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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Attention all pastors who have a few moments to need of your wisdom here.

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 Re: Attention all pastors who have a few moments to need of your wisdom her

Hi destinysweet,

I hear you. I have an additional thought, though, which is that any answer has to be applicable to all other Christians. In the end, there will be a limit to the number of employees a Godly business can sustain, and there is pressure on them also, as David (psalm1) said, for from whom is a business to buy its raw material if it's the only 'Christian' business in town - and so on. At what point does a mother or father choose to starve their children to death, rather than buy from the only grocery outlet because the owner is a sinner? I've thought about these things. You may not agree with my conclusions.

So... sure, there are some places no Christian should [i]choose[/i] to work.

Then, there is matter of the personal responsibility of the individual before God - that is, the unsaved individuals who create the customer base for businesses which thrive on trading in sin or lies, or, the one who chooses to [i]create[/i] such a trading post. They will be answering to God also. At least if the Christian is there, there is a testimony to the risen life of Christ, a light in their darkness, showing that there [i]is[/i] an alternative.

Going further, if there is really [u]no[/u] choice at all, and it is a kind of torture by the society - that abominable 'work' is forced upon the believer - then what really matters is the circumcision of the heart, and to live in a praiseworthy way in God's sight, [u]in[/u] those circumstances. I think about this also, and pray for those already in such a hard place.

 2008/2/24 14:05

Joined: 2008/1/26
Posts: 55
Munford, TN


I gave you two chapters to read not an opinion Romans 13 and 14

John Graves

 2008/2/24 16:04Profile

Joined: 2007/11/19
Posts: 159


Whew..ok..let's see if we can bring some clarity here.
1.I was told to get pastoral advise because this was bothering me..I've been praying and communing with the Holy Spirit...I believe it is the Holy Spirit because the scriptures I am getting while praying and reading and listening as well as the discourse I an hearing as the Spirit explained to me the deeper connections to the priority folks place on producing financial for their family..etc. is all out of wack..and causing believers to be sheared of authority due to ignorance concerning heavenly law and principle..blinded and weakened,compromised..too loose of interpretations..and so much more that perhaps when I clear up some of the misunderstandings here we can proceed with out so much emotional charge attached...another reason I was asking for pastoral..or mature prayerful discerning response. I was direct with jgraves..not mean-spirited..I ask Him to forgive me if I was too brusque..I am often too verbose..trying so hard to cover the subject so well that none would misunderstand and jump to conclusions..especially because people don't usually pray in the moment..they just like to respond,just to say something and often they mean well but are not in the spirit..there has to be respect for what is being asked in the wording it is asked..people don't pay attention and then they fly off the handle..this why I said prayerfully..fully prayed about..this particular question ..before you write..if this is too not write a is my desire to interact with the holy patient folks on this forum..I am making an extreme effort to use this restraint myself. Does that help you understand my needs..How I love you!I love my son dearly...but if my teenage boy doesn't pay attention to my instructions..or honor me by listening to exactly what I am saying ..I do not pat him on the head and say good work son..I let him know as directly and ...and unemotionally as possible..further explaining the original information more fully since it is obvious he wasn't paying attention. I try to do sound bites but I am thorough and detail oriented..I've been trained by God to be this way. I was actually using restraint to be so brief. Forgive me..I have only just began writing to people on the net..I am not great at it..when you are in my presence you are not confused as to my meaning..or my tone.I also can be too sensitive here.

