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 Re:

Thank you Brother Compton for your patience with your reply. Much appreciated.

I do understand. I've stood on both sides. I was going to go to Israel during the Iraq war and help with the wounded back then.
I was listening and taping 'Rush' at the time and was "gun-hoe".

That really wasn't that long ago. 1991-92.

But since I got saved in '76 for some reason, the LORD put China on my heart. Never have been able to shake that. I thought that was a big enough burden, but gradually after about '94 the burden started to wrap itself around the entire globe and I saw the planet as one people - all equally His creation. All equal.

I'm not condemning the men that are in the Service now. And I support the police funds and hang out the blue ribbon on my fence when one of them is killed locally.

This is a very difficult subject to bring up, because of my fear of divisions among us - but my eyes are on the present state of other countries and our future.

Can't we stop what's gone on in China all of these years to babies and Christians and those in slave labor camps, etc. etc. ? No, we are in financial debt to them. We owe them quite a bit that we've 'borrowed' and they are our source for most everything now and one of the nations on the UN security council.


That's just one nation where the innocent and our brothers and sisters are. Just one of the many where these inhumane conditions thrive without our help.

I suppose the question I asked of Krispy is what weighs on me most also, because we're still Free and it's easy for us to talk like this - but what if we lose our "liberty" tomorrow? What will we do when they come to take our guns away?

And if they take our Police force's guns away ?

What if it should be as Gen. Tommy Franks said, if martial law should come or if we have foreign troops over us - what will we do?

I'm not worried about guys hunting for their food, etc., but I think about a country that has no idea what it is to lose their freedom - not being prepared to one day, in anyway.
How will we react?

As far as why we pulled out of VietNam - just as any good historian would tell you - you may have to dig deeper before you place the blame.

I believe MC that you are a peaceful man and I feel I've probably said enough of what I worry about on this thread. I could end it here and know that in the end that His Love will win out in the hearts of His Saints.

With my deep respect brother.

 2008/3/5 20:40
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re: A Sword

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
i have wondered this kind of stuff as well. i have wondered why Jesus sent his diciples in luke 10 with no money bag or sack, but then in luke 22 He tells them to bring a money bag, sack and to carry a sword. if they didn't have one, He tells them to sell their garment and buy one. Why did He tell them to buy a sword? (luke 22:38) He tells His disciples to buy and carry a sword, but for what? if He never wanted nor expected them to use it, then why did He command them to have one? i don't know that answer, nor do i have any secret motive regarding this issue because i have no answer.

just putting some questions out there for thought.

phil





Hi Phil,

Hope this helps with your questions.

WAR INCONSISTENT WITH THE
RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST

by David Low Dodge

Part 4

OBJECTIONS ANSWERED

As was proposed, a number of objections to the general sentiments that have been advocated shall be stated and answered.

11. Christ told his Apostles to get swords

Objection. Our Lord, just before his crucifixion, commanded his disciples to take swords, and, if any were destitute, to sell their garments and procure them, as they would no longer have his personal presence to protect them. And, as they were to encounter great trials and difficulties, they must, besides relying on providence, take all prudent means for their defense and preservation.

Answer. That our Lord did not direct them to take swords for self-defense is evident because he told them that two were enough, and because the disciples never made any use of them after their Master directed Peter to his away and pronounced a penalty on all who should have recourse to swords afterwards. But the design seems to have been to show by example in the most trying situation where self-defense was justifiable, if in any case, that the use of the sword was utterly prohibited under the gospel economy, and to show the criminality and danger of ever using deadly weapons against mankind afterwards. If Christ’s kingdom had been of this world, then, he tells us, his servants would have fought; but his kingdom being not of this world, the weapons of their warfare were not carnal but spiritual. He therefore rebuked them for their mistaken zeal, healed the wound they made, and forbade the use of the sword.



