Poster | Thread | psalm1 Member

Joined: 2007/1/30 Posts: 1230
| Re: | | Katy said;
I do hope you find YOUR ministry David and don't spend your whole life drooling over someone elses...God may have something different for you....
And I thought that stuff on my shirt was sweat!
David |
| 2008/4/3 21:06 | Profile |
| Re: | | David, and Linn, Thank you so much for your PM's. I really appreciate your genuine love and encouragement. Now that's what I call real Christianity in action.
God created us as unique and individual, with differing gifts, yet all one body.
I believe if we are to covet any of these gifts, Paul said to covet the gift of Prophecy...upholding the truth, proclaiming the truth, reiterating the truth. The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
David, when I think about signs and wonders and miracles, I'm reminded that there were many signs and wonders and miracles when Israel was in the wilderness....yet, with all that, none of those who saw these signs wonders and miracles entered the promise land. They didn't just see them, but partook of them...yet, whined, and complained still more and more
and
..they all died in their sins in the wilderness.
Except those 20 and under who probably didnt see but a tenth if they could even remember any of them at all. Once they got to the border to enter in, there was no need for signs wonders and miracles
the Land was right before them.
Then I am reminded of all the signs wonders and miracles Jesus did, yet...look what happened to Him!!! He wasnt just a mere man as Smith Wigglesworth, or the Apostles, but God Himself
yet did Israel believe?
Out of all those, only 120 were in the upper room.
Only the preaching of the CROSS is the POWER unto Salvation. To those who parish it's foolishness, but to us who are saved IT IS the Power of God, Preaching Christ Crucified, and Risen.
Paul also said, God forbid that I would preach anything but Christ and Him Crucified. I dont think Paul and the Apostles preached Signs Wonders and Miracles, but the signs wonders and miracles were manifest to authenticate their Apostleship to proclaim Christ Crucified and risen.
Well, time for bed.
God Bless! Katy
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| 2008/4/3 23:39 | | crsschk Member

Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 9192 Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Regret | | Katy,
I owe you an apology. I meant what I said but do not believe I said what I meant. It certainly made sense this morning but as the day wore on ...
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The man of God should know when it is appropriate to voice his concerns and he should know when to keep silent. He must be able to discern the listening crowd and gauge how effectively his convictions will be interpreted. It could be that his convictions are truly of God, mature and accurate, but to share them at that moment would be placing them out of season, and hence, unsalted (no pun intended). This is normally when the backbiting starts, and the flesh moves. We see it in these forums a lot.
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22899&forum=34]An Open Public Confession by Patrick Ersig[/url]
Paul West stated here better than I could and where I erred. Had gone back and begun to delete the post but hesitated to cancel it. It is something that we do not really approve of, removing posts, for the most part preferable to leave them be and make corrections. I find it regrettable in a mixed sort of way. It was poorly handled.
If it was up to me, I am denying your request, but asking you to accept mine, forgive me. _________________ Mike Balog
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| 2008/4/3 23:49 | Profile |
| Re: | | Good Morning Mike,
Quote:
The man of God should know when it is appropriate to voice his concerns and he should know when to keep silent. He must be able to discern the listening crowd and gauge how effectively his convictions will be interpreted. It could be that his convictions are truly of God, mature and accurate, but to share them at that moment would be placing them out of season, and hence, unsalted (no pun intended). This is normally when the backbiting starts, and the flesh moves. We see it in these forums a lot.
Although there may be some truth in this comment, I'm not sure there was any backbiting going on here until Julian popped in, having never participated in the discussion to begin with.
What hurt me the most Mike, If I may be honest, on another thread I was on, I made a comment that some of the comments were ridiculous. PaulWest graciously rebuked me, without ripping me apart, stuck to the issue at hand, never once drug up his personal feelings. I of coarse apologized, as he was correct in point out a specific. Not pointing out to any extreme of disparaging me through character assassination.