2.I have an analytical mind, this from my biological dad ..I can view any given situation many ways..but I have been trained by God to ask Him for His Divine perspective ..that I might know the Truth (Reality)regarding each situation that is brought before me. This is a habit..ingrained for long absolute need ..I could make myself nuts with my own focused am I on the kingdom ..God had to bring that perfect balance for me..and asking for help from humans..who for the most part cannot be trusted..lean on their own understanding..use whatever angle and loophole they can find to benefit themselves..or excuse themselves from having to actually suffer for the kingdom sake..or to go one mile let alone two..I believe that I am being healed to be able to trust humans again and it is a huge leap for me to ask ..that I can check this for confirmation gives me great hope that I will actually be given some friends who are steadfast and true and devoted to compromises none that they have been made aware of..I am such a fool for Christ..I have learned that I can go overboard..I have extreme faith and I tend to quantum leap in faith..It is good that our faith pleases God ..because if He were like people He would have stopped tolerating my incessant question asking and searching for truth the way I do..He says I am exquistely inquisitive..asking for help becomes difficult for me in atmospheres where people are quick to judge my motives..not having a clue how long I labor over understanding truth more fully..more accurately.Always is top most..mercy is mandatory...forgiveness essential.

3.I did not ask about eating..or shopping for food,I asked about earning money..and I did not say that I'd worked there..this matters not presuppose you know my motive for asking. I know the truth about eating..about what goes in ..also about about what comes out..I make my own crackers thank you..and grind my own flour so that it is fresh..I am not much of a consumer and yes I am kind of adamant where I shop..and what I buy..though I have to spend more I will buy fair trade coffee over something that exploits people/children..Coffee is a luxury..not a need.I do not buy shoes made in sweatshops no..I would rather make them myself or do a little much stuff do we really need? Can you pack up an go in an instant..say an hour..and leave everything else many times have you done this before..and not look longingly back. Just curious.

4.God began to teach me about clean work and unclean work yrs ago..Growing food was houses..caring for housebound elders was clean..but if I could not get them to eat and they only wanted me to fix them drinks all day/eve until I rolled them into bed ..was not ok..I could not help someone to kill themselves faster...even if I got to share Jesus..even working at an establishment that had an employee policy that forbade the mangers to ever praise the keep them on their toes..when I learned of it..was told to disengage..I could not support such an ungodly concept knowingly..or come under that type of authority willingly..this is the discipline that I have been asked to come under.I don't argue I obey.

5.Alot of this ties in with something the Lord has been speaking to me for decades about..the mark of the beast and what we will do when we can no longer buy or sell..about how the mark of the beast was already on the hands and foreheads of some folks(seen with spiritual eyes as a precursor to the tangible one to follow) due to what they put their hands to ..the work they were involved with..and the thoughts in their minds..what they dwelt upon...and that long before the Lord allows it to become mandatory many ignorant believers had already been duped into believing what they were doing to create finances was not to be helped..But God said that they were actually just living beyond the means that they needed to..wanting a preferred lifestyle..not being led to it..their choice..not God's..and these had been compromised..and would reject sound reasoning and logic..espscially divine logic..heavenly..with many an adamant assertion that they were in the world etc.. and so on ..some of these arguments that God said folks would use have been used here..I wonder if any of these folks have ever left house and lands and spouse and children ..or gone without a solid paycheck to put there trust in or a roof over your has the Lord taught you to trust Him for His provision...Have you ever been tested in this impotant type of training..if so then you know and God knows and all is well..but those who do not allow themselves to ever be without the security of the things.. things..and foods that you like..the amount that you want.. and clothes that you want.He showed me this..The Lord is My Shepherd..I shall not want..and If I need something He'll be sure to let me know..Unless you have walked amile in my steps need to take a few steps back and away from me especially before you accuse me for being mean or whatever else you can imagine.All right?

6. As I had touched on spiritual ( as in the real thing..Christ Jesus' )authority and the types of principalities and powers..wickedness in high places ..which some of this includes and are also known as archetypes of thinking..raising themselves up against the knowledge of God..never met a potato or tomato or ear of corn that ever raised itself up except to be eaten or dried for later use ,so no I do not need a letter that was written concerning whether to eat meat or not..and if a person is a babe in christ I would not lay a trip on them if I was given an opportunity to speak into their life concerning their job..unless God said it was crucial and priority..I do not just toss the scriptures at people willy is God's word and His to decide when and hjow it ought to be used..nbot mine to use as a weapon to bash others with..especially not to push my agenda..I am discussing here actual spiritual warfare..if you are advanced in this not understand it please..don't make guesses..I understand a great deal concerning these matters and am looking for longtime spirit filled in action..not only words..those who have participated not just debated the subject.