CHRISTIAN
NON-RESISTANCE

by Adin Ballou

Chapter 3

Scriptural Objections Answered

Objection 1 – You throw away the Old Testament – Voice of the New Testament – Voice of the Old Testament. Objection 2 – The scourge of small cords. Objection 3 – The two swords. Objection 4 – The death of Ananias and Sapphira. Objection 5 – Human government – Romans chapter 13 – How the apostles viewed the then existing governments – Submission to, not participation in governments enjoined on Christians – In what sense the powers that be are ordained of God – Pharaoh God’s “minister” – Also the monarch of Assyria – Also Nebuchadnezzar – The Roman government – Respects wherein government is ordained of God – Paul’s conduct in relation to government – Conclusion.

Objection 3 – The Two Swords

According to the 22nd chapter of Luke, Christ directed his disciples to provide themselves swords. “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” Swords could be of no other use than as weapons of war or of self-defense. How can this be reconciled with your doctrine of non-resistance?


Answer. There is one other use to which the sword might possibly be put. It might be employed on a memorable occasion as the significant emblem of in injurious resistance, for the purpose of emphatically inculcating non-resistance. I will attempt to demonstrate that this was the special use to which Jesus intended to apply it in the case before us. He gave this direction to buy swords at the last Passover, just before his betrayal in the garden of Gethsemane. When he had given it, his disciples presently responded, “‘Lord, behold, here are two swords.’ And he said unto them, ‘It is enough.’” Verse 38. How could two swords be enough to arm twelve men for war or self-defense? This single fact shows that such was not the design of Jesus. He had a more sublime purpose. When Judas gave the traitorous kiss, and the multitude approached to seize Jesus, his disciples demanded, saying, “Lord, shall we smite with the sword?” And one of them smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. Verse 49-50. Matthew (26:52) informs us how Jesus disposed of the sword. “Then said Jesus unto him, ‘Put up again thy sword into his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” So saying, he touched the wounded ear, and restored it, suffering himself to be borne away by his enemies without resistance. Thus the sequel proved that he caused swords to be provided, for that occasion, (two only being enough) for the sole purpose of emphatically, finally, and everlastingly prohibiting the use of the instrument, even by the innocent in self-defense. Ever after this, those apostles, and for a long time the primitive Christians, conscientiously eschewed the use of the sword. These three facts prove my assertion. 1. Two swords were enough. 2. The moment one of these was wielded in defense of betrayed innocence, it was peremptorily stayed, the wound caused by it healed, and the sublime mandate given, “Put up thy sword again into his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” 3. The apostles and primitive Christians obeyed the injunction, never afterwards making the least use of such deadly weapons. This objection then ends in solid confirmation of the non-resistance doctrine, and may be appreciated accordingly.
__________________________________________



Just to add a comment on the issue, and this is not aimed at anyone, just a comment.

When will we just plain look at what Jesus taught and lived by example. He is our example to follow.
He did not encourage, teach or show by example in any way, that one should take up arms and fight to obtain their freedom, or to protect themselves when attacked.
His disciples did not teach this, and the early church did not teach this.
So why should we?

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2008/3/5 20:54Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Hi pastorfrin…

Quote:

When will we just plain look at what Jesus taught and lived by example. He is our example to follow.
He did not encourage, teach or show by example in any way, that one should take up arms and fight to obtain their freedom, or to protect themselves when attacked.
His disciples did not teach this, and the early church did not teach this.
So why should we?


I think that the problem with this statement is the assumption that we who are not adherents to this sort of “Christian Non-resistant” ideology are [i][u]not[/u][/i] looking at “what Jesus taught and lived by example.” We do. This has been an issue for which I have wrestled a long time. I really question the rationale for killing a man – even in [i]personal[/i] self-defense. However, I do feel that I would be quite RESISTANT toward a person trying to harm my wife or children.

Yes, Jesus told us to “turn the other cheek” when struck. But he also told us to give to everyone who asks. Do we truly live up to this? If someone were to ask us for our coat, do we give them our shirt as well? If someone were to ask us for our [i]home[/i] or [i]car[/i] – would we? At what point is the line drawn? Obviously, Jesus was telling us to love our enemies. But at what point do we perform a disservice to our families? Are we commanded to protect and provide for them? If a person asks for my provisions (money, clothing, etc…) that are intended to be supplied to my wife or children, what would the Lord require of me? If I am commanded to take care of my wife, my children, my family and my neighbors – what should I do if they are threatened with violence?