If you are to be a fair and just Moderator, you would have seen Julian as the character assassinator who's comments introduced ..or possibly wanted to, a spirit of contention that was never here before that moment. The above comment in quotes would certainly apply to Julian.....yet where is his rebuke?
Julian hates that I believe in OSAS...having nothing to do with this subject...and privately PM'd me again with his abusiveness. Again, broken SI rules.
The problem I need assurance on here Mike is this......just because someone doesn't like a person's personal conviction ((based on Scripture)), is that person fair game, when they are involved in any subject...for another to intrude with this kind of behavior, with a drive by, hit and run, without consequence?
People are going to be more inclined to receive FAIR and JUST rebuke, when they see that the rules apply to all, not just to some.
Favoritism causes contention....Parents who favor one child over another...or a teacher who show favortism to some over others, is why their authority looses respect. Oh, they may still have the authority....but respect???
I would also like to say Mike, I have more than once apologized to others for things I have said and done. I have taken rebuke. Maybe you missed those posts. So those things I have already settled and apologized for are as far as the East is from the West....
When I stumble and fall, does God bring up everything I've confessed and have been forgiven for again and again? He does not.
Mike of coarse I forgive you, and ask you to accept my apology and forgive me too. Now with that, once we have forgiven, we never never bring it up again. As far as the East is from the West. ;-)
Love in Christ Katy
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| 2008/4/4 8:51 | | PaulWest Member

Joined: 2006/6/28 Posts: 3405 Dallas, Texas
| Re: | | Dear brethren,
Just for the record, I didn't write the paragraph about "backbiting" with this particular thread in mind or with Katy in mind; it was just a general, unrelated comment about what can readily happen in these forums when people speak unsavory words and out of turn. And I think Mike understood it as such. It's good that all this is coming to air now. Many issues and contentions in these forums can be easily remedied and prevented if we'd just [i]gird up the loins of our minds[/i] and post hesitatingly, and with much discretion.
The truth is that the majority of my posts are deleted even before they see light in this public medium. I can't tell you how many times I've had to click "cancel post" after typing out a good rebuke or some bit of flashy wit or educated drivel - and the posts that [i]do[/i] manage make it in are, even then, more often than not irretrievably regretted. The principle I seek therefore is to submit less but with a higher quality. We should discipline ourselves to post sparingly, as if each post of ours were like a gold coin, something of ourselves that we toss into a public well and which can never again be retrieved and put back in the pocket. The indiscreet person empties his or her pockets before all, and this usually amounts to great shame afterwards. How many brothers and sisters here wish they could go back into the archives and zap a few embarassing posts, get some [i]unminted[/i] gold coins back to set in the furnace a bit longer?
I know I would...
Sorry to divert your thread, David. Back to the discussion.
_________________ Paul Frederick West
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| 2008/4/4 9:12 | Profile | ANewInHim Member

Joined: 2005/12/16 Posts: 54
| Re: | | John Alexander Dowie
Dowie was an apostle who didnt have the complete understanding of that office. The anointing he carried pierced the religious theocracies of his day, but there were few who understood him, including himself. As a result, he misunderstood several administrations that came with the passion of his office. One passion was in the area of politics.
Dowies leadership was gaining a strong national influence. So seeing his potential and knowing his stand, the Temerance Society asked him to run for Parliament. At first, he opposed the idea. But he later changed his mind, thinking he could possibly influence more in the political arena and decided to enter the race.
But Dowie suffered a sound defeat in the elections. The local newspapers that had been so damaged by his ministry waged an all-out attack against him. The politicians and alcoholic beverage industry paid untold amounts of money to see him slandered and defeated. After the election, Dowie had wounded his church, and disgraced his ministry.
Dowie was moved by such strong spiritual yearnings that the sought to fulfill them in the natural. I can only speculate why he made this move. It could have been because the church world wasnt grasping the truth fast enough to satisfy him. Whatever his reason, he misread the timing and plan of God for his ministry.
