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psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

wigglesworth on revelation,

"To another the word of knowledge, by the same Spirit; to another faith, by the same Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:8, 9).

We have not passed this way hitherto. I believe that Satan has many devices and that they are worse today than ever before; but I also believe that there is to be a full manifestation on the earth of the power and glory of God to defeat every device of Satan.

In Ephesians 4 we are told to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, for there is one body, and one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all. The Baptism of the Spirit is to make us all one. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 12:13 that by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. It is God's thought that we speak the same thing. If we all have the full revelation of the Spirit of God we shall all see the same thing. Paul asked these Corinthians, "Is Christ divided?" When the Holy Ghost has full control, Christ is never divided, His body is not divided, there is no division. Schism and division are the products of the carnal mind.

How important it is that we shall have the manifestation of "the word of knowledge" in our midst. It is the same Spirit who brings forth the word of wisdom that brings forth the word of knowledge. The revelation of the mysteries of God comes by the Spirit, and we must have a supernatural word of knowledge in order to convey to others the things which the Spirit of God has revealed. The Spirit of God reveals Christ in all His wonderful fullness, and He shows Him to us from the beginning to the end of the Scriptures. It is the Scriptures that make us wise unto salvation, that open to us the depths of the kingdom of heaven, which reveal all the divine mind to us.

There are thousands of people who read and study the Word of God. But it is not quickened to them. The Bible is a dead letter except by the Spirit. The Word of God can never be vital and powerful in us except by the Spirit. The words that Christ spoke were not just dead words but they were spirit and life. And so it is the thought of God that a living word, a word of truth, the word of God, a supernatural word of knowledge, shall come forth from us through the power of the Spirit of God. It is the Holy Ghost who will bring forth utterances from our lips and a divine revelation of all the mind of God.




David

 2008/4/12 11:40Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

wigglesworth ;

"One day when I came home from our open-air meeting at eleven o'clock I found that my wife was out. I asked, "Where is she?" I was told that she was down at Mitchell's. I had seen Mitchell that day and knew that he was at the point of death. I knew that it was impossible for him to survive the day unless the Lord undertook.

There are many who let down in sickness and do not take hold of the life of the Lord Jesus Christ that is provided for them. I was taken to see a woman who was dying and said to her, "How are things with you?" She answered, "I have faith, I believe." I said, "You know that you have not faith, you know that you are dying. It is not faith that you have, it is language." There is a difference between language and faith. I saw that she was in the hands of the devil. There was no possibility of life until he was removed from the premises. I hate the devil, and I laid hold of the woman and shouted, "Come out, you devil of death. I command you to come out in the name of Jesus." In one minute she stood on her feet in victory.

But to return to the case of Brother Mitchell, I hurried down to the house, and as I got near I heard terrible screams. I knew that something had happened. I passed Mrs. Mitchell on the staircase and asked, "What is up?" She replied, "He is gone! He is gone!" I just passed her and went into the room, and immediately I saw that Mitchell had gone. I could not understand it, but I began to pray. My wife was always afraid that I would go too far, and she laid hold of ma and said, "Don't, Dad! Don't you see that he is dead?" I continued to pray and my wife continued to cry out to me, "Don't, Dad. Don't you see that he is dead?" But I continued praying. I got as far as I could with my own faith, and then God laid hold of me. Oh, it was such a laying hold that I could believe for anything. The faith of the Lord Jesus laid hold of me and a solid peace came into my heart. I shouted, "He lives! He lives! He lives!" And he is living today. There is a difference between our faith and the faith of the Lord Jesus. The faith of the Lord Jesus is needed. We must change faith from time to time. Your faith may get to a place where it wavers. The faith of Christ never wavers. When you have that faith the thing is finished. When you have that faith you will never look at things as they are, you will see the things of nature give way to the things of the Spirit, you will see the temporal swallowed up in the eternal."


David

 2008/4/12 22:58Profile









 Re: Was Wigglesworth serious?