7. To those who are willing to investigate the subject matter at hand ..welcome and I so very much would love to hear your hearts deepest call on this..I believe these are crucial issues..that need to be brought into the light and discussed honorably.What has God been saying to you directly? What is the word of your testimony on this?Have you ever gotten that deeply into looking at this ..if not why not? this is between you and God...please understand..has God taken you through an experiance where He said..this is a shadow of what is to come..and began to address how we would not be able to barter out openly..I believe we may have much encouragement for the worried families that have not had this focus..many were duped by the pretrib notion of suffering..There are folks that God has been revealing much to,for decades ..these have suffered greatly to bring us the reality of what God has done to provide..and to the time gets closer..but untill there is the right attitude and heart in the people He will hold it back.

9.I've made many errors in my life..stupid choices in every area of life..a sinner.. been judgemental after being saved and had to live out the very thoughtless judgements I made through religiosity and legalism...I have also known what it is to impact many souls for the highest good bringing great change..God answers my prayers..but I pray what He wills or I do not pray.

10.I love books..Books have been more faithful friends to me than people..I often carried a dictionary in my pocket just so when conversations went into the carnal places..yes around believers as well I could change the channel and disengage if i could'nt gracefully leave the space..It's true I really enjoy books.and read many educational books..even some novels..history ..I read what God brings me to I love to learn whatever God gives me an interest to learn ..He is jealous for my time..I was writing a cookbook a while back..but had to leave the manuscript behind..I do not bear witness to most of what passes for much garbage today..I can open a book and turn right to the's a very cool gift..saves alot of time..but it has been this way for a long time for me..I walk through bookstores the islands I carpooled so as not to contribute so much to the oil problem..pollution etc when it was further than what work on my bike and this would be the place my ride would meet us.So I would pruse the shelves..I also love to haunt libraries..New York City has some fine libraries...and It is great that I always get to share Christ wherever I is prearranged..I just stay in God's perfect will..asking /him what He would have me do today and it unfolds perfectly..I can be in a bookstore but I ,personally, wouldn't want to be held responsible for selling the occult and lust etc. filled lies that are sold there..nor the music..don't even get me started on the selling of the gospel,our thoughts on God or intimate experience with Jesus for money..or songs He gave don't get me started on that.I especially wouldn't go there..then the tempers would fly. We will stick to the obvious lies..that everyone agrees upon..The saints of Ephesus who burned their books..a fortune in books.. unworthy books not worth the precious trees that were destroyed to make them..these saints of old..alive in Christ would stand up and shout me down if I were aligned with actually selling books of this same level.

last but not least thank you holiness..and those of you..(I will look your names again and respond if I haven't covered it here already)..please feel free to go on if inspired..who were not snotty sarcastic or just off/uninformed in judging my should see how differently your writings resonate with the presense of the Holy Spirit from those who didn't leap to conclusions...or become offended etc....makes me want to be so much more kind and compassionate..and to wait before responding maybe a whole day..before writing a response..I want to be pleasing to God and I do not need to write anything unless He releases me to do so..often I write a post here and then pray it over everyone who comes here and then I send it with my heart.yet choose not to post but delete it might cause a problem and I may not trust that it is not just me ventinting..i am in need of healing so i may be touchy..if you can't handle this not respond to me intensity experience..your opinion your anger..on and on..Jesus is what Matters here folks and He and I share all day together..we are one..He said so..I believe it..that settles it..Let us be one mind..the mind of Christ in this as in all things..He wants me to begin to trust you interact with you too ..will you help or hinder this? Thanks for your prayers.