We need to understand that God has a central point from which every aspect of our lives operate, whether individually or corporately. That area is called timing. From the operation of that one word, lives can move forward with God or be hindered. Nations can advance spiritually, or regress. Life in the spirit realm has timing to it just as life in the natural. Therefore, it is vitally important for us to follow the leading or our spirit. We must lean that its not always right to move into action because it seems like the thing to do. This kind of obedience only comes from season of prayer and intercession.
Politicians and the political arena have never changed the world, church wise or governments-wise. Only a people whose hearts are changed by the Gospel can transform civil laws and regulations. Politics are meant for compromise to please people as a whole. The apostolic office presents the Word of the Lord, and then it is up to the people to conform to and follow it. The apostolic and political dont mix. Dowie with his calling, should have never resorted to a political lifestyle.
While campaigning for office, Dowie also neglected his commandment to preach divine healing. He simply steered away from his calling to pursue a personal goal, thinking he could reach a greater mass of people. And as a result, the rest of his time in Australia was spent in darkness and futility.
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Smith Wigglesworth
Seeking God with all his heart to experience this baptism in the Holy Spirit, Smith went to a local Salvation Army building to pray. Three times he was struck to the floor by the power of God. The Salvationists warned him against speaking in tongues, but Smith was determined to know God in this realm. Four days he sought the Lord expecting to speak in other tongues, but to no avail. Finally, discouraged in his spirit, he felt it was time to return to Bradford. But before his departure, he went to the parsonage to tell the vicars wife, Mrs. Boddy, good-bye. He told her that he had to go home and didnt get to speak in tongues. She answered, It is not the tongues you need, but the baptism. Smith asked her to lay hands on him before he left. She prayed a simple but powerful prayer, and then left the room. It was then that the fire fell. Bathed in the power and glory of the Lord, Smith saw a vision of the empty cross with Jesus exalted at the right hand of the Father. Filled with worship and praise, Smith opened his mouth and began to speak in other tongues, finally realizing that even though he had received an anointing earlier, he was now baptized in the Holy Spirit as one the day of Pentecost.
Instead of going home, Smith went straight to the church where Rev Boddy was conducting the service. Interrupting, he begged to speak for a moment. When he finished his sermon fifty people were gloriously baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with other tongues. The local newspaper, the Sunderland Daily Echo, headlined the meeting, giving detailed accounts of Smiths experience, including the tongues and the healings. He telegraphed his home, telling them of the great news.
Another Secret
Smith Wigglesworth was a man greatly moved by compassion. As he received prayer requests from all over the world he would cry out to God and weep on their behalf. Many times, as he ministered to the afflicted, tears ran down his cheeks. He was also very tender with children and the elderly. In his services, when the heat became stifling, he felt great compassion and would call for the babies and the elderly to be prayed for first.
Demonstrating the truths in Acts 19:11-12, thousands upon thousands were healed by Smith prayer and sent handkerchiefs to those he couldnt visit. An intimate friend spoke of the sincerity and compassion portrayed by Smith, saying, When
the time for the opening of the letters came, we all had to stop whatever we were doing and get under the burden. There was nothing rushed or slipshod about his methods
. Everybody in the house must join in the prayers and lay hands on the handkerchiefs sent out to the suffering ones. They were treated as though the writers were present in person.
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Aimee Semple McPherson
While Aimee was in Baltimore a national healing campaign began. Incredible and highly unusual miracles occurred. The headlines screamed the results of each meeting.
It has been said that when Aimee would enter the hall before a meeting, there were often throngs of desperately ill people seeking to touch her. And that when she saw them, she would run back overwhelmed into her dressing room to pray for Gods help.
Everywhere Aimee went, crowds pressed in to touch her. She would watch in regret as the police were forced to bolt the doors in trying to protect her.
After a while, when she closed her eyes at night, all she could see was the seventeen hundred people who were packed into a place that was built to hold a thousands. She would see the alters and basements overflowing with the sick and would wake up thinking of how Jesus had dealt with al this.
Robert traveled extensively, but corresponded regularly with Aimee throughout the winter. Then in the early spring of 1908, Robert returned to Ingersoll and proposed to her. In fact, he proposed to Aimee in the same house in which she received the baptism a few months earlier. Six months later on August 12, 1908, Aimee married Robert in her familys farmhouse near Salford, Ontario.
