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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Foolishness

How long do you guy's wish to keep this up? You are both stubborn as a rock and keep attempting to advert the meaning and intentions of those verses you apply esigesis to (reading into) rather than properly exegeting the passages.

I am no theologian in the proper sense but you are confusing the issues greatly. The section in Acts that was brought forth to prove your case does not do that for you. Read through the whole context, at least as far back as chapter 12 through to the end of the book. Paul is making a concession to the Jews as he has done and stated elsewhere;

[i]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.[/i] 1Co 9:19-23

[i]Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.[/i] 1Co 10:32,33

Within the account in Acts;

[i]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could [b]not be justified by the law of Moses.[/b] Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost. [/i] Act 13:39-51

[i]And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. But there rose up certain of the [b]sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.[/b] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; [b]And put no difference between us and them[/b], purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore [b]why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples[/b], which [u]neither our fathers nor we were able to bear[/u]? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [b]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day[/b]. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard, that [b]certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:[/b] It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to [b]lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well.[/b] Fare ye well. So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
[/i] Act 15:4-32

[i]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [/i] Mat 5:17-20

[b]Mat_5:17-48.[/b] [i]Identity of these principles with those of the ancient economy; in contrast with the reigning traditional teaching.[/i]

[i]Exposition of Principles (Mat_5:17-20).[/i]

[b]Think not that I am come[/b] — that I came.

[b]to destroy the law, or the prophets[/b] — that is, “the authority and principles of the Old Testament.” (On the phrase, see Mat_7:12; Mat_22:40; Luk_16:16; Act_13:15). This general way of taking the phrase is much better than understanding “the law” and “the prophets” separately, and inquiring, as many good critics do, in what sense our Lord could be supposed to meditate the subversion of each. To the various classes of His hearers, who might view such supposed abrogation of the law and the prophets with very different feelings, our Lord’s announcement would, in effect, be such as this - “Ye who tremble at the word of the Lord, [i]fear[/i] not that I am going to sweep the foundation from under your feet: Ye restless and revolutionary spirits, [i]hope[/i] not that I am going to head any revolutionary movement: And ye who hypocritically affect great reverence for the law and the prophets, [i]pretend[/i] not to find anything in My teaching derogatory to God’s living oracles.”

[b]I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil[/b] — Not to subvert, abrogate, or annul, but to establish the law and the prophets - to unfold them, to embody them in living form, and to enshrine them in the reverence, affection, and character of men, am I come.

Mat 5:18 -
[b]For verily I say unto you[/b] — Here, for the first time, does that august expression occur in our Lord’s recorded teaching, with which we have grown so familiar as hardly to reflect on its full import. It is the expression manifestly, of [i]supreme legislative authority[/i]; and as the subject in connection with which it is uttered is the Moral Law, no higher claim to an authority [i]strictly divine[/i] could be advanced. For when we observe how jealously Jehovah asserts it as His exclusive prerogative to give law to men (Lev_18:1-5; Lev_19:37; Lev_26:1-4, Lev_26:13-16, etc.), such language as this of our Lord will appear totally unsuitable, and indeed abhorrent, from any creature lips. When the Baptist’s words - “I say unto you” (Mat_3:9) - are compared with those of his Master here, the difference of the two cases will be at once apparent.

[b]Till heaven and earth pass[/b] — Though even the Old Testament announces the ultimate “perdition of the heavens and the earth,” in contrast with the immutability of Jehovah (Psa_102:24-27), the prevalent representation of the heavens and the earth in Scripture, when employed as a popular figure, is that of their [i]stability[/i] (Psa_119:89-91; Ecc_1:4; Jer_33:25, Jer_33:26). It is the enduring stability, then, of the great truths and principles, moral and spiritual, of the Old Testament revelation which our Lord thus expresses.

[b]one jot[/b] — the smallest of the [i]Hebrew[/i] letters.

[b]one tittle[/b] — one of those little strokes by which alone some of the [i]Hebrew[/i] letters are distinguished from others like them.

[b]shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled[/b] — The meaning is that “not so much as the smallest loss of authority or vitality shall ever come over the law.” The expression, “till all be fulfilled,” is much the same in meaning as “it [i]shall[/i] be had in undiminished and enduring honor, from its greatest to its least requirements.” Again, this general way of viewing our Lord’s words here seems far preferable to that [i]doctrinal[/i] understanding of them which would require us to determine the different kinds of “fulfillment” which the [i]moral[/i] and the [i]ceremonial[/i] parts of it were to have.

Mat 5:19 -
[b]Whosoever therefore shall break[/b] — rather, “dissolve,” “annul,” or “make invalid.”

