ejg wrote;


"I must agree here with Psalm1, it is with Wigglesworth's life or any of the other church hx giants, all had to drink from bitter cup. I wanna add that although we are say certain things here and we say it from our mouths, lip service is null-n-void.

We must go down to the dust, we must learn to "roll n sackcloth and ashes", it must become part of our life. All that we say, all that we chirp or make noise about is 100% clinking cymbols and sounding brass to God until we truly submit to the cup. Even with a good heart, yes he knows our heart, but the dust, that is falling to the ground must be a heart matter day after day until we in our own lives/selves can rise no more.

We will come up from the dust newly born, newly driven, new, brand new with life and heart felt burden..Then I believe that life will come.

Now, that is it in theory, but in reality we r to cry and plea and brake b4 HIm and everyone else we r acquainted with.

praises be to God



I agree!!!

David

I want to thank crsschk, Paul West and HmmHmm for their posts on Page 6. Each has spoken to me in different ways and I can relate to various things said by each person.

I thank each of you for your honest and level headed contributions.

In this story Jesus comes as healer and savior;

Wigglesworth recounts the story;


" I asked, "What do you want?" He said, "I wonder if I could ask you to pray for me." I said, "What's the trouble?" He said, "Can't you smell?" The young fellow had gone into sin and was suffering the consequences. He said, "I have been turned out of two hospitals. I am broken out all over. I have abscesses all over me." And I could see that he had a bad breaking out at the nose. He said, "I heard you preach, and could not understand about this healing business, and was wondering if there was any hope for me."

I said to him, "Do you know Jesus?" He did not know the first thing about salvation, but I said to him, "Stand still." I placed my hands on his head and then on his loins and cursed that terrible disease in the name of Jesus. He cried out, "I know I'm healed. I can feel a warmth and a glow all over me." I said, "Who did it?" He said, "Your prayers." I said, "No, it was Jesus!" He said, "Was it He? Oh, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus, save me." And that young man went away healed and saved. Oh, what a merciful God we have! What a wonderful Jesus is ours!

Are you oppressed? Cry out to God. It is always good for people to cry out. You may have to cry out. The Holy Ghost and the Word of God will bring to light every hidden, unclean thing that must be revealed. There is always a place of deliverance when you let God search out that which is spoiling and marring your life. That evil spirit that was in the man in the synagogue cried out, "Let us alone!" It was a singular thing that the evil spirit had never cried out like that until Jesus walked into the place where he was. Jesus rebuked the thing, saying, "Hold thy peace and come out of him," and the man was delivered. He is just the same Jesus, exposing the powers of evil, delivering the captives and letting the oppressed go free, purifying them and cleansing their hearts. Those evil spirits that inhabited the man who had the legion did not want to be sent to the pit to be tormented before their time, and so they cried out to be sent into the swine. Hell is such an awful place that even the demons hate the thought of going there. How much more should men seek to be saved from the pit?

God is compassionate and says, "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found." And He has further stated, "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Seek Him now, call on His name right now, and there is forgiveness, healing, redemption, deliverance, and everything you need for you right here and now, and that which will satisfy you throughout eternity.


David

Hi David,

Must mention a couple of things but first wanted to draw from the archives a couple of previous related postings;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14851&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]power of the word of God - wigglesworth[/url]

Another with even more corresponding links;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=21842&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Smith Wigglesworth[/url]

And where I now recall drawing off the aspect of 'enigma';

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=11557&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Enigma of William M Branham[/url] [i]By Andrew Strom[/i]

David, wanted to thank you for drawing these clips of Wigglesworth out as you have done because of the challenge they present. Certainly the balance and the staying off of extremisms has it points, but it also can have it's perils ... Maybe the best analogy I could present is something I recall Zac Poonen mentioning when he preached nearby last year. His message(s) was on "What Jesus Taught About Money". And at one point he was discussing and drawing from George Mueller, how he never asked for money and yet was always supplied for the work he did in the orphanages, for all things. He prayed, believed and trusted God for everything and was never disappointed. It would take the whole of the context of what Zac was discussing and this is just a bit of a paraphrase but his honesty came through when he said; "[i]I do not have the faith of a George Mueller[/i]". That was endearing in it's forth coming and Zac is no slouch in faith or trust, just sheer honesty.

Don't want to get bogged down in the attributes of ...