Aimee would not finish high school because of her love for Semple. In fact, she left behind everything in order to love, honor, and obey her new husband. Robert was all she needed for a fulfilled and enriching life.
HE WAS MY THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, she would later write, my spiritual mentor, and my tender, patient, unfailing lover.
Before their marriages, Aimee and Robert had convinced her parents that speaking in other tongues was scriptural. But it took much more to convince Minnie of Gods will concerning the couples call to China.
In preparation for their trip, Robert worked in a factory by day and preached by night. Soon, his ministry took them to London, Ontario, where they ministered in homes.
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Kathryn Kuhlmn
The moment Kathryn saw in Gods Word that healing was provided for the believer at the same as salvation, she began to understand the Christians relationship with the Holy Spirit. In 1947 she began teaching a series on the Holy Spirit. Some of the things she said during the first night of her teaching were revelations even to her. Later she spoke of being awake all that night, praying and reading more in the Word.
The second night of her meeting was a momentous occasion. A unique testimony had been given by someone who was healed in a Kathryn Kuhlman meeting. A women stood up and told of having been healed while Kathryn preached the night before. Without anyone laying hands on her and without Kathryn even being aware of what was happening, this women was healed of a tumor. The women had gone to her doctor to confirm her healing before the evening service.
In 1950, a worldwide ministry began to develop. In later years, Kathryn said that God didnt call her to build a church, maintaing that her ministry was not to be isolated to any one building. Some may be called to build buildings, but she wasnt one of those.
The fact that she did build churches was largely overshadowed by the publicity of the miracle services. The Kathryn Kuhlman Foundation, established in Pittsburgh, financed more than twenty churches in foreign mission fields with nationals as pastors.
Many called her pastor out of love and respect, but Kathryn was never ordained to the office of pastor. After her stay in Denver, she never pastured a church. Kathryn said she was not called to a five-fold office, (i.e., Ephesians 4:11) She walked in the simplicity of being a a handmaiden of the Lord.
It is said by those closest to her, that Kathryn announced at the very beginning of her ministry, that she would be the next Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Four Square denomination. Aimee was definitely Kathryns role model. When the flamboyant Sister built Angelus Temple in Los Angeles, Kathryn was present during its highest popularity. It is said that Kathryn attended Aimees Bible School, and sat in the balcony of her church, taking in every aspect of the anointed messages and theatrics of Sister. Unlike the other L.I.F.E Bible School students, Kathryn chose not to stay with the Four Square denomination. She chose an independent route.
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| 2008/4/4 13:03 | Profile | psalm1 Member

Joined: 2007/1/30 Posts: 1230
| Re: | | I like this testimony of Wigglesworth;
Bible Reading-Acts 5:1-20.
Notice this expression that the Lord gives of the Gospel message-"the words of this life." It is the most wonderful life possible-the life of faith in the Son of God. This is the life where God is all the time. He is round about and He is within. It is the life of many revelations and of many manifestations of God's Holy Spirit, a life in which the Lord is continually seen, known, felt and heard. It is a life without death, for "we have passed from death unto life." The very life of God has come within us. Where that life is within in its fullness, disease cannot exist. It would take me a month to tell out what there is in this wonderful life. Everyone can go in and possess and be possessed by this life.
It is possible for you to be within the vicinity of this life and yet miss it. It is possible for you to be in a place where God is pouring out His Spirit and yet miss the blessing that God is so willing to bestow. It all comes through shortness of revelation and through a misunderstanding of the infinite grace of God, and of the "God of all grace," who is willing to give to all who will reach out the hand of faith. This life that He freely bestows is a gift. Some think they have to earn it and they miss the whole thing. Oh, for a simple faith to receive all that God so lavishly offers. You can never be ordinary from the day you receive this life from above. You become extraordinary, filled with the extraordinary power of our extraordinary God.
