That is why you are still interrogating and preaching to an elder about his family's convictions and leaving faces for him.
I am not interrogating and preaching to an elder, Annie. I simply asked for a clarification about the extent of his non-resistance philosophy. No offense was meant in the slightest (as I have already stated). Those faces are not meant as sarcasm, offense, or anything else, sister. So please slow down with such accusations.
Yes, this is The Body of Christ and I do have the right to speak up for a brother who's posts I have read - including yours Chris.
We've had years to get to know Pastor Frin and even all about his family and his history and his present trials and hard work.
I even have you and your wife's picture in my SI files for prayer purposes and to know the age of who I'm addressing. That is a factor in the Body.
Have the Frin's pictures and other member's pictures that they've sent me besides.
I find it helpful to see faces that I address and pray for.
Shouldn't we all get to know each other if we're going to post to each other in such a way - after all these years?
Sister, you certainly have a right to read and speak up. But I believe that you have misunderstood this situation. I very much feel a part of this SermonIndex community. I have been here for a long time, and frequented the forums even before becoming a member. I am incredibly thankful to the Lord for this website. It is a treasure because it contains a wealth of messages from some wonderful men of God! Yet I dont spend every waking hour of every day roaming through the forums. I dont read through every thread or every post. That is why I apologized if he had already covered the specificities of my question in the past.
I dont even know the age of pastorfrin let alone his life story. He obviously is older than me, since he called me a child in his last post. But again, I meant (and still mean) no disrespect for the man or whatever [i]de facto[/i] or [i]de jure[/i] position he may have at SermonIndex or in the Body of Christ. My inquiry was a simple question asked with sincerity, honesty and without pretense. Even reading over my post again, I still cant figure out why someone would become so offended by it.
Sister, please understand that many of us are not nearly as overtly involved in the SermonIndex forums. I do read many posts in many threads but most of my time here is spent downloading or reading sermons. I try to limit my participation in the forums. Why? Because I realize how much more I need to learn, and I typically join mostly as a spectator. Ive witnessed far more conflicts and arguments and debates than I have ever joined. I try to participate only if I (usually after prayer) feel that I have something meaningful to say or input or that I have a question about something else. In addition, I do not keep a file (complete with photos) about the various members of SermonIndex. Why? Well, I dont do that with my local Church, either. Besides, there are thousands of members now and I dont have the time or motive to do something like that.
In my years here at SermonIndex, I have invited many brothers and sisters to fellowship with us. Almost all of them have been blessed by the messages and music. But sadly, I have heard reports on several occasions from people who have been turned off by any sort of participation in the forums because of contemptuous ideological conflict. Even my wife limits her participation here because she has read certain words that were uttered in almost vicious condescension. Let me make this clear: I meant no disrespect toward brother pastorfrin as a man, or as an elder. I do disagree with some of the extent of his non-resistant philosophy. Yet I do not believe that I am in the wrong to ask him to clarify it. But I will try to make certain that I no longer use the faces when I feel that someone might suspect something sinister by them.
This is getting a little carried away, isnt it?
| 2008/3/6 16:13||Profile|
This is getting a little carried away, isnt it?
Yes, that was my feeling Brother.
| 2008/3/6 16:34|
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not expect anyone to agree with me on non-resistance or any other matter as far as that goes. Nor do I care about the faces; in fact I have not considered them before. The problem was the cut and paste comment:
I am genuinely interested in learning your feelings in regard to this (and not the feelings of someone else that might be copied and pasted from someone elses teachings).
I read this at 4:30am this morning and I understood it to mean what is says, thus my response.
Chris I do not know what more I could add. What is there about putting my body between the attacker and who is being attacked do you not understand? I did not say I would resist them in any other way, and I would not; at least that is what I believe I would do.
You never know for sure until you are placed in that situation. I have been trained to kill in one swift strike, that was years ago and it would not be too swift today.
I have a weapons safe filled with weapons that would easily disable or take some ones life. It is locked and the keys are hidden in a different part of the house. They would be useless if someone did break in to do us harm. Since I stopped hunting they have been locked away.
We need to know and have it settled in our hearts what the Lord would have us to do. As I have said in the past, this is up to the individual, I cannot be, nor do I want to be someone elses conscience.
So it is clear and you understand, I would not resist other than placing myself as a shield, and this would be by the grace and strength of the Lord.
In my opinion, most do not look honestly at non-resistance and it is evident by the number of excuses that are made as reasons why it cannot be. If Jesus is our example, then it is Jesus we must follow. Jesus, his disciples, and the early church lived and taught non-resistance.
This can only be received by our faith, trust and hope resting solely in Jesus Christ and steadfastly looking upon His teachings, and these examples; only then will we believe the words of the apostle Paul. I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me.
When I pray each day for the Fathers will to be done in myself, my family and His Church, I trust Him and only Him. He knows what we are made of and if we truly seek Him, then He will prepare us for whatever we must face to bring glory unto His name.
After all; it is His Kingdom, His Power and His Glory and I believe we can rest in the fact that He has it all under control.
Blessed is the man who puts all his trust in the Lord.
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding and I hope this helps with your questions.
In His Love
| 2008/3/6 17:51||Profile|
pastorfrin..Thank you for expressing your heart and convictions on this matter.When I read your posts I am often inspired to share varied lessons I have learned that are in alignment to what you preach..but do not know if they would be appreciated..as they have to do with being obediant to the Holy Spirit not to do harm to another and usually end in the activity of angels to subdue an attacker..some people become very threatened when I share these type of events..either because they do not have a point of reference personally or do not believe God still does this today..Sometimes I am accused of being proud or boastful. The scriptures tell us to do this speak of the mighty works of God. We come under His discipline,this is our desire..not to show off.Heaven forbid..but sometimes we do not know our own motives and so we pray..i d not want to become too timid to speak..for fear of stumbling someone else..this seems wrong as well.
