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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Elohiym: Creator

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

This is not teaching others to disregard the Law of Commandments, but to understand they were to show us sin, and lead us to Christ. You cannot be in The Grace of God in Christ Jesus and the Law also, one cancels the other. It is either the Grace of God in Christ Jesus where you will be seated in heavenly places in Him or you will live in the Law and be condemned by it.

"For by Grace are you saved by Grace through faith, and that not of yourselves."

Paul had the same problem with the Judaizers with the Galatians. Just put Sabbath Keepers in the place of the Judiazers and you might understand that the Law will not save you or keep you saved.

Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Promise to Abraham was Christ through his seed Mary and the Seed of God the Father to bring forth His only begotten Son that we might live as son's of God through Him. There is no life in the Sabbath or any other Law, there is only Godly life in Christ Jesus. Live under the Law and have life in the Law, which is death. Live life in Christ and we are already translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.

Paul confronted a group who promoted extra-biblical rules for godliness. The Judaizers of Paul's day taught that faith in Christ was necessary for salvation, but they also taught that obedience to parts of the Mosaic Law, including circumcision, this would also include the seventh day Sabbath, were also necessary. They also taught obedience to the Law was essential for living godly lives. In other words, the Judaizers held that being godly included adhering to an external set of rules. The Christians at Galatia had fallen into this false doctrine. Paul scolded them saying:

YOU foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you. . . This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Gal. 3:2-3). The principle is clear: Just as salvation is totally of the Holy Spirit and the Christ birthed in you and has nothing to do with our own efforts, so too, the living out of the Christian life must be according to the Holy Spirit and not according to fleshly efforts. The way one was saved is the same way one must grow spiritually. Paul would also tell the Galatians, "Walk by the Spirit, and the Life of Christ that is birthed in you and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16). The key to godly living is continual reliance upon and obedience to the Holy Spirit of His teaching of that Christ that is now in us and our only life unto God. Though the Galatians were genuinely saved they wrongly tried to live out their lives in the flesh by keeping the rules and regulations of the Judaizers. The Law.


In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/4/22 21:38Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Sabbath

Strider,

Your heart is not right.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/4/22 23:02Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re: Sabbath

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith,Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven: BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have cast out devils? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? and then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANMNDMENTS.

He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

These are not my words, but His Word.

 2008/4/23 7:51Profile









 Re: mystery of lawlessness

Dear Crssschk

Thank you. I find a few things expressed here to be rather troubling:

--your quote: [i]The first mention of the Sabbath's being kept by anyone is recorded in Exodus 16. It began with Moses and was instituted in the wilderness. To go back of Moses for proof in favor of Saturday keeping is going outside the Bible, into the fogs and mists of speculation and darkness.[/i]

--I have no idea why this is quoted to booster an argument against the LORD's 4th commandment. Dragging up disgruntled ex-whatever's to testify that the Torah was/is a bondage to them, and that now they are 'free', reminds me of the nations raging and conspiring in Psalm 2....."let us cast their bonds asunder".

-----------------------------

--The insistance by most that the Torah (commandments, teachings, instructions of YHVH) are quote: [u]"impossible to keep"[/u].
--This is in direct contradiction to the word of the Almighty God Himself in Deut 30:11-15:

"For this commandment which I command you this day is [b]not too hard for you[/b], neither is it far off.
It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
"See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil."

-----------------------------

--The insistance by most that the Torah is [u]"bondage"[/u].
--This is also in direct contradiction to Scripture. When YHVH gave the Torah to His people, He prefaced it with these words: "I am YHVH, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, [b]out of the house of bondage[/b]. He did not lead them out of bondage to re-enslave them once again under His laws and instructions that He gave for their [b]good[/b].

--"Bondage" in Scripture refers to living a life of selfish rebellion, sinfulness, lawlessness, and opposed to God's law. We must be careful not to call evil what God has called good.
--The Torah is good, holy and just.....NOT a curse. The curse is the [b]punishment[/b] due us for breaking the Torah.

--Our [u]new life in Yeshua Messiah is a life of freedom.[/u] Freedom from the WAGES OF AND ENSLAVEMENT TO SIN.

-- Far from being a blueprint for slavery, bondage and other such notions, the commandments of God illuminate the pathway of a free life - a life free from the debilitating and destructive consequences of sin.
--Real freedom is found only in obedience to God. [u] Lawlessness, or disobedience to God, is sin (1 John 3:4), and it is a form of bondage[/u]. Yeshua said that [u]"whoever commits sin is a slave of sin ... Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed"[/u] (John 8:34, 36).