G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

 2008/2/25 0:49Profile

 Re: Attention all pastors who have a few moments to need of your wisdom her

Hi Des. Don't you have a Pastor or husband or a man over you that you could 'counsel' with?

A Pastor 'did' answer you on this thread. Sometimes you just need to know 'who' you are addressing - besides just HIS Body.

You have posted many long posts about all of your spiritual excursions, gifts or experiences, and it's seems to most, that you're not asking for yourself - but about or for someone else.
How is it that the Holy Spirit hasn't given you the answer on this one?

It is difficult for men and Pastors on a Board to answer a woman who is not in their congregation. It puts them in a place that is very uncomfortable and many Pastors don't have time to read such lengthy posts anyway.

I just assume with all the many experiences that you've told us all about here - that you could easily get your own God given 'personal conviction' about this and not even need such a simple question to cause this much striving.

Please understand that men have a hard enough time answering women on here. Nonetheless Pastors. I only know because I was married to one. And have many Pastors who are our friends.

Just pray about it.


 2008/2/25 1:29

Joined: 2008/2/24
Posts: 5


Praise God for the Blood of Jesus!
I thank God that he allowed me to escape the pollutions of this world! Escape the bondage of sin, self, and love of money. Filled me with the Holy Ghost to equip me with discernment in these last days. That we may see light and darkness. That we may flee the entrapment of this present evil world. That we may seek those things that are above, and not these carnel things below. He hath given me power to give as it has been given, the power to NOT lay up in this world, but to lay up in heaven. He has given me insight to not extend myself so much that I do not have time for THE BODY. I too have left houses, lands, jobs, business, family, friends, and loved ones for the gospel's sake. I too have lived a life of trusting in God. Wether it be for food, clothing, healing, etc. The just shall live by faith. A life that chooses to believe God, despite what I see, feel, and/or hear. This type of life should be our goal, EVEN IN AMERICA. We are spoiled rotten. We get what we want even if we have to load up credit cards. We are increased with much goods, and have need of nothing! May God have mercy on me, you, and America. Because of this we become quick to judge anything or anybody that chooses to go against the grain of American Christianty. May God give us all a boldness to do so! In all we do and all we say, let us stand for truth. Allow the word of God to penetrate our hard hearts, and change us not in word only, but in DEED. We are quick to judge another man when it offend us. Maybe we are doing something that is questionable? Maybe somebody's light is reveling our darkness? Praise God, LET IT BE SO!!! For the Scriptures say "IRON SHARPENETH IRON; SO A MAN SHARPENETH THE COUNTENANCE OF HIS FRIEND" Dear sister we need each other to sharpen one another. There is a famine in this country for men speaking God's voice. May we have ears to hear, hearts to obey, and feet to follow. May we all come out from among them and be seperate! O dear sister, I am lifting you up in prayer. Stand fast on truth. Gird your life with a meek and quiet spirit. Pray always. Be faithful to the household of faith. God speed.

A minister, preacher, and pastor of the gospel. :-D

 2008/2/25 2:31Profile


It appears this thread has been your "Intro".
Have you checked out all the Sermons offered here "holiness"?

I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised and also to know that there are not a few Pastors, Teachers, Evangelists, Prophets, Apostles - all True Men of GOD here that already agree with the latter section of your post - not to mention the Messages posted by the Owner of this massive site and the Moderators.

Yes, you will find that Iron certainly does sharpen iron here. Bless GOD!!!

Enjoy your stay also.

 2008/2/25 4:17

Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777

 Re: How to deal with pop-religion book stores

it is my desire to interact with the holy patient folks on this forum.

I doubt that I would meet your requirements as one worthy of offering thoughts on this matter. You see, I can be anything but holy or patient! I’m not kidding!! God is constantly convicting me of vile attitudes. I am prone to grumbling about things that I can do nothing about – and Christian book stores is on my top-ten list. Just two days ago I told a Christian friend: “Don’t buy anything at the Christian book stores. It’s mostly all pop religion any more.” But let’s also admit, if you and I are not the managers of Christian book stores and we don’t work there, then maybe God hasn’t given us the calling to deal with that issue.