[i]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.[/i] Rom 12:3

As true as it all is ... The challenge is in that, why do I not have more faith ... period? Not to measure by these great men of God but to draw off of them as examples, of the possibilities of faith, even to hear the redounding sound of the Lord;

"[i]Ye of little faith ... Why are ye fearful? ... why reason ye among yourselves ... If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? ... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?[/i]"

It's the littleness of, it's often the quick to dispel matters due to unbelief, to override or maybe apply too much caution rather than too little, one thing to be aware and not gullible, accepting everything without test or scriptural warrant and quite another to ...

[i]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.[/i] Mar 9:24

To mirror Zac's sentiment, I do not have the faith of George Mueller nor that of Smith Wigglesworth ... far too often. And so I am challenged ...

Why not?

_________________
Mike Balog

Up until three years ago I was not saved and into that Word of Faith heresy. Of course I thought i was saved. How scary eh?

During the last couple of years of my Word of faith adventure, I was looking to teach that stuff and I'll tell you I was vey sincere and loved the Lord, but really didn't understand the atonement and a true salvation message. You may say I truly didn't love the lord, but I really wanted to etc.

Now I said all that to comment on this thread: In my last two years of Word of Faith (3-5 years ago), Because i wanted to teach the stuff I thought an understanding of healing with results would make me (self centered) appear to others to have greater faith. In Word of Faith, the more results you get the higher your faith is. As an unsaved guy, I read Wigglesworth's books dozens of times and hundreds of hours of John G. Lakes sermons.

I read this stuff SO MUCH. I used to 'Feel' more spiritual while reading these guys. In fact i used some of Wigglesworths exact quotes to support my gambling problem. These guys contain zero salvation message and very little and most of the time nothing about holiness. They can draw the unsaved in for sure. Fallen man is always self centered.

I wanted to share that.

Do I read these guys today? Absolutely, but with an entirely different perspective. Many today that preach a strong holiness message are cessenist or minimize the gifts of the Spirit or ministering healing to an extreme. Preaching the cross of Jesus Christ is the key. It is not scriptual to abandon healing and deliverence though as some do.

I peronally like John G. lake better and I think some of his sermons are are a tremendous mix with studying the revivalist and shift over a bit more balance with a holiness and salvation message.

I do love the writings of these guys, but now I read them with true love for my Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Bless

Robert

_________________
Robert

wigglesworth exhorting the brethren;


"Oh, this wonderful Jesus of ours! He comes and indwells us. He comes to abide. He it is who baptizes us with the Holy Ghost, and makes everything different. We are to be a kind of firstfruits unto God and are to be like Christ who is the firstfruit, walking in His footsteps, living in His power. What a salvation this is, having this risen Christ in us. I feel that everything else must go to nothingness, helplessness and ruin. Every thought of advantage for ourselves must be on the decrease in order that Christ may increase, that we may live in another state, where all things are under the power of the Spirit.

Dare you take your inheritance from God? Dare you believe God ? Dare you stand on the record of His Word? What is the record? If thou shalt believe thou shalt see the glory of God. You will be sifted as wheat. You will be tried as though some strange thing tried you. You will be put in places where you will have to put your whole trust in God. There is no such thing as anyone being tried beyond what God will allow. There is no temptation that will come, but God will be with you right in the temptation to deliver you, and when you have been tried, He will bring you forth as gold. Every trial is to bring you to a greater position in God. The trial that tries your faith will take you on to the place where you will know that the faith of God will be forthcoming in the next test. No man is able to win any victory save through the power of the risen Christ within him. You will never be able to say, "I did this or that." You will desire to give God the glory for everything.



David

Thank you Mike,
God bless you too brother!
Amen to those links and I was blessed by Paul West's Post;

" Re: power of the word of God - wigglesworth
I haven't seen Wigglesworth in these forums in a long, long time. Oh, this is so timely, brother. I don't know of any other preacher in modern history who had a more wonderful balance of purity and power. He lived to be 87 and till the very end he maintained a humble, holy life and remained utterly sold out to God. There is such a childlike purity in his teachings that always astounds me. A man must walk very close to God to have this simplicity! "


Amen Paul!!!



David

I studied Brothter Branham's life about 10 years ago, this man lived an anointed and blessed life, and I guess it could possibly be compared to such obedience and blessing of King Uzziah.

God loved him, and he was obedient to the Prophet Isaiah and unto God through Isaiah, but he was not to think that he could operate under the office or in the office of High priest, he did, he was lifted up in his pride and he was struck with leprosy and died shortly thereafter, and it totally grieved Isaiah, and we all i believe know what Isaiah said after that, " I saw the Lord high and lifted up and his trained filled the temple". shekinah glory brought Isaiah down to I believe was this understanding,

I am God and beside me there is none other......