Wigglesworth said

Quote:
The Baptism of the Spirit is to make us all one. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 12:13 that by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. It is God's thought that we speak the same thing. If we all have the full revelation of the Spirit of God we shall all see the same thing.

Reading this did something in my spirit. Thank you again for taking the time to post these extracts. They have confirmed much of how I have come to understand these things, and this quote in particular, will, I hope, do a fresh work in me.

 2008/4/12 23:32
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Quote:
There is a difference between our faith and the faith of the Lord Jesus. The faith of the Lord Jesus is needed. We must change faith from time to time. Your faith may get to a place where it wavers. The faith of Christ never wavers. When you have that faith the thing is finished. When you have that faith you will never look at things as they are, you will see the things of nature give way to the things of the Spirit, you will see the temporal swallowed up in the eternal."




This is an excellent comment. As a stand alone statement it is wonderful.


I am somewhat uncomfortable with this being the conclusion of bringing someone back from the dead.

Having read Smith Wigglesworth on many occasions, I have many times been left with deep truths used in the wrong context of the subject matter most often he tried to convey.

We see in this story Mrs. Wigglesworth is still alive. We also see in this story Smith coming to his great conclusion that it is not his own faith but the faith of Christ breaking way to victory in our understanding of eternal matters, not temporal matters. Again, I say AMEN.

We shall also see that with Smith Wigglesworth's deep understanding, he could not raise his own wife or son with his own faith or the faith of Christ.

I do believe when we have this faith that gives way...or breaks away from the temporal to the eternal, we must conclude, put in proper perspective, it is not the eternal that breaks way to the temporal. So, I find here a contradiction in Smith Wigglesworth's conclusion of this particular incident if he is saying this is the secret of bringing about God’s will here on earth. One must conclude it is not always God’s will in the temporal to bring someone back from the dead, as Mr. Wigglesworth not only could not raise his own wife, nor his own son.

The real conclusion Smith Wigglesworth should have ended here is this, What was God’s will in the matter?

Blessings to you,

R.G. Benjamin







 2008/4/13 12:19Profile









 Re: Was Wigglesworth serious?


Hello RevBenjamin,

I don't know if you're familiar with the convention that a doctor should not be expected to treat his own family, for fear of his judgment being unsound, due to emotional involvement with the patients?

As I read your post, it seems this is the most likely consideration, regarding Smith's own family, whereas in the man he raised from the dead, (Mitchell), he [i]was[/i] completely ckear of God's will in the matter, and there was nothing wrong with his heart or doctrine in any of the cases.


 2008/4/13 13:59
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Quote:
I don't know if you're familiar with the convention that a doctor should not be expected to treat his own family, for fear of his judgment being unsound, due to emotional involvement with the patients?



Hello Dorcas,

We pray according to God's will, not our emotional involvement. God answers prayer according to His will, not according to our emotional involvement.

As a father, and husband, I pray for my family God has entrusted to me. Has he not placed me as head of my household?

To say my prayers will not be answered because I am emotionally involved with my family is nowhere to be found in the written word.

I must conclude from your analysis, praying for one's family would or could end in malpractice, therefore the burden of my families needs must be administered by someone who is not emotionally involved?

Is teaching not also a gift of the Spirit, as is the gift of healing? Are we to conclude then, we only teach those we are not emotionally involved with due to malpractice?

If I should pray for my own health and am told my faith is the key to what I receive, am I not also emotionally involved? Faith under any circumstance, does not work from our emotions.

God works all things together for good according to His will. If we pray according to His will, He hears and answers.

Quote:
As I read your post, it seems this is the most likely consideration, regarding Smith's own family, whereas in the man he raised from the dead, (Mitchell), he was completely ckear of God's will in the matter, and there was nothing wrong with his heart or doctrine in any of the cases.



I am totally confused here. Would you elaborate more fully? Possibly give an example out of scripture that I may understand. Do you mean "clear in" God's will or "clear of" God's will?

If you mean to say "clear in" God's will, are you also saying God will is dependent on our being in the right place at the right time? Could God have worked His will through someone else? Was God's will dependent on Smith Wigglesworth faith?

