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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Elohiym: Creator

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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

[u][b]Isaiah 64:6 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."


Your works are as filthy rags to Him.


[u][b]Revelation 3:1-6 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/4/11 18:01Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Amen Paul,

If even with the help of the Christ we have in us we could keep all the commandments (Law), Why would Christ have to die. Could He not say Here I am, the Son of God and now with me you can keep all the commandments (Law). I think He tried that, it got Him killed on a tree.

Why do we then have a new Seed born again in us with the Mind of Christ and the Nature of God within us, if putting a new heart and mind in us we could do all that the kingdom offers to Israel, in His millineal reign over this earth. Why did they kill Him? Yes Paul and Paul West, you are so totally completely right when you say God knew of course that Israel could not do it, and the Gentiles could not either. But God in Christ Jesus planting the alone abiding Seed, Christ Himself in the Ground, with new resurrection life by the power of God that Seed is bringing forth much fruit. That fruit is the Christian believer in The Son of God, the only one that could fulfill the Law and is now fulfilling not only the Law in us, but also bringing God's on sons into His House, not Christs Kingdom on this earth, which will be Israel and all those that will believe in Christ at that time and then He will put His words into their heart, which we have total and complete in the life of Christ in us, already giving us a new nature, Gods nature, we don't need the Law or the Commandments to keep, we are the law and the commandments on this earth, just like He is so are we.

What difference in doing works for salvation and having it by the Free Grace of God through the Faith of Jesus Christ and having to have new hearts put in us and having to have written words put in us also. Our Glory is all this is fulfilled in Christ and we are His body the Church. All baptized into One Spirit, which is Christ and Him giving us the Comforter to rightly divide the Word that we might see the Glory of God in Christ Jesus who is now our life in all that we do. My mind must be renewed to this Mind that is now ours. "For we have the Mind of Christ", already.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It is only Him that we serve God because in the flesh we serve our old father the devil.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We don't need a new heart, we have Him.

We don't need His word written in us, He is the Word.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

The Sabbath? We are the Sabbath ourselves, because He that is in us is our Rest, (Sabbath).

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Gentiles who do the things of God without the Law are the Law unto themselves.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

That is the Christ in you.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

It is such a shame that the Seventh Day Sabbath is a stumbling stone to those who keep the Law and cannot see the freedom in Christ our Law Keeper and enabler of all that we do in Him.

He Keeps the Law and because of Him we keep the Law out of Love not out of duty or fear.

Galatians 5:1-5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/11 19:37Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I "Amen" your full post, Phillip. I bless God that your eyes are open to the truth and power of the abiding Christ and nothing of ourselves. How wonderful is the rest from striving and working and doing and observing! Blessed grace. In Him and Him alone is the fulfillment of all things required by God and we who have been baptized into His death have also been raised in Him to live a life of overcoming. Blessed be our Lord and God who always gives us victory in Christ!


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/4/11 20:11Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

You can Pontificate all you want.

If He is Lord, you will obey His commandments. Otherwise, you transgress His law.

 2008/4/11 21:04Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2787
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Thank God for the Covenant of Grace!

[url=http://www.exadventist.com/]Ex Adventist.com[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2008/4/11 21:28Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4), that grace may bound? GOD FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin,(the "transgression of the law"), live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"Even so,faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." Ja 2:17.

 2008/4/11 21:36Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Christinyou (Philip) you said:
"The Sabbath? We are the Sabbath ourselves, because He that is in us is our Rest, (Sabbath)"

If that is true, then why did the apostle Paul say:
2 Cor 2:13 [b]I had no rest in my spirit,[/b] because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

Paul clearly states he had no rest IN HIS SPIRIT.

Also, has it ever dawned on people that "rest" in greek and "sabbath" are TWO DIFFERENT words.

If Jesus is our rest or sabbath in the sense that we do not have to observe the sabbath-then that would mean that Jesus is also our Holiness, and we do not have to live Holy because he is our holiness. But that is absurd right?

The fact is, there is no scripture, nor teaching in the Bible whatsoever that Christ changed the Sabbath Day, or replaced the Sabbath Day with himself.

Jesus himself is King of the Jews, and the covenant of the Sabbath was " for ever, perpetual"-and the last time I checked, "for ever" meant..............."for ever"

Exodus 31:12-18
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a [b]perpetual covenant.[/b] 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel [b]for ever:[/b] for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Weren't jews, the first Christians?
Doesn't the Bible say or teach that a real follower of Christ, though he be a Gentile outwardly, he is really of jew inwardly-because he is circumcized of heart?

Rom 2: 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 [b]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit[/b], and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Isn't Rom 2:29 the description of a Christian?-yet he is called a "Jew Inwardly"-maybe because it is the same Christ who is in us, his same Spirit-that he himself, is the jew in us.

The Bible says let this MIND that was in Christ Jesus be in us-well the mind that Christ had was to obey ALL the Father's Commandments, and that even included keeping the Sabbath DAY holy unto the Lord.




 2008/4/11 23:10Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

God is speaking of Spiritual Rest in the Assurance of Salvation in Christ Jesus.

Paul is speaking of the flesh having on rest in his spirit.

This is one time when Paul should have trusted Christ and did not.

His rest was still in Christ or he would have not left for Macedonia.

The Law is dead. How will we survive? Christ Jesus. I serve the Law through Him.

Romans 7:4-25 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/11 23:23Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
God is speaking of Spiritual Rest in the Assurance of Salvation in Christ Jesus.

Paul is speaking of the flesh having on rest in his spirit.

This is one time when Paul should have trusted Christ and did not.

His rest was still in Christ or he would have not left for Macedonia.

The Law is dead. How will we survive? Christ Jesus. I serve the Law through Him.

Romans 7:4-25 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In Christ: Phillip





Wherefore the law is [b]holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good[/b]. Was then that which is good made death unto me? [b]God forbid.[/b] But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [b]For we know that the law is spiritual[/b]: but I am carnal

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God..."

Rest in Greek: Anapauo, Anapausis
to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
to give rest, refresh, to give one's self rest, take rest
to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation

Sabbath in Greek: Sabbaton
the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
a single sabbath, sabbath day
[b]seven days, a week[/b]

Two total different definitions

The word rest in Heb 4:10 is this:
Rest:Katapausis
a putting to rest
calming of the winds
a resting place
metaph. the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers AFTER the toils and trials of life on earth are ended

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 [b]eLet us labour therefore TO ENTER into that rest[/b], lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief

The rest in this verse, happens at the end of the believers life, when they die on earth and enter into Heaven-this is not talking about the Sabbath Day.

Paul in verse 11 " Let us LABOR therefore TO ENTER INTO ..." future tense, meaning, as of yet WE HAVE NOT YET ENTERED INTO THAT REST-because that rest only happens at death in Christ. In verse 10 Paul is talking about Christians who have ALREADY died or went on to be with the Lord, in his presence. This is brought out in:

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, [b]that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.[/b]

Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

JESUS is still LORD, to this very day-if the Sabbath is no longer the 7th Day as some say on this forum, then you have made Jesus a Liar-because even Jesus says He is Lord OF THE SABBATH DAY. To say that the Sabbath is no longer a day, is to say that there are only 6 days in a week now.

The "day" that Christ became your LORD, he was still "Lord even of the Sabbath Day-and He still is even to this Day, Lord of the Sabbath Day.

 2008/4/11 23:57Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Anyway you try to spin it, bondage to a day is not of Christ.


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Christiaan

 2008/4/12 1:41Profile





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