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| 2008/4/4 23:38 | Profile | crsschk Member

Joined: 2003/6/11 Posts: 9192 Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Black guard | | Katy,
Hesitatingly will I attempt this ...
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just because someone doesn't like a person's personal conviction ((based on Scripture)), is that person fair game, when they are involved in any subject...for another to intrude with this kind of behavior, with a drive by, hit and run, without consequence?
It is indeed ill-advised and wrong. Frankly and though perhaps a bit differently, this is often the very issue that is brought to bear in many of your posts. Character assassination is or can be woeful, if that is the intention, but our character does come through in whatever we write, one way or another. It may be completely misunderstood, it may be close to the truth, it may cause us to ... pause for consideration, if we are willing to bear it. Certainly the manner. My case in point being the great failing example here, that which has caused much grief and sadness. It is often what is railed at in this setting. The strife and commotion, debate rather than discussion ... My foolishness was in adding to it, handling it poorly ...
Apply the same reasoning if I may shorten it a little;
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just because someone doesn't like a person's personal conviction ((based on Scripture)), is that person fair game, when they are involved in any subject...for another to intrude with ...
Reams of scripture being posted, a constant harping at matters, the tendency to hijack a post, whatever it may be in intention, it often conveys a certain attitude. Again, it may be completely far from the intent, but so it appears. Apply it broadly, not just in this instance. What of your intrusion? Or mine for that matter ...
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If you are to be a fair and just Moderator, you would have seen Julian as the character assassinator who's comments introduced ..or possibly wanted to, a spirit of contention that was never here before that moment.
"Never here before that moment". Look to your own contributions, go back and read all that you have written. Apply the same to yourself. The uncredited article that was first introduced. Are we to take your assessment as 'gospel' on your word? Have you indeed read any of his works for yourself or is it a passing on of second, third hand information? "[i]Wigglesworth taught _______"[/i], This is the air of superiority that is often given off in many postings. Maybe you have indeed read much of him and by him first hand, but it is not stated.
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I would also like to say Mike, I have more than once apologized to others for things I have said and done. I have taken rebuke. Maybe you missed those posts. So those things I have already settled and apologized for are as far as the East is from the West....
Yet prior to all this was an effort to blame someone else. It's a separate issue. Take note of one thing here, for all of this, nowhere is there any forthcoming specifically of any fault of your own or answer to those things brought to bear. This is often the case, an end around to another matter. Blame, excuse, defend and then self justification. It is not just one post but a continual pattern across many. It's pride, not in an instance but in disposition or so it seems. That's the trouble, often the trouble generally speaking, that we are too weak to accept or even consider 'criticism' without suspicions of ill-will, having to defend ourselves, explain ourselves, justify ourselves. It is incredibly pathetic and beggarly. Too proud to be misunderstood ...
Abusing PM's ... It's grievous to hear these things. We cannot control the content of them nor would there be any desire to do so, this setting is enough of a work on it's own to get bogged down in private disputes. It shouldn't even need the mention, but nobody should be sending anything of this sort to anybody. Just as well, to hear them dredged up here like this ... you might be astonished at some of the things I have received over the years, but put them out here publicly?
A lot of this gets too didactic trying to answer everything. There is no favoritism. There may be perceptions but, at the time, and if it must be said I took the removal of the offending replies (though we frown on that, preferring a apology, clarification, what have you) as a regret for having put them out in the first place. It doesn't make it right nor had it been addressed until now.
This is to defend nothing or no one. It is a colossal failure on my part. It is intrusion on this thread and failure to be impartial. Indeed, those thing you mention are still correct, even if there is an attempt to have you look at them yourself. It is not about an aberration injected but an observance over time, rightly or not I do not know for certain and where I might have well better had prayed than spoke. Am trying to be as forthcoming as possible here.
Paul West's last reply is so succinct, so dead on, so incredibly ... of my own thought's it is a wonder considering we probably haven't spoken a word to each other in a week or so.