As Brother Krispy stated, there is a difference between [u]murder[/u] and [u]killing[/u] (especially in regard to selfish motive). A mean person can [i]murder[/i] an animal (for sport, boredom or even plain hatred). A hunter [i]kills[/i] an animal for food. A good father might [i]kill[/i] a bear or lion that tried to harm his family. The difference, as Krispy pointed out, lay in the motive. What if it were a violent man trying to harm his family (rather than a bear or lion)? While the man never wanted to harm a man – he might be motivated to save his family.

Pastorfrin, are you married? Do you have children? If so, what would [u]you[/u] do if someone broke into your home and wanted to physically harm them? Would you continue to [i]non-resist[/i]? Please understand that I am not asking this precociously. I am genuinely interested in learning [u]your[/u] feelings in regard to this (and not the feelings of someone else that might be copied and pasted from someone else’s teachings). Do you feel that it is ever proper or Scriptural to use force – even in defense of your family?

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/5 22:12Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Hi Annie. Just that we can grow to trust one another more is evidence that we are coming out of the world, and it's divisions.

Quote:
I believe MC that you are a peaceful man



Though I am perhaps quick to have confidence in others I know myself too well dear sister. The only true peace I've ever known is in the life of Christ...and as I learn to be quiet and content to desire nothing but to abide in him. Yet, why am I so quick to create turbulence for others who also desire to rest in Christ and in our fellowship with each other? With that in mind, your gentle response is much appreciated too...we can do much to help keep each other in Christ. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls

With tender regard for you sister,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/3/5 22:15Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re: The War To End All Wars

Greetings, all.

I don't really want to enter into the debate about this issue, but I'd like to share something.

I remember, when I was a boy, crawling up into my grandmother's attic and reading letters her son had sent her from the trenches in the Great War (WWI).

That was a long time ago, but I still remember a couple of those letters. In one, after describing things a bit (but only a bit, for the letter had to pass through censorship) he said something like, "Surely this must be Armageddon."

I was a young boy, I didn't know really what Armageddon even was, but I remember the fear it put in me, just reading that letter, and imagining.

And another letter... it was Christmas Day, and a lull in the fighting, and my uncle writes they heard singing from across No-man's-land... in German, carol singing. And after a bit, a few of them recognized the tune, and joined in the singing.

This went on for a while back and forth, the Germans starting a song, then the Canadians... And then some of them got up, and walked out unarmed into No-man's-land with a few gifts... treasures from packages they had received from home, a bit of Christmas cake, canned chicken, other things...

And then out from the enemy trenches came a few of their enemies as well, cautiously, tentatively... And they met together, shook hands, exchanged gifts, cigarettes...

So, here were men (with a Christian heritage and upbringing) in two opposing armies, one day fellowshipping under the Shadow of the Prince of Peace, but the next day back at war, back to the guns, back to killing one another.

...I just mention this because it's still so embedded in my own heart, those old letters.

And embedded also, the question, hasn't there been enough? Isn't the grave full enough yet? I am just saying, just asking-- some Christians in good conscience have fought men's wars; others because of conscience can't do it.

But where are we at now in this point in time? Can't we see where we are at? Take a look around you in this little planet of ours. The strife, the violence, the wars... Isn't it long past time to put an end to it all?

That war, the Great War, was supposed to be the war to end all wars.

It didn't happen, obviously.

But nevertheless, there IS a war to end all wars, and it's actually called the War of Armageddon. And, family of God, it's THIS ONE we are called to fight in, is it not?

"Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles: PREPARE WAR, wake up the mighty men, let the men of war draw near; let them come up; Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, I am strong.

"Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause THY MIGHTY ONES to come down, O LORD" (Joel 3. 9,10).

Isn't God "inviting" the whole world into a battle with Him here, with "His Mighty Ones"? I wonder who will win?

But I wonder if even we Christians have truly comprehended the power and potential of the devastating warfare of the Cross? You have to say, the Cross of Christ is far, far from pacifism: God was on the offensive there, defeating all His (and our) enemies, and "triumphing over them IN IT" (ie, in His Cross, Col. 2.15).

And so, is not this why we who are Christians-- if we comprehend our calling-- are called to "put on the whole armour of God?" For it's the armour and warfare of the Cross He is talking about.