[b]one of these least commandments[/b] — an expression equivalent to “one of the least of these commandments.”

[b]and shall teach men so[/b] — referring to the Pharisees and their teaching, as is plain from Mat_5:20, but of course embracing all similar schools and teaching in the Christian Church.

[b]he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven[/b] — As the thing spoken of is not the practical breaking, or disobeying, of the law, but annulling or enervating its obligation by a vicious system of interpretation, and teaching others to do the same; so the thing threatened is not exclusion from heaven, and still less the lowest place in it, but a degraded and contemptuous position in the present stage of the kingdom of God. In other words, they shall be reduced by the retributive providence that overtakes them, to the same condition of dishonor to which, by their system and their teaching, they have brought down those eternal principles of God’s law.

[b]but whosoever shall do and teach them[/b] — whose principles and teaching go to exalt the authority and honor of God’s law, in its lowest as well as highest requirements.

[b]the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven[/b] — shall, by that providence which watches over the honor of God’s moral administration, be raised to the same position of authority and honor to which they exalt the law.

Mat 5:20 -
[b]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees[/b] — The superiority to the Pharisaic righteousness here required is plainly in [i]kind[/i], not [i]degree[/i]; for all Scripture teaches that entrance into God’s kingdom, whether in its present or future stage, depends, not on the degree of our excellence in anything, but solely on our having the character itself which God demands. Our righteousness, then - if it is to contrast with the [i]outward[/i] and [i]formal[/i] righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees - must be [i]inward, vital, spiritual[/i]. Some, indeed, of the scribes and Pharisees themselves might have the very righteousness here demanded; but our Lord is speaking, not of persons, but of the [i]system[/i] they represented and taught.

[b]ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven[/b] — If this refer, as in Mat_5:19, rather to the earthly stage of this kingdom, the meaning is that without a righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees, we cannot be members of it at all, save in name. This was no new doctrine (Rom_2:28, Rom_2:29; Rom_9:6; Phi_3:3). But our Lord’s teaching here stretches beyond the present scene, to that everlasting stage of the kingdom, where without “purity of heart” none “shall see God.”

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown

...."distinctions of meats.....these are not "rites", and are never called "rites" in the Scripture, but part of the eternal Law of God. Certain meats were declared an abomination to God, and are still shown to be such in Isaiah 66:17: "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says YHVH".

[i]And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.[/i] Act 10:13-15

Mike Balog

 2008/4/27 11:54Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Quote: "How long do you guy's wish to keep this up?"

Until They have a revelation of the Christ within them.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Hard and good work Mike.

Your brother in Christ: Phillip


 2008/4/27 17:40Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Quote: by sscr01 out of context.

""Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.""

We only establish the Law by the Law Keeper Himself, Jesus Christ in us.

Romans 3:9-13 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

This is the Law, including the Sabbath Day.

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Without the Law::::::

Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Your Sabbath is by the Faith of Jesus Christ unto all them that believe.

You fall short of The Sabbath if you keep it as a day of the Law.

Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The Only Sabbath is the redemption in Jesus Christ Himself. Your keeping of the Sabbath Day as a fulfilling Law of your salvation is sin, instead of the Person of Jesus Christ the only Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:26-27 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: (Added for context: of the Sabbath Day), but by the law of faith.

Is your Faith in Jesus Christ the True Sabbath Himself, where we can only achieve the Rest God swear by Himself that we should enter.

Now!!!! we establish the Law by Him that is in us. He is our Sabbath and our rest and All that we are, as He has been made to us by God, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, for sin and the Law.

Romans 3:29-31 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Not by keeping the Law, or the Sabbath Day, but by the Faith of the Son of God Himself who is the established Law Keeper, not us by any keeping of any Law.

In Christ; Phillip


 2008/4/27 18:00Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Study

If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?

[b]Rev 11:19[/b] -
A similar solemn conclusion to that of the seventh seal, Rev_8:5, and to that of the seventh vial, Rev_16:18. Thus, it appears, the seven seals, the seven trumpets, and the seven vials, are not consecutive, but parallel, and ending in the same consummation. They present the unfolding of God’s plans for bringing about the grand end under three different aspects, mutually complementing each other.

[b]the temple[/b] — the sanctuary or [i]Holy place[/i] ([i]Greek[/i], “naos”), not the whole [i]temple[/i] ([i]Greek[/i], “hieron”).

[b]opened in heaven[/b] — A and C read the article, “the temple of God “which is” in heaven, was opened.”