At this point I would far rather talk about my failures and misgivings over the course of the last few weeks. It is for another place and time, everything is being reaccessed. It is a loss of true, dedicated prayer that has greatly affected so much .. I know it and must rectify it. I am broken and saddened over much of my folly and for those that left recently. They are as wrong as can be on a great deal, however there is just a much truth that I must face and deal with. My wrong far outstrips anything that might have been said or done. There is much that is regrettable, much that is unfortunate, much that is misunderstood and perhaps even that which was rightly brought to bear. Things can quickly turn into a quagmire of feeling compelled to answer or "defend" that which is indefensible. Sin, foolishness and folly need to be admitted not defended. Fantastical, imaginative accusations or insinuations demanding an answer will receive nothing in response when there is no truth to them or in them.
This elusive quality of honesty, though it is demanded of us ...
Somehow we need to get past this idea of being contestants in a battle with each other. Squaring off into factions and fissures, imaging so much evil of one another. Not only will we not accept wrong but we percieve wrong ideas about each other as a first instance and then let our imaginations and perceptions direct us forward. It's all backwards. Why not of a first instance apply the more highly likely attribute that I myself may have it all wrong? I must consider this even here, at all times. It's not "don't judge me", but please do! We ought to welcome it, desire it, be ever so appreciative of it, thank God for it, even when it is backed with wrong motive ... can we at least consider that it might be true? If there is nothing to it, there is nothing to defend, but if there is ... ? And even more stringently, when we are defending, what is it saying about ourselves?
The black guard of the heart, this incredible pride.
_________________ Mike Balog
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| 2008/4/5 13:24 | Profile | psalm1 Member

Joined: 2007/1/30 Posts: 1230
| Re: | | Wigglesworth seemed to live in revival and carry revival:
"Ananias and Sapphira were in this thing and yet they missed it. They thought that possibly the thing might fail. So they wanted to have a reserve for themselves in case it did turn out to be a failure. They were in the wonderful revival that God gave to the early church and yet they missed it. There are many people like them today who make vows to God in times of a great crisis in their lives. But they fail to keep their vows and in the end they become spiritually bankrupt. Blessed is the man who will swear to his own hurt and change not; who keeps the vow he has made to God; who is willing to lay his all at God's feet. The man who does this never becomes a lean soul. God has promised to "make fat his bones." There is no dry place for such a man; he is always fat and flourishing, and he becomes stronger and stronger. It pays to trust God with all and to make no reservation.
I wish I could make you see how great a God we have. Ananias and Sapphira were really doubting God and were questioning whether this work that He had begun would go through. They wanted to get some glory for selling their property, but because of their lack of faith they kept back part of the price in reserve in case the work of God should fail.
Many are doubting whether this Pentecostal revival will go through. Do you think this Pentecostal work will stop? Never. For fifteen years I have been in constant revival and I am sure that it will never stop. When George Stephenson made his first engine he took his sister Mary to see it. She looked at it and said to her brother, "George, it'll never go." He said to her, "Get in, Mary." She said again, "It'll never go." He said to her, "We'll see, you get in." Mary at last got in-the whistle blew, there was a puff and a rattle, and the engine started off. Then Mary cried out, "George, it'll never stop! It'll never stop!"
People are looking on at this Pentecostal revival and they are very critical and they are saying, "It'll never go;" but when they are induced to come into the work, they one and all say, "It'll never stop." This revival of God is sweeping on and on and there is no stopping the current of life, of love, of inspiration, and of power.
(Interpretation; It is the living Word who has brought this. It is the Lamb in the midst, the same yesterday, today and forever.)
God has brought unlimited resources for everyone. Do not doubt. Hear with the ear of faith. God is in the midst. See that it is God who bath set forth that which you see and hear today."
David
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| 2008/4/5 21:56 | Profile | JesusInMe Member

Joined: 2008/4/5 Posts: 4
| Re: Was Wigglesworth serious? | | What a blessed life and Ministry that Wigglesworth lived in!
Oh that we would believe God for such marvelous things in our day! |
| 2008/4/5 23:48 | Profile |
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