I'm such a slow learner. But I do want to learn... to take up my Cross, and be one of these He calls, "His Mighty Ones." I'm thankful He's so patient with me. I have to be honest, and say it makes me feel weak in the knees, the prospect of this. But I'm glad to discover here in Joel that it's the weak who are to say they are strong!

This fills me with such Hope, that the Lamb of God, with those who are "with Him,", the "called and chosen and faithful," is going to, with those mighty spiritual weapons of the Cross, bring all His enemies under His feet... and under OUR feet as well (Rom. 16.20).

"He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

"Be still and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth" (Ps. 46.10).

I know this is a very big thing. But so is the One in whose Hands this is. And I believe this. And we will yet see this. And so this is where I am identified. This is the Army I am in. And I know I am on the winning side.

Bless you all,
AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2008/3/5 23:16Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Good word, brother AD.

 2008/3/5 23:30Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi pastorfrin…

Quote:

When will we just plain look at what Jesus taught and lived by example. He is our example to follow.
He did not encourage, teach or show by example in any way, that one should take up arms and fight to obtain their freedom, or to protect themselves when attacked.
His disciples did not teach this, and the early church did not teach this.
So why should we?


I think that the problem with this statement is the assumption that we who are not adherents to this sort of “Christian Non-resistant” ideology are [i][u]not[/u][/i] looking at “what Jesus taught and lived by example.” We do. This has been an issue for which I have wrestled a long time. I really question the rationale for killing a man – even in [i]personal[/i] self-defense. However, I do feel that I would be quite RESISTANT toward a person trying to harm my wife or children.

Yes, Jesus told us to “turn the other cheek” when struck. But he also told us to give to everyone who asks. Do we truly live up to this? If someone were to ask us for our coat, do we give them our shirt as well? If someone were to ask us for our [i]home[/i] or [i]car[/i] – would we? At what point is the line drawn? Obviously, Jesus was telling us to love our enemies. But at what point do we perform a disservice to our families? Are we commanded to protect and provide for them? If a person asks for my provisions (money, clothing, etc…) that are intended to be supplied to my wife or children, what would the Lord require of me? If I am commanded to take care of my wife, my children, my family and my neighbors – what should I do if they are threatened with violence?

As Brother Krispy stated, there is a difference between [u]murder[/u] and [u]killing[/u] (especially in regard to selfish motive). A mean person can [i]murder[/i] an animal (for sport, boredom or even plain hatred). A hunter [i]kills[/i] an animal for food. A good father might [i]kill[/i] a bear or lion that tried to harm his family. The difference, as Krispy pointed out, lay in the motive. What if it were a violent man trying to harm his family (rather than a bear or lion)? While the man never wanted to harm a man – he might be motivated to save his family.

Pastorfrin, are you married? Do you have children? If so, what would [u]you[/u] do if someone broke into your home and wanted to physically harm them? Would you continue to [i]non-resist[/i]? Please understand that I am not asking this precociously. I am genuinely interested in learning [u]your[/u] feelings in regard to this (and not the feelings of someone else that might be copied and pasted from someone else’s teachings). Do you feel that it is ever proper or Scriptural to use force – even in defense of your family?

:-)




Chris,

I feel sorry for you; that you would lower yourself to the place of insult. You are yet a child and thus you speak as a child. When I was your age I had been to hell and back and I have the scars on my body, and in my heart and mind to prove it. What have you Chris, what experience do you possess to insult others on this issue.

You say I have only copied and pasted from others on this issue, which is proof you speak from the flesh. There are pages in which I have poured out my heart on these issues, in my own words and from my own experiences. Do you think sharing these things is easy for me? This is not a game of who can score the most points with little digs at the other.
You ask, would I defend my family? Yes, I would place my body between them and the attacker, I would gladly take a bullet, knife, or beating unto death for any one of them.
Chris, I would do the same for you or any other brother or sister in the Lord. But I will not return evil for evil to anyone.
I will follow the example that Jesus Christ has given to all of us.
Did he ever take up the sword? Did he teach to do so? Did his disciples?