----------------------------------

--There is an ever present accusation that those who testify to the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments, are trying to quote: [i]bring us back into bondage, or bring us back under the law"[/i].
--Clearly gentiles were [i]never under the law, never cared a bit for the Torah,[/i] and so could not be 'brought back', because they were [b]never[/b] under it. They were under the law of death.........the wages due one for living in rebellion to God.

As the apostle Peter says: "Let the time that is past suffice for doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry. They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead".

--[u]Gentiles were not living in 'bondage' under Torah, but 'living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry", which is anti-Torah, rebellion![/u]
--Gentiles were living in bondage to SIN.
--Rejection of Torah leads to lawlessness, degeneration and ultimately, spiritual death.

-----------------------------

--[u]Consider well the "spirit of lawlessness already at work", that would cause even the elect to be deceived. In 2 Thessalonians 2:7,8 we read: "For the [b]mystery of lawlessness[/b] is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. And then the [b]lawless one[/b] will be revealed..."[/u]

-----------------------------
When Yeshua returns, the Kingdom of God will spread throughout the earth: "Many nations will come and say, [b]'Come and let us go up to the mountain of YHVH, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.' The law will go out from Zion, the word of YHVH from Jerusalem."[/b]

[u]Among those who love the truth, this restoration has already begun[/u].

Paul says in Romans 2:13, "It is the DOERS of the law who will be justified."

----------------------------

....as King David proclaimed, "So I will keep Your Torah continually, forever and ever, and I will walk at [u]liberty,[/u] for I seek Your precepts" (Psalm 119:44-45)
Thank you.
Stephen.

 2008/4/23 8:14
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Quote:
.........Rev, you imply that Yeshua Messiah was negating the teachings of His Father--this is not the case. People had taken this instruction, and twisted it to be used as personal vengeance on others, whereas the original teaching pertained to judicial matters in the camp of Israel. i.e.




Can you explain this? Clearly a judicial matter in the Law. Do you think only the 10 commandments pertain to the Ark? Do you see a mercy seat? Do you see the sprinkling of Blood? Do you understand 'once and for all'?


John 8:3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, [u]Neither do I condemn thee: [/u] go, and sin no more.




Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

You want to know what is inside the Ark?

Please take a look:

[u]10Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. [/u]



R.G. Benjamin

 2008/4/23 8:23Profile









 Re:

Dear RevBenjamin,



[u]"Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?"[/u]

In this they were referring to the ruling of [u]Leviticus 20:10[/u].

Note, that they are very careful not to actually quote the words of the Law, but
rather state it in general terms, ascribing that the law of Moses
commanded that she should be stoned.

When we read the very words of the ruling in Leviticus, we soon
understand [b]why they were not willing[/b] to actually quote the very
wording of the ruling themselves:

[u]Leviticus 20:10[/u] - [b]"The man who commits adultery with another man's
wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer
and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."[/b]

Both should be put to death.

The big question is: Where was the man?

We do not know who he was, and we only have their words about her
adultery to imply that he even existed. They only bring the woman to
Yeshua, for Him to try her. Yet, any good judge would have first asked
for them to bring the other guilty parties, so that the case could be
heard. They must have realised that, and were not concerned with
justice for the woman. And, justice is a serious element of the Law.

So it is obvious, that they were not really interested in the Law,
but rather in [b]catching Yeshua out.[/b] John says as much in V6:

"This they said, [b]testing Him[/b], that they might have something of
which to [b]accuse Him[/b]."


Adultery is sin. If we are going to use Yeshua's teaching we have to use His definition, ...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Mt. 5:28). Yeshua was not justifying adultery in this incident. Neither was he teaching against the Torah of his Father, which clearly teaches that the other guilty party was to be brought to justice too. No one was found, even although she was allegedly 'taken in the act' according to those who accused her. Their duplicity and cunning were exposed!


------------------------------


[u]RevBenjamin asked me[/u]: quote: [i]"Can you explain this? Clearly a judicial matter in the Law. Do you think only the 10 commandments pertain to the Ark? Do you see a mercy seat? Do you see the sprinkling of Blood? Do you understand 'once and for all'?
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
You want to know what is inside the Ark?
Please take a look:
10Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other."[/i]

[u]My answer[/u]: I addressed the adultery incident above. I am not sure why you have posed all those questions. Yes, there is a mercy seat; yes ,there is the sprinkling of Blood; yes, I understand 'once and for all'.

and

[b]Psalm 85:10: "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." is a WONDERFUL promised and truth!!![/b]Amen!