Blessings bro

Healing salvation,the word,Jesus,......
What a combination!!!

"The Word can drive every disease away from your body. It is your portion in Christ, Him who is our bread, our life, our health, our all in all. Arid though you may be deep in sin, you can come to Him °n repentance, and He will forgive and cleanse and heal you. His words are spirit and life to those who will receive them. There is a promise in the last verse in Joel, "I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed." This is as much as to say He will provide new life within. The life of Jesus Christ, God's Son, can so purify men's hearts and minds that they become entirely transformed, spirit, soul and body.


David

David, please read ALL of Joel.

I believe you or whom ever have taken Joel 3:21 out of context.

Here, please consider this: Start with te verses that precede Joel 21.......

Joel 3: 16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.



Joel 3:21


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion.
King James Bible


For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

Avenge Avenged Blood Cleanse Cleansed Clear Declare Declared Dwelleth Dwelling Dwells Guilty Held Hold Innocent Pardon Pardoned Punishment Purge Purged Zion

Avenge Avenged Blood Bloodguilt Cleanse Cleansed Clear Declare Declared Dwelleth Dwelling Dwells Guilty Held Hold Innocent Pardon Pardoned Punishment Purge Purged Zion

Avenge Avenged Blood Bloodguilt Cleanse Cleansed Clear Declare Declared Dwelleth Dwelling Dwells Guilty Held Hold Innocent Pardon Pardoned Punishment Purge Purged Zion

World English Bible
I will cleanse their blood, that I have not cleansed: for Yahweh dwells in Zion."


American King James Version
For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwells in Zion.


American Standard Version
And I will cleanse their blood, that I have not cleansed: for Jehovah dwelleth in Zion.


Bible in Basic English
And I will send punishment for their blood, for which punishment has not been sent, for the Lord is living in Zion.


Douay-Rheims Bible
And I will cleanse their blood which I had not cleansed: and the Lord will dwell in Sion.


Darby Bible Translation
And I will purge them from the blood from which I had not purged them: for Jehovah dwelleth in Zion.


English Revised Version
And I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I will punish those who murder." The LORD lives in Zion!


Jewish Publication Society Tanakh
And I will hold as innocent their blood that I have not held as innocent; and the LORD dwelleth in Zion.


Webster's Bible Translation
For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.


Young's Literal Translation
And I have declared their blood innocent, That I did not declare innocent, And Jehovah is dwelling in Zion!


Now Here are some compatable scriptures:

Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and purged the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning, (NASB ©1995)

For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.
will. Isa 4:4 Eze 36:25,29 Mt 27:25
for the Lord. or, even I the Lord that. 17 Eze 48:35 Re 21:3


CONCLUDING REMARKS ON THE BOOK OF JOEL.
It is generally supposed, that the prophet Joel blends two subjects of affliction in one general consideration, or beautiful allegory; and that, under the devastation to be produced by locusts in the vegetable world, he portrays the more distant calamities to be inflicted by the armies of the Chaldeans in their invasion of Judea.

These predictions are followed by a more general denunciation of God's vengeance, delivered in such language as to be in some measure descriptive of the final judgment of mankind.

The prophet intermingles these declarations with earnest exhortations to repentance, and with promises of returning prosperity productive of Gospel blessings; foretelling, in the clearest terms, the general effusion of the Holy Spirit under the Christian dispensation, and the awful consequences of obstinately rejecting the sacred influence, especially to the Jews. The state of this nation at the present day, fully attests the Divine inspiration of the prophecy.


Wesley's Notes
3:21 And I will cleanse - Purge away both by the spirit of sanctification and by free pardon in the blood of the redeemer. Their blood - Their sinfulness, which before I had not taken away.
King James Translators' Notes
for the...: or, even I the LORD that
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
21. cleanse . blood . not cleansed-I will purge away from Judah the extreme guilt (represented by "blood," the shedding of which was the climax of her sin, Isa 1:15) which was for long not purged away, but visited with judgments (Isa 4:4). Messiah saves from guilt, in order to save from punishment (Mt 1:21).


David, this verse in Joel 3:21 does not promise divine perfect health.

This link may help in learning to how to rightly divide the Word of Truth. We just can't take scripture out of context.


http://withchrist.org/MJS/snatchers.htm

Katy

PS: David Jesus didn't come to CLEANSE [u]our[/u]

blood, His blood was SHED for the forgivness of sin. We are Justified by HIS BLOOD.

You don't believe we all got a blood transfusion do you?