You speak as though you are the one who provides your possessions and your protection.
I can give whatever I have to someone who asks for it, because it is not mine, it is his.
My coat, my shirt, my house and my car; my family and even my life are all his. If he puts me in the place where anyone of them is to be given for ‘His sake’ who am I to withhold anything. He is the provider of all of my needs and thus I will trust Him for it ALL.

Perfect love casteth out all fear, what are you afraid of?

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2008/3/6 5:14Profile









 Re:

Quakers have no creed. but some would point to the Peace Testimony as one. it is very relevant to this thread, so here it is.

The Quaker Peace Testimony

We utterly deny all outward wars and strife and fighting with outward weapons for any end or under any pretense whatsoever; this is our testimony to the whole world . . . .
. . . The Spirit of Christ by which we are guided is not changeable, so as once to command us from a thing of evil and again to move us into it; and we certainly know and testify to the world that the Spirit of Christ which leads us into all truth will never move us to fight and war against any man with outward weapons, neither for the Kingdom of Christ nor for the kingdoms of this world...therefore we cannot learn war anymore.

Excerpts from a Statement by the Quakers to King Charles II (1660)

defending the dropping of an atomic bomb? on people who are not soldiers????

the point is that what we do in this earthly life is temporal, but it can keep us from entering eternity with God. whose temporal life is worth defending with outward weapons at the risk of losing one's eternal self?

bub


bub

 2008/3/6 10:11
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4529


 Re:

Pastorfrin…

Quote:

I feel sorry for you; that you would lower yourself to the place of insult. You are yet a child and thus you speak as a child. When I was your age I had been to hell and back and I have the scars on my body, and in my heart and mind to prove it. What have you Chris, what experience do you possess to insult others on this issue.


Whoa, brother! I think that you misunderstood! My post was not meant to be an insult to you – not even in the slightest! I thought that I was careful enough to even say so. Please reread it without reading between the lines! You don’t need to feel sorry for me, because no insult was intended or even offered. These words were my own thoughts on the issue, and a sincere question about the extent of your Christian non-resistance beliefs in a certain circumstance (the danger of loved ones). I didn’t intend for you to become offended by this.

As for scars, brother, I must confess that I have none (at least, none that can be seen with the eyes). This is not to say that I have not been physically attacked for my faith. I have been physically attacked for my faith to the point of shedding blood (and no, I didn’t retaliate). Scars? As you have correctly pointed out, not all scars are the results of tears on our physical bodies. Some of them are deeper and far more difficult to heal. But my question was not about scars. It was about whether or not you feel that a believer should practice resistance in cases where our families are in imminent danger. Why would I ask such a question? I was only recently married this past year, and my wife and I would like to eventually have children.
Quote:

You say I have only copied and pasted from others on this issue, which is proof you speak from the flesh. There are pages in which I have poured out my heart on these issues, in my own words and from my own experiences. Do you think sharing these things is easy for me? This is not a game of who can score the most points with little digs at the other.


Again, brother, this is simply not true. I did [u]not[/u] say that you [u]only[/u] copy and paste from others. I simply stated that I was interested in hearing your own words in regard to this particular question (about defending others). Why? Like I said, I am genuinely interested in learning your views on this matter. As long as I have read your posts, you have been an unwavering advocate of this particular philosophy. And no, we do not agree on every aspect of some things. But I still hold a great deal of respect for you. No, I haven’t read all of your posts since you’ve been on SermonIndex. So if you have addressed this issue in the past, I didn’t realize it or read it. And I certainly do not view any exchanges on SermonIndex as a game. You presented a particular philosophy and I asked a question. It doesn’t go any deeper than this, and there was no sinister reckoning on my part (and no, this wasn’t a set up question either).
Quote:

You ask, would I defend my family? Yes, I would place my body between them and the attacker, I would gladly take a bullet, knife, or beating unto death for any one of them.
Chris, I would do the same for you or any other brother or sister in the Lord. But I will not return evil for evil to anyone.


Thank you for the answer. However, this isn’t the same as defending a family member (the extent of my question). This is simply using our body as an obstacle. Perhaps that the question would have been better asked concerning whether or not a husband or father could physically disable a would-be intruder from harming his wife or children. Do you believe that we could wrestle, disarm, resist, etc… a person who is unwavering in his attempt to harm our families?
Quote:

I will follow the example that Jesus Christ has given to all of us.
Did he ever take up the sword? Did he teach to do so? Did his disciples?