[b]the ark of his testament[/b] — or “... His [i]covenant[/i].” As in the first verse the earthly sanctuary was [i]measured[/i], so here its heavenly antitype is laid open, and the antitype above to the [i]ark of the covenant[/i] in the Holiest Place below is seen, the pledge of God’s faithfulness to His covenant in saving His people and punishing their and His enemies. Thus this forms a fit close to the series of trumpet judgments and an introduction to the episode (the twelfth and thirteen chapters) as to His faithfulness to His Church. Here first His secret place, the heavenly sanctuary, is opened for the assurance of His people; and thence proceed His judgments in their behalf (Rev_14:15, Rev_14:17; Rev_15:5; Rev_16:17), which the great company in heaven laud as “true and righteous.” This then is parallel to the scene at the heavenly altar, at the close of the seals and opening of the trumpets (Rev_8:3), and at the close of the episode (the twelfth through fifteenth chapters) and opening of the vials (Rev_15:7, Rev_15:8). See on Rev_12:1, note at the opening of the chapter.



AN'TITYPE[/b], n. [Gr. against, and a type, or pattern.]

A figure corresponding to another figure; that of which the type is the pattern or representation. Thus the paschal lamb, in scripture, is the type of which Christ is the antitype. An antitype then, is something which is formed according to a model or pattern, and bearing strong features of resemblance to it.

In the Greek liturgy, the sacramental bread and wine are called antitypes, that is, figures, similitudes; and the Greek fathers used the word in a like sense.


Types and shadows, analogies, antitypes ...
I am want to say that the whole New Testament is in need of review but at least Hebrews, Romans, Galations, for starters. As contentious and stubborn as some of this has been I must say thanks for sending me back to read a great deal again. But not piecemeal! We have got to get away from this wholesale it seems in many places on this forum. It is evident when we are taking things well of context to prove our ... whatever it is we are trying to prove. Read whole books in their context and circumstances, consult the commentaries of minds more advanced and studied than your own, read through this link and challenge yourself; [url=]How to Get the Most from Reading your Bible[/url]

Mike Balog

 2008/4/27 19:04Profile

Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


Dear brother crsschk,

Thank you for your reply.

Dear brother, I had posted some questions to dear brother RevBenjamin.

But I guess that I will not get an answer from him, so thank you for trying to answer.
However, I cannot see how the text that you posted here answers my question.

I am very aware of type and antitype, I know the definition and what they represent.

I believe that my questions should be very simple to answer.

Please if you have the time could you go back to my questions and answer them individually.

Here they are.

If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?

Thank you...


 2008/4/28 10:44Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The answer is God no longer dwells in the Temple on Earth. The temple is now in men. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". His Glory is no longer in the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem, His Shekinah Glory is no longer on earth and the Mercy Seat was now in Heaven, which is Christ. We are the temple now and all that was in the earthly temple is now in the heavenly Temple, which is Christ In you the Hope of Glory and we are seated with Him already in the Heavenlies.

1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Corinthians 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

The Altar of God is Now the temple of men, Where Christ is, The old things of the Ark of the Covenant are passed away from this earth and are now the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ, show to John in Heaven, This Christ, who lives in the temple of man, that is in believes, and we are seated in the Heavenlies with Him.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Thus we are the temple of God in Christ Jesus, seated in the Heavenlies with Him, which puts the fulfillment of the Law and the covenants in us, which we are witness of, in the heavenly Ark that John saw as a testament that the Ark of the Covenant no longer is on earth, except in the temple of Man who believes and is a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

We are in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus who is not the old Sabbath ritual or the keeping of the old Law, but the New Sabbath and covenant in His Blood, The new power of God in Christ Jesus which works in us mightily.

This is where we are and this is where our Sabbath is.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

The Sabbath is for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.

Ephesians 1:17-22 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

In Who?

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Christ is the fulfillment of the Law in temples not made with hands but by the manifold wisdom of God by the Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Sabbath on earth? Passed away, The Sabbath in the Heavenlies and in the Born Again, is Come.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is He come in your quickened flesh to contain the Very Presence of God in Christ Jesus? He who makes the Sabbath Perfect in us, not a day of Keeping but a 24-7 Sabbath in Christ Jesus, not forsaking the assembling of yourselves as the time grows near. We are in the Sabbath always, but keep to each other and assemble yourselves and "Love one another, even as I have love you and gave myself for you" and given you commandment.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/4/28 14:44Profile

Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


Dear brother Phillip,

Thank you for answering my question, Please allow me to comment on what you said.

Quote:"""The answer is God no longer dwells in the Temple on Earth. The temple is now in men."""

Dear brother your whole answer was about the temple down here on earth. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit for sure. However, the Temple that John saw in heaven, is not the temple down here on earth.