Stephen.




 2008/4/23 9:47
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:


Quote:
Both should be put to death.



Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, [u]and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.[/u]

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Stephen, you have a [i]wrong[/i] answer for everything.

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/4/23 10:07Profile









 Re:

RevBenjamin-



Sorry, that you feel it was the wrong answer, as I was just quoting the Scripture there.

[i]do you have a problem with that?[/i]

added edit:
That comes from Leviticus 20:10 - "The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."


*****I see that you have curiously added the birth of Yeshua to that post. Your original one dealt with the woman taken in adultery......

:-(

 2008/4/23 10:13
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Pounding on a rock

Quote:
--The insistance by most that the Torah is "bondage".
--This is also in direct contradiction to Scripture. When YHVH gave the Torah to His people, He prefaced it with these words: "I am YHVH, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. He did not lead them out of bondage to re-enslave them once again under His laws and instructions that He gave for their good.

--"Bondage" in Scripture refers to living a life of selfish rebellion, sinfulness, lawlessness, and opposed to God's law. We must be careful not to call evil what God has called good.
--The Torah is good, holy and just.....NOT a curse. The curse is the punishment due us for breaking the Torah.




[i] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.[/i] Exo 20:2


(Used for both "Land" and "House")

[b]H4480[/b]
מנּי מנּי מן
min minnîy minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.


Egypt

[b]H4714[/b]
מצרים
mitsrayim
mits-rah'-yim
Dual of H4693; Mitsrajim, that is, Upper and Lower Egypt: - Egypt, Egyptians, Mizraim.

Bondage

[b]H5649[/b]
עבד
‛ăbad
ab-ad'
(Chaldee); from H5648; a servant: - servant.

So bondage in this context refers not to either an insistence that the law is bondage nor to a life of selfish rebellion, etc. The Hebrews were in bondage to Pharaoh, [i]out of the land of Egypt[/i], out of [i]that[/i] house of bondage.

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; [b]the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage[/b], which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.[/i] 4:21-31 Gal

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?[/i] it's a question, not a statement that I am echoing.

A couple of notes on all this in general. The vast majority that come here for spiritual food and nourishment are not looking for a loop hole in the Lords commandments, far from it! So to continue on in this form and manner is to continually prop up a straw-man of your own making to knock back down again. You are not alone in this by any stretch. For all the piercing, spiritual truths afforded all here, to think such a thing is only worsened by this hard line and the twisting of scriptures in a variety of ways to make it all so;

Quote:
--There is an ever present accusation that those who testify to the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments, are trying to quote: bring us back into bondage, or bring us back under the law".
--Clearly gentiles were never under the law, never cared a bit for the Torah, and so could not be 'brought back', because they were never under it. They were under the law of death.........the wages due one for living in rebellion to God.

As the apostle Peter says: "Let the time that is past suffice for doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry. They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead".

--Gentiles were not living in 'bondage' under Torah, but 'living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry", which is anti-Torah, rebellion!
--Gentiles were living in bondage to SIN.
--Rejection of Torah leads to lawlessness, degeneration and ultimately, spiritual death.



Again, are you not strip-mining the context of the scriptures to fit or form your own intentions? This is yet another straw-man whereby you put the onus, and I would say pride of emphasis on yourself and others 'like you' for "[i]the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments[/i] and make anyone and everyone who differs, who may be trying to truly understand just what the law and the covenants and all that was put forth by Paul into the outer realm, that their only concern is one of dodging the commandments.

But it is a bondage and precisely what you are attempting to do. You care not for spiritual truth and spiritual growth for the Brethren but are absorbed with the notions of the Pharisees. The very thing that Jesus constantly challenged and questioned of their hearts you would bring others right back under again. I fully would expect nothing but a rebuttal and another handful of scriptures to be taken either partially or fully out of their context to just continue this agenda, and that is what it is, it is not a discussion because their is no backing off or any consideration or reconsideration. And by the way, both 'sides' here doing much the same by repeating over and over the same scriptures. I am guilty as well.

Mentioned earlier that I did come back to this all again very much unbiased and truthfully I did. That does not mean I did not have some preconceived understanding, bluntly, that I do not believe we are under the same legal obligations now as Israel was when these laws were given to them. But that didn't mean that I still didn't have some questions or was unwilling to try and grapple with them. Some of those questions were my own, as mentioned elsewhere, my thoughts ran towards, "Could I in fact be in disobedience?" I certainly recognize that I very well could be and in practical out-workings actually do practice a day of rest, sometimes two, if one was to be technical about it. One question I would have for those so adamant about all this ...

