaks of in this passage is an overall joy of living in peace with fellow bretheren to carry out His purpose instead of nit-picking over what to eat or drink. This is not a passage that pertains to this 'modern day holy laughter'.

Peter 1:

"5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow"

Here Peter discusses the trials of Christians that is tempered with the joy that we have in being rewarded for our faith that is tested by fire. Again I don't see any correlation here to a holy laughter as a temporary 'exctatic' event of the Spirit taking place. Even if Finney or Bounds described 'an experience' I don't see this experience in the writings of any of the apostles in the Gospel and certainly not in the context that we see today. When Peter described Pentecost as people accused them of 'being drunk he was discussing the speaking of tongues as something that the Prophet Joel spoke of. There was no mention of laughter just tongues as it would seem that speaking in tongues would simulate 'slurring of words' signifying drunkenness.

When I look at the context of Bible I don't see holy laughter in the context we speak of today. You would think that if this was such a manifestation of the Spirit, Paul, Peter or one of the Apostles would have expounded more specifically on it as they do the gifts of the Spirit. But they don't and that pretty much settles the issue for me. Thanks.

 2008/5/2 9:20
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
My there sure are a lot of us loose cannons



David,

[b]1 Corinthians 14:20[/b]

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

You are expressing utter childish behaviour. Not taking to heart the words that were given to you, but repeating the words of the saints, taken OUT of context and words that has [i]nothing[/i] to do with the 'holy' laughter that you are promoting.

You ought to be man of truth, man who love the truth, and not to [i]misuse[/i] the words of the saints. If you have just read and understand the writings and the life of Edwards, Bounds, Wesley, Tozer, Finney, you wouldn't dare to post and characterize these brothers words into what you call 'holy' laughter which has nothing common between them.

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=1SgByE0pX1M

You are already in a dangerous zone, rejecting the authority of Scripture. Meditate on 2 Th. 2 chapter. and consider it as a mercy of God that you are here and someone can correct you, as many brothers did. But if you refuse the correction, the scripture doesn't give any further hope. Consider it as a mercy that you are here, given to you by the Lord. You didn't have to be here, and you didn't have to hear the exhortation of the brothers, it is a mercy. And if you refuse it, further more, nothing could be said or done.

 2008/5/2 9:23Profile









 Re:

David... it might surprise you to know that I'm not against speaking in tongues. I do think it is widely abused, and in a lot of cases it is done out of order. But I have never once said that tongues is not of God.

You whine about people making blanket statements about the things you promote... "holy laughter", so-called "revivals" (which are not revivals by definition)... yet you turn around and make blanket statements about anyone who might question some things... calling them "religious" people, etc.

You're being a hypocrite in the worst fashion.

Krispy

 2008/5/2 9:28





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