My first thought/intention is that these things ought to be spoken of because they help others to realize that God does these greater things when we believe and obey Him..when we follow Jesus example even when facing death or a beating etc.Why is it ok for the scriptures to bear witness by recording these type of events and today it is frowned upon? I can be inspired by the acts of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the Apostles but I am not allowed to speak of them now..to equip and inspire the body of Christ to believe in these acts today?If God's elect people will not stand in Christ..in His way, embracing the reality of His sacrificial death in the small details how do they expect to see His protective provision on a larger scale when things become crucial.Every small act of obediance is crucial.These are,in part, a type of the solid foundation from where He builds our faith..developes the word of our testimony(Christ in us) which helps us to overcome fear and accusation. I believe the little things I have done to obey His leading provided me with the proof of the pudding..so to speak..the reality of His Word and Will made manifest when He swiftly came to the rescue..rewarding my having been dilligent to trust Him at His Word,underlining for me that I could have faith in following this way of the meek and lowly Master..gentle and humble.That I needn't fear.
I hope you will respond to this..you seem so level headed..I will be praying for the release to share further..in the meantime..thanks again for your posts.
I especially enjoyed the ones on Let's talk about peace,on heavenly ambassadorship..is that a word? Helped me to realign in a few places where I'd become too involved/concerned in my mind /emotions with the kingdom of man's government/politics.Much Appreciated!
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet
| 2008/3/6 18:58||Profile|
Brothers and Sisters, I'm asking - please pray for Pastor Frin.
He keeps much of what he faces each day, from us and I feel I have to let this out of the bag now.
He should not have to go through things without us rooting for him.
He has a very large family that he is responsible for in many ways.
7 children and 14 grandchildren and some staying with him and still working a hard physical job and Pastoring his Church as well.
If he doesn't answer right away or as we're used to - please know this - he has been struggling since January with a Dr.s suggestion of checking his bones for a suspicion of cancer again. His blood tests in January were not right, nor this last batch. I'll say this out-right, though you could figure it yourself, he's been dragging since last year. Or is pushing the better word?
Just after last year's relief near Christmas - to hear "cancer" for the third time now again?
I know the love he has for his wife and family.
Beyond what I've seen in most families in my time.
Today he goes for more discussions about more tests with his Dr..
Please let's pull together and just pray.
We need to love and pray for each other more.
He can speak for himself very well - when he's at home and not piled down with these many responsiblities, burdens and issues.
I'm not his spokesperson in the slightest - Just asking for prayer - that's all.
| 2008/3/7 1:41|
| Re: Jesus and his teaching accentuate the end of all killing!!!!|
Reply to all
We have discussed very difficult personal questions and my prayer is that I have not offended, nor betrayed anyone, I hate no one.
Jesus taught us to love one another and that is not in dispute. I would never kill out of hatred. That is such a vile concept I know we are not even allowed to consider the matter.
God knows whom He has chosen and I admit I cant rationalize every situation we are placed in as members of the body of humanity. The working of our Lord in our lives is a wonderful mystery to me. I have no faith in my own self. He that chose me knows all things so take what I say with a box of salt and put your trust in Him.
We will all have to give an account of this discourse. Fear could grip ones heart if being weak in faith they threw out their convictions because we brought them into question. No one has harmed me and I pray I have not did any harm.
| 2008/3/7 4:19||Profile|
Quote:i'm praying now, thank you for putting the need out there. brother pastorfrin, we are praying and believing with you.
Brothers and Sisters, I'm asking - please pray for Pastor Frin.
| 2008/3/7 8:11||Profile|
Thank you. No offense was taken whatsoever. We can differ in this matter and still be understanding and respectful of one another's opinions about the meaning of the Scriptures in this regard.
You and your family are in our prayers.
| 2008/3/7 11:02||Profile|
A friend sent me these brief paragraphs they found in the Washington Post. Here, Chuck Colson answers' the question, would Jesus run for President, and what might that look like. Colson's curious but unblinking response seemed relevant to this thread...
The idea of the historical Jesus running for president is on its face preposterous. He was tempted by Satan, who offered Him all the powers of the world, and He emphatically declined (Luke 4). He told the Roman governor Pilate that My kingdom is not of this world.
The only possible way in which one could deal with this question is to simply assume that someone wanted to be as Christ-like as possible, which means to take a biblical perspective on the various issues. On the death penalty, Christians have historically been divided. In rare cases, nothing less will balance the scales of justice. But the weight of Christian reflection would be against the needless taking of lifeand certainly against the taking of innocent life in any form, which deals with the question of abortion, of course.
On the question of Iraq, there is a well-established just war tradition going back to St. Augustine. Muslim scholars over the years have contributed to it. So in a sense it reflects the best of religious thinking. There are those cases where to protect the innocent military forces have to be committed. Would Jesus commit them? No. His kingdom is not of this world. Would someone attempting to follow Jesus as closely as he could commit them? Yes, if it meant the preservation of order, the doing of justice, and the restraint of evil, all of which are the biblical tasks for government.
| 2008/3/7 13:00||Profile|
That's the stance of the CNP alright.
| 2008/3/7 13:04|