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

[i]Six days shall work be done ...[/i]

Do you also work six days? Honestly? And what kind of work are we talking about? What qualifies and what does not? In a society based for the better part on a 5 day work week and whether that it is a heathenish\worldly construct or not, how does it work out in practical, real life experience. And how does it justify the commandment for those holding so stringently to it.

From the same article that was so easily and quickly denounced and dismissed;

[i]While Paula and I do not believe the Adventist position, that the Sabbath is morally binding, is biblical, we do believe that it is a healthy way to live and has merit for spiritual growth. We value and support the concept of Sabbath rest. We enjoy the spiritual benefits of taking a day that is dedicated to God and family. We love taking a media fast for a day and letting the noise and clamor cease. This is a part of our spiritual lives that we hold dear and will always treasure. But to insist that it always be on Saturday, or that it is mandated by Scripture, is adding to the Word of God an unnecessary requirement for new believers. It constitutes a stumbling block that is not necessary. It gets in the way of many coming to Jesus. We believe that we should remove all obstacles from the path of the true seeker except the scandal of the cross. This is the heart of the message of Galatians and the rest of the New Testament.[/i]

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Testimonies/Taylor/tabid/66/Default.aspx

What is spurious and curious is how one or two doctrines can be so beaten down or continually emphasized that it makes one wonder what is really going on in the hearts of those who keep championing them. A search here on just this subject matter will present many postings and none of them to my recollection changed anybodies mind, at least in response. They end up going either in circles or nowhere.

This forum is many things but predominantly it is for disciples. Disciples, by definition are "learners". Those of us who come here with a teaching agenda but have no spiritual concerns or the wrong heart and wrong spirit only end up bringing contention and strife. The m.o. behind it all is generally "I don't care" and further is a selfish delusion that "I am doing the Lord's business" or something of that mindset. But it all amounts to next to nothing. No one is really listening to each other or even considering each other. I think that those who come with their agendas are already on the outside looking in if they think they are going to get an ear to what they are bringing.

There is an arrogance, a stubbornness, a prideful obstinance in most if not all of us in some form or fashion that glares over many a subject like this. It overshadows the whole thing ...

[i]Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.[/i] Mat 23:24

I do not know how it can be disputed. How much better would it be for us to take in some more demanding issues of the heart or those of the contrast between soul and spirit, of character, honesty and integrity, of being teachable like the children we are before the Lord Almighty, of being obedient in the heart and the thought life. So many tremendous things, so demanding of us and so prevalent here in a variety of resources, to take those to task and application and then maybe after having absorbed and taken them in, just then maybe we might be more apt and capable of teaching or leading others in subjects that are often in disagreement.







_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/4/23 10:14Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

We can make the scripture say anything when taken out of context used for our own agenda.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Now God has feathers.

Strider wrote:

"Sorry, that you feel it was the wrong answer, as I was just quoting the Scripture there.

do you have a problem with that?"

Yes, when so many are telling you, what you are doing is wrong and what you are leading others into is not the Gospel of Paul in Christ Jesus, but the Gospel of Moses which is old and has passed away and all things have become new in Christ Jesus our Lord, who is now the life of the believer and the reason we are called son's of God.

The works of the Law in man is why Jesus Christ had to go to the Cross, and the reason God the Father put Him their in His Plan before the foundation of the World. Just to get you and me, and take away the sin of the world that condemned every man, no matter how well he kept the Law.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Law and the commandments keep the flesh in the old creature state and condemn all who stay in the Law of the flesh operation. The new is the Law of Christ in the Spirit operation in us, not outside of us as works of the flesh, but works of the Spirit is what changes us from glory to glory by the Spirit of Christ born again in us. The only one that kept the Law perfect is Christ and that is the perfection God demands. The only way we are pleasing to the Father is by this Christ that is born again in us when we believe as Peter did, "Thou art the Son of God", and flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter, but The Father in Heaven. That is our salvation not by the works of the Law.

Ephesians 2:4-13 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is the enmity? The Law, not the covenants and promises. "who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;" You are in the Law of the flesh made with hands, we want you to be in the Law of Spirit in Christ Jesus.

Not keeping the Sabbath to atone for the flesh, but making Christ the Sabbath to live in the Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/23 13:45Profile





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