You speak as though you are the one who provides your possessions and your protection.


This is a good question and the reason for my consideration in this matter. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek when we ourselves are attacked. Yet we are also instructed to take care of the needs of our families (or we are worse than an infidel). Yes, Jesus did tell us on at least one occasion to buy a sword (although his disciples had two; Luke 22:35-38).

My wife and I live on a lonely country road. Our home is located outside of town, in an area where illegal immigrants are known to be “dropped off.” While most illegal immigrants are not dangerous, some have been known to have assaulted or even raped people. A few months ago, an illegal immigrant was found guilty of having killed a husband, raped and murdered the wife, and stolen the possessions of the family – all while a child was in the house. Some illegal immigrants are not in this country just to get a job. Some are transporting drugs and weapons (or money to purchase drugs and weapons). Since we have had illegal immigrants (and police/border patrol) knock on our door at 3 o’clock in the morning, this has become a concern for my wife. Yes, we knelt to pray; but we were ready with a big stick on the other side of the bed too.

Yes, God is both our ultimate provider and protection. But that is not to say that it is a lack of faith to get a job in order to earn a paycheck. When I married my wife, I took a vow to provide for and protect her. In fact, I am commanded by the Scriptures to take care of her or be considered “worse than an infidel” (I Timothy 5:8). Is such provision limited to food, water or clothing? Can it be extended to protection? In Hebrews chapter 11, there were men and women who were commended for their faith. They are instructed to consider the faithful examples of Gideon, Samson, David, etc… “[i]Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens[/i].” These men did not act in defense of themselves or their own possessions. They acted on behalf of their families and nation (or, in the case of David, also on behalf of sheep; I Samuel 17:33-37). These men realized that God was on their side and their ultimate provider and protector. But they also offered themselves up as a sacrifice and vessel for God to perform. Similarly, God has chosen for us men as the vessel to provide for the physical needs of our families.
Quote:

I can give whatever I have to someone who asks for it, because it is not mine, it is his.
My coat, my shirt, my house and my car; my family and even my life are all his. If he puts me in the place where anyone of them is to be given for ‘His sake’ who am I to withhold anything. He is the provider of all of my needs and thus I will trust Him for it ALL.


I agree. But at what point does our responsibility to our families supersede this instruction to give to whoever asks? Should I take food out of the mouth of my wife in order to provide for someone else? Doesn’t this conflict with I Timothy 5:8 (“[i]But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.[/i]”)? Interestingly, we are told “[i]specially for those of his own house[/i],” thereby implying that our responsibility is not simply with our own immediate family, but to others that we might consider our “own.” In the United States, most states have “Good Samaritan laws.” These laws require that a person must step in to help those around us in times of need. We cannot legally walk away from an accident, a burglary, an attack, a medical emergency, etc… We have both a moral and legal obligation to help.

Pastorfrin, please know that this post (nor my last one) was meant to be construed as an insult. That was nowhere near my intention. I respect your opinions in this issue far more than you probably know, even if I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions. I simply meant to ask your feelings in regard to questions of using force as a means to resist someone who wants to harm my wife or children. Is physical defense ever a possibility?

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/3/6 10:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:

No, I haven’t read all of your posts since you’ve been on SermonIndex. So if you have addressed this issue in the past, I didn’t realize it or read it.




That is why you are still interrogating and preaching to an elder about his family's convictions and leaving faces for him.

Yes, this is The Body of Christ and I do have the right to speak up for a brother who's posts I have read - including yours Chris.

We've had years to get to know Pastor Frin and even all about his family and his history and his present trials and hard work.

I even have you and your wife's picture in my SI files for prayer purposes and to know the age of who I'm addressing. That is a factor in the Body.

Have the Frin's pictures and other member's pictures that they've sent me besides.
I find it helpful to see faces that I address and pray for.

Shouldn't we all get to know each other if we're going to post to each other in such a way - after all these years?

 2008/3/6 15:10





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