Your answer was based on the earthly temple, and my question was not that.

Revelation clearly says this.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.


Note that it is not talking about the earthly temple.

What John saw was the heavenly temple and the Ark was shown to him.

Now,why was the Ark displayed to John? Just keep in mind that it is talking about the heavenly temple.

Your answer is correct if we are talking about the earthly temple, but we are not talking about it, We are talking about God's temple in Heaven.


Quote:""""The old things of the Ark of the Covenant are passed away from this earth and are now the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ"""""

Dear brother that does not make sense to me at all. You said that the Ark of the covenant is passed away and yet it is being displayed in the Heavenly Temple, and just after John saw it, look what happend.

Revelation 11:19 And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Wow, for something that is passed away or some would say of no value, what happens after it was displayed makes no sense.

But if you think that what is inside of the Ark is the Testimony of God, that would make perfectly sense to have that sort of power displayed after it was shown. By saying that it is the Testimony of God that is inside the Ark, this is what I mean.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Exodus 25:21 "You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

Forgive me for saying this but such a display of power such as the one that John saw after having seen the Ark which you say are old things and passed away, makes no sense at all. For inside of it is not less than the Testimony of the Almighty God.


Quote:"""""The Sabbath is for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.""""""

You are definetely right here dear brother. If the Sabbath is for man then how are you making use of it, by treating what God sanctified like any other day? I do not believe that is what Jesus meant when He said that.

This is what He meant with that.

Matthew 12:5-8 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 "Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Jesus explained that that are certain things done in the Sabbath that does not count as sin. for Instance.

the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

and then Jesus said that right there there was someone much much more important that the Temple, more important than the Sabbath, because He was creator of the Sabbath and therefore, Lord of it as well. Just in case you want to argue who created the Sabbath, here it is.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

According to John, everything that was created in the Beginning, was created through Him, and without Him not would have been created.

Then Jesus openly declared Himself as the creator there by saying that He is the Lord of it all and more important than it all, and yet they failed to recognise that. And He said,

Matthew 12:6-7 "Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.

Not only they fail to recognise that Jesus was more important than anything, therefore Lord of it all but they had already comdemned Him, They thought that the Sabbath commandment was more important than the thou shall not Kill, but we know what James says:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

So, when Jesus said:

The Sabbath was made for men and not men for the Sabbath.

So dear brother, make a righteous judgment and use the Sabbath for the purpose that it was created.


Please read again my questions of the Ark in the heavenly temple and answer them, having in mind the temple of God in heaven and not the temple down here on earth.

God bless you...

 2008/4/29 11:56Profile

Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US


[b]1 timothy 1:8-11[/b]
8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

the word shows us that the law was not made for the righteous man, but for the unrighteous. why?? to show us our sin that we might turn to Christ.

[b]galatians 3:24-25[/b]
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

[b]galatians 3:2-4[/b]
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

[b]romans 4:1-16[/b]
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

[b]galatians 2:21[/b]
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”


 2008/4/29 15:10Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Christ is no longer on earth physically, but He is in you Spiritually, Making Him our lives.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

"Yet not I", but who? "but Christ liveth in me".

The Sabbath is no longer on earth, but in Heaven, as the Ark of the Covenant is also. You yourself ask what was in the Ark? If the Ark contains the commandments and they are Gods and Christ is the only fulfiller of the whole Law, and if He is in us, where is the Sabbath and the Commandments?

They are in us, "but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

This is where our Sabbath is, by Faith, not by works in the Keeping of a Day but the whole spiritual understanding that Christ being the Word is now in us by Faith in Grace.

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Don't worship a corruptible day, but worship the Incorruptable Seed, The Word Himself who is our daily rest and Sabbath and all in all.

Who is the Word? John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Making Him our all in all, that also making Him our Sabbath. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these things will be added unto you."

Don't Seek the Day of The Sabbath, but seek Him, for men by the Cross, that the Day was made for and see our True Sabbath, Jesus Christ our Day Life, for we are in the Light, not in darkness.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/4/30 2:45Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


Elohiym (the Triune God) said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

FOR in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: WHEREFORE the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

If you break this commandment, you are transgressing His law.

The Beast calls the changing of the Sabbath to Sunday, her "MARK" of authority, as in Dan 7:25.

Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8; Mk 2:28; Lu 6:5.

Jesus prophesied the Sabbath being kept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there yet. Mt 24:20. (He, also, said, He was coming after the Tribulation Mt 24:29-31.)

Isaiah prophesied the Sabbath being kept in His coming Kingdom. Isa 66:22,23.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

 2008/5/1 8:50Profile

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