In conclusion, it was either not God's will for Smith Wigglesworth's wife and child to be healed and restored to life, or there was no one around at these times, being unemotionally involved, had a faith God had to depend on in order for His will to be done. This is not how My God works.


Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/4/13 17:30Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Wigglesworth, on that wonderful name;

"Scripture Reading-Acts 3:1-16

All things are possible through the name of Jesus. God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. There is power to overcome everything in the world through the name of Jesus. I am looking forward to a wonderful union through the name of Jesus. There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I want to instill into you a sense of the power, the virtue and the glory of that name. Six people went into the house of a sick man to pray for him. He was an Episcopalian vicar, and lay in his bed utterly helpless, without even strength to help himself. He had read a little tract about healing and had heard about people praying for the sick, and sent for these friends, who, he thought, could pray the prayer of faith. He was anointed according to James 5:14, but, because he had no immediate manifestation of healing, he wept bitterly. The six people walked out of the room, somewhat crestfallen to see the man lying there in an unchanged condition.

When they were outside, one of the six said, "There is one thing we might have done. I wish you would all go back with me and try it." They went back and all got together in a group. This brother said, "Let us whisper the name of Jesus." At first when they whispered this worthy name nothing seemed to happen. But as they continued to whisper, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!" the power began to fall. As they saw that God was beginning to work, their faith and joy increased; and they whispered the name louder and louder. As they did so the man arose from his bed and dressed himself. The secret was just thus, those six people had gotten their eyes off the sick man, and they were just taken up with the Lord Jesus Himself, and their faith grasped the power that there is in His name. O, if people would only appreciate the power that there is in this name, there is no telling what would happen.



David

 2008/4/13 22:54Profile









 Re: Was Wigglesworth serious?



Hi RevBenjamin,

It seems I left a few gaps in my thesis! Let me clarify while still trying to keep this simple.

Of course, love and compassion are essential ingredients in the prayer of faith - for whomever - and most especially for one's own family in the ordinary run of living. But your original post picked up the quote where Wigglesworth mentions changing faith - from his faith to God's faith.

I was suggesting, with regard to his wife and son, that no matter how much [u]he[/u] loved them, and believed with [u]his[/u] own faith for their being raised from the dead, [u]if[/u] God did not supply [u]His[/u] faith, they could not be raised. And, being so [i]desirous[/i] of God's faith and loving so much as a man, that God did not rush in with [i]His[/i] faith to make up the difference (lack on Smith's part), may not have been an option Wigglesworth was able to consider at the time he was praying, until it became clear that God was not backing him up.

This is not even a criticism of Wigglesworth, who understood that unless he prayed into a situation, God was immobilised from acting. He simply [i]had[/i] to pray for his family - regardless of whether it was God's will to raise them or not... He found out God's will, by default.

Here is the scripture which accords with Smith's hope they would be raised.

[color=6633FF]Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

(Acts 26:8
Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?)[/color]


I hope this focus helps you see the single point I was trying to make.

In every case, I believe we should pray according to and only according to, God's will. Are we always clear in our [u]minds[/u] before we start to pray? Not every time. Praying in the Spirit will inform us of His will as we receive the word, and pray it into the situation at hand. But [i]after[/i] we have prayed, and do [u]know[/u] His will, we expect Him to do it, as He has given us to ask.


 2008/4/14 6:45
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Quote:
I was suggesting, with regard to his wife and son, that no matter how much he loved them, and believed with his own faith for their being raised from the dead, if God did not supply His faith, they could not be raised.





If God has faith, then who or what does God have faith in? To say that He has faith in Himself is a non-sense statement. Faith, by definition, requires that a being place trust in something outside of itself, and faith is only as good as the object that you place it in. So, if God has faith, what object outside of Himself is He placing His faith in? Is this object good? If it is good, then why isn't it God? So, I think we could say that if God has faith, then He really isn't God. His Deity is undermined.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/4/14 9:49Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Romans 12:3 (King James Version)


3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Mark 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mark


David


 2008/4/14 10:27Profile





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