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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Elohiym: Creator

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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
The teaching that God Himself knew we could never keep the commandments is very common, but also unbiblical.



Is it unbiblical? The law instituted was made to bring us to Christ, and not so that we would continue to strive to keep the commandments ourselves. The commandments bring death and an awareness of sin to all who strive to keep them. Consider Jesus' shattering expansion of the commandments into the realm of the heart. Failure of the 7th by secret lust! Failure of the 6th by hatred! Failure not by the physical aspect of adultery and murder, but by the secret, hidden, spiritual contrivances of the heart. Who here can say they have without burden and full of joy kept all the commandments, honestly, before God "who knoweth the secrets of the heart" (Psalm 44:21), and still remain blameless in His light? This was God's purpose. The scripture you cite from Deuteronomy 30 is incomplete without citing the preceding verse as well:

"If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God to keep His [i]commandments[/i] and his statues which are written in the book of the [i]law[/i]..."

You failed to mention that the commandments are all part of a greater, unified whole, called the [i]law[/i]. Violating one commandment causes all of them to fall upon you like a guilty train of dominoes. The law was inscribed on the heart of man to bring a personal awareness of sin when trangessed, to bring a pricking of the conscience when broken for the ultimate purpose of driving the guilty sinner to God for redemption through blood sacrifice. This was determined even before the law was given, before Abraham and sabbath observance instituted - the precious Lamb of God was already slain.

No, my friend, it is unbiblical to say God expects man to keep the commandments independant of the indwelling, enpowering grace of the New Covenant.

Until you can see yourself as worm of the dust, unable to do anything but fail and grieve the Spirit, God's grace and power cannot work in you. As long as you refuse to surrender and reckon yourself dead to your commandment-fulfilling abilities, mortify your flesh by the Spirit and say, "Lord, I [i]cannot[/i] keep Thy commandments. Please, Lord, live Thine own commandment-fulfilling life through me," you will be defeated and blinded, preaching and teaching from a false premise and leading everyone astray who listens to you. If we have an improper understanding of grace, we will strive to keep the commandments even in our Christian walk..and this, also, will inevitably end up in failure, defeat, and depression. You know what I am talking about, because you have failed also, many times, and still do despite all your striving. You experience this perpetual cycle: a period of victory, followed by a crushing defeat, another victory, followed another defeat. The harder you try to keep the commandments, the harder you fall. This is not true New Testament Christianity; this is the Old Testament [i]trying[/i] to obey the commandments out of a sense of compulsion to not disobey God in the flesh and simultaneously trying to hold onto your salvation in Christ.

Which brings us back full-round to the false doctrine that Christians [i]must[/i] keep the physical Sabbath in the flesh under fear of disobeying God.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/4/11 15:34Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

He wouldn't give us commandments to obey, if we could not. Again, He gives us the power to obey His Word.

The children of Israel said, that, they could keep His Covenant in their own strength, but failed. Ex 24:7. Under the New Covenant, the Lord engraves His Covenant in our hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10. Then He puts His Spirit within us and enables us to keep His Word.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31.

When we transgress the law, or, sin, the Holy Spirit convicts us, we repent, and are changed into His image. This is what sanctification is all about.

Paul told Timothy, that, he served God with a pure conscience.2 Tim 1:3. That, is what walking in the Spirit is all about.

None of the Ten Commandments are optional.

 2008/4/11 15:44Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

It really gets tiring listening to the same old rhetoric from those who wish to impose flesh on the spirit.

For any Christian reading what the bondage folks are saying, throw it where it needs to go, in the trash.

To all who wish to keep Christians in bondage. May the Lord have mercy on your souls.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/4/11 16:22Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

So,you believe, that, you can bow down to and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor you parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet and walk with Him in holiness?

When did the Ten Commandments become optional?

 2008/4/11 16:30Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


sscr01 wrote:

Quote:


So,you believe, that, you can bow down to and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor you parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet and walk with Him in holiness?





This is what I believe. I believe that you speak as a false prophet on this subject and will need to answer to the Lord on that day, with much fear and trembling.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/4/11 16:35Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

I quote the Word of God.

If you feared Him, you would obey His Word.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

 2008/4/11 16:58Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

[b]1 timothy 1:8-11[/b]
8We know that the law is good [b]if one uses it properly[/b]. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

the word shows us that the law was not made for the righteous man, but for the unrighteous. why?? to show us our sin that we might turn to Christ.

[b]galatians 3:24-25[/b]
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

[b]galatians 3:2-4[/b]
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

[b]romans 4:1-16[/b]
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

[b]galatians 2:21[/b]
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

phil

 2008/4/11 17:19Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

sscr01 wrote:

Quote:


I quote the Word of God.

If you feared Him, you would obey His Word.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.




Your words are filled with deceit. You come to fill believers with fear and trembling without authority of the Holy Spirit. You teach unsound doctrine. You have rejected Christ.

I do not fear your rebuke, your words or you, but only the Holy One, The Rightous Judge, Jesus Christ, whom I worship and who breaks the chains that pull us down.

I stand before God, crucified with Christ.

Let Your fire burn, consuming me, Lord Jesus.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/4/11 17:27Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in [b]"ALL" the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.[/b]

Looks like Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous by walking in ALL the commandments of God-this would include ALL 10 wouldn't it?

Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: 40 [b]That ye may remember, and DO ALL MY COMMANDMENTS, AND BE HOLY unto your God[/b]. 41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.

What came first, be holy, or "remember AND DO ALL my commandments"? God did tell them to "DO ALL my commandments"?

Deut 5: 26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it. 28 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken. 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, [b]and KEEP ALL MY COMMANDMENTS ALWAYS[/b], that it might be well with them, and with their children FOR EVER!

Deut 6:22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, F29 upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes: 23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers. 24 And the LORD commanded us TO DO all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, ".[u][b][size=large][color=0000CC]IF[/color][/size][/b][/u]WE OBSERVE TO DO ALL THESE COMMANDMENTS before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us

Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of "thy word": [b]for all thy commandments are righteousness.[/b]

Isn't "thy word"-Jesus Christ the Word of God as taught in John 1:1? But in Psalm 119, we have David likening " thy word"-to be "ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which are RIGHTEOUSNESS"?

Paul West mentioned earlier, that the law was meant to " BRING US TO CHRIST"-and that is indeed true, however we must remember that a man can ONLY COME TO CHRIST, if the Father has drawn him by the Spirit. The only thing that can "bring us to Christ" is the Spirit of God/Christ-what does that say about the law?

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [b]to bring us unto Christ[/b], that we might be justified by faith

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, [b]except the Father which hath sent me draw him[/b]: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, [b]except it were given unto him of my Father.[/b]

So what does that say about the law? That God used the law/Spirit to draw/bring men unto Christ.









 2008/4/11 17:28Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

Again, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the law."

Again, ""Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son, upon the altar?" Ja 2.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead, also." Ja 2.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."

If you do not obey His Word, then, you cannot call Him, Lord.

 2008/4/11 17:42Profile





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