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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi HE_Reigns...

Quote:
That's the stance of the CNP alright.

Why was this comment necessary? I agree that force might be acceptable in defense of the innocent -- and I am not a member of the CNP (or any other much maligned organization). Is Chuck Colson even a member?

If not, then making such a statement is the similar to saying that "Christian non-resistant" believers do not support the war in Iraq -- which is the same stance as Al Quaeda...or Quakers...or even the Amish.

In this instance, I tend to agree with Brother Colson. While I don't agree with him on several issues, I've often admired his work with prisoners. I also have noticed that I share some of his same views in regard to the administration of government. He has very intriguing insight as a former Washington insider. I actually met him once at an airport where he was sharing Christ with a pilot.


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/7 13:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Why was this comment necessary?


That does not sound friendly Chris.
You can make my statement say whatever you choose. Anyone can.
I only made a statement to MC's quote.

Just to answer your question that you've asked me....
Quote:
Is Chuck Colson even a member?


http://www.policycounsel.org/16332/19101.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

Quote:
If not, then making such a statement is the similar to saying that "Christian non-resistant" believers do not support the war in Iraq -- which is the same stance as Al Quaeda...or Quakers...or even the Amish.


:-(

 2008/3/7 13:44
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: prayer for pastorfrin

Brothers and Sisters,

I thank each and every one of you for your prayers and concern for my family and me.
Thank you Sister Annie, for bringing this need to every ones attention; I tend not to want to burden others, which is one of my weaknesses.
So as not to divert this thread away from its intended subject, I will update every one on the ‘Miracles that follow the plow forum’.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2008/3/8 8:38Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Hi Brother MC,

Quote:
The idea of the historical Jesus running for president is on its face preposterous. He was tempted by Satan, who offered Him all the powers of the world, and He emphatically declined (Luke 4). He told the Roman governor Pilate that “My kingdom is not of this world.”




Not only on its face is it preposterous, but according to the teachings and declarations of Jesus Christ it is preposterous.
Rev. 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Quote:
The only possible way in which one could deal with this question is to simply assume that someone wanted to be as Christ-like as possible, which means to take a biblical perspective on the various issues. On the death penalty, Christians have historically been divided. In rare cases, nothing less will balance the scales of justice. But the weight of Christian reflection would be against the needless taking of life—and certainly against the taking of innocent life in any form, which deals with the question of abortion, of course.





With a ninety percent civilian casualty rate coming from modern warfare, how does collateral damage fit in with "against the taking of innocent life in any form"?



Quote:
On the question of Iraq, there is a well-established just war tradition going back to St. Augustine. Muslim scholars over the years have contributed to it. So in a sense it reflects the best of religious thinking. There are those cases where to protect the innocent military forces have to be committed. Would Jesus commit them? No. His kingdom is not of this world. Would someone attempting to follow Jesus as closely as he could commit them? Yes, if it meant the preservation of order, the doing of justice, and the restraint of evil, all of which are the biblical tasks for government.



This is in total contradiction with the teachings of Christ.
Where did Christ teach this just war tradition and to what part did the early church take part in it?
According to this philosophy, would not the Christians living under cruel Roman rule have 'just cause' to deliver those being tortured and killed?
Why did not Jesus or the Disciples lead them to overcome and protect the innocent by fighting a just war?

Could it be because?
2 Cor. 10:3-5
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Ephes. 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Why are people today considered more innocent then in the time of Jesus and his disciples?

We are to follow the teachings and example of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the example or commands of a world government in opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

John 18:36-37
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. [37] Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


In His Love
pastorfrin



 2008/3/8 9:42Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Thank you, HE_Reigns...

Quote:
"Why was this comment necessary?"

That does not sound friendly Chris.
You can make my statement say whatever you choose. Anyone can.

Forgive me for that, sister. I didn't intend that this comment was to be taken as unfriendly, Annie. I simply meant to ask the rationale behind the comment. What does this discussion have to do with the CNP? Are you insisting that everything that the organization and everything that they believe is evil? What does that have to do with Colson's comments?

Please understand that I know more want to offend or disrespect your own beliefs (whatever they may be) in this issue anymore than you probably want to offend or disrespect my own. I would, however, like to point out that there are true believers (like me) who feel that physical resistance can be used in defense of the innocent.

Often, I feel that I am talked down to simply because I feel the liberty (and need) to vote. I know that this is probably not the intention of those who do not believe as such, but the opinions are often presented in a manner that attempts to express that those who do not believe such are on a higher spiritual level. This leaves all of us voters, and wife/children/neighbor defenders on a lower, less spiritual plane. Someone even suggested once that those who get involved in government are in danger of giving power to the Antichrist!

It is a good thing to proclaim our opinions. Pastorfrin is a fine example of a person who tirelessly shares his beliefs about Christian Non-resistance with a meek attitude. He has kindly pointed out the differences between pacifism and his beliefs, and he has provided a Scriptural rationale for those beliefs. While I still disagree about the extent of such non-resistance (particularly in regard to whether another cause might supersede the principle), I still respect those beliefs. I don't think that anyone could point to our brother and can him anything but sincere in his endeavor to live up to the Scriptures. Is this not descriptive of all believers? Although we might believe in certain limited involvements with our earthly country, we do so in completely sincerity and honesty after a struggle over the extent of such liberty or need.

Please forgive me if I have come across as being proud or haughty. That is not my intention. I know that you might feel that you have a lot to say in the forums, and I do weigh your words within each conversation as holding the weight of a seasoned believer. I might not agree with your beliefs, opinions or even rationale at times, but it doesn't change my respect for you.

May the Lord bless you exceedingly!


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/8 10:31Profile
Zionshield
Member



Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re:

Nations are held to a different standard than individuals. God has given authority to the gov't to bear the sword. Thou shalt not kill would more accurately be translated thou shalt not murder...even when Jesus reiterated that he revealed hatred as the real culprit not the duty of a soldier. Actually< I'm sure quite a bit was said...too many threads for me to read. D James Kennedy had a great message on this.


_________________
Randy Lambert

 2008/3/17 21:58Profile





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