There is one easy solution to the problem: Buy books off the net!” There’s a gold mine of fabulous Christian literature out there!

But, I don’t think your main concern is about the availability of good Christian books. It seems to be addressed towards the book stores themselves.

I believe that there is something we can do! In fact, just yesterday at church I shared what God has been teaching me about living in the light of God. I am still being convicted by my own words! We are called to be a light in the darkness! When people see God’s light lived out in his children, they will glorify God.

Maybe you and I just have to leave the book stores alone, because we can’t do anything about them anyway. We need to learn what it means to shine much brighter, not by grumbling about the darkness or pointing fingers at all the bad stuff, (though we can’t deny it), but by learning what it means to shine brighter in the life setting where God has put us – our family, neighbors, church, etc.
Set a good example by reading good stuff yourself. It’s powerful.

Here’s a good example. Some time ago one of the posters here on SI quoted from a book by Larry Crabb: “The Pressure’s Off” (It's about living in the New Covenant Hope) I ordered it, read it, and was so blessed that I ordered more and handed them out. Yesterday one of the recipients asked me: “Where can I get more of those books. I want to buy some and pass them on to some friends.” Now, that SIer will never know how much his little post has sparked a fire around here.

“It only takes a spark to get a fire going…”



 2008/2/25 8:54Profile



destinysweet wrote:
jgraves..are you a pastor?..There are plenty of ways to make a living that are positive and serve to meet mankind's needs without sin..please..I'm asking for those who are elders and pastors here..and prefer prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit..not opinions..thanks

Destiny, just check out jgraves' profile, under "Occupation".

In any case, why are you asking questions only of pastors and elders? Do you really believe that only those of a certain status are qualified to answer your question.

Do you really believe that all pastors and elders are holier or more knowledgeable than anyone else?

in Him


PS It seems you [i]have[/i] given me permission to post here as I'm an ex Presbyterian minister ;-) (or will an "Ex" not do?)

 2008/2/25 12:17



jgraves11 wrote:
I think you should read Romans 13 and 14, this is a stick subject just like what Paul deals with in these two chapters. He basically says that if it offends your conscience then you dont need to do it. on the other hand he said it is lawful to eat meet sacrificed to idols. Couldnt you use this as an oppurtunity to point those who are lost to Christ? I dont see how you could work anywhere that doesnt make a profit from some sort of sin. Much more can be said of this, the main thing I would be concerned with is your own spiritual walk,keep yourself in such a way as to not be tempted by the lies within this bookstore. anyway I hope this helps you some.

Amen, good advice.

Two other relevant scriptures are:

Joh 17:15[color=990000] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.[/color]

And 1Corinthians 5:9-11
[color=990000]9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. [/color]

These, together with Romans 13 and 14, give the general spiritual principles, and apply not only to bookshops.

Another example is, should one go to a doctor who isn't a Christian?

In my home town that would have been difficult! There was a locum who visited once, but I don't know of any regular Christian doctors in thee whole town. Most of them seemed to be Indian in latter years! My own doctor was a Sikh, but he was an OK doctor, and apart from wearing a turban, didn't push his religion, he was just a medical doctor. But there was another who was his partner for a while, but then set up on his own, who I would never go to when I realised what he was like. He was a Hindu, and his surgery (Office) had idolatrous pictures everywhere, and even a "god shelf", and a crucifix hanging up over the reception desk, and a huge painting of his Guru ("Baba..." something) dressed in glowing red robes and a beatific smile on the waiting-room wall!

I went a couple of times to take a friend, whose doctor he was, and had to go outside, it was so horrible - the spiritual atmosphere in that waiting room was sickening.

So I suppose every case has to be taken "on merit", there are no easy answers.



 2008/2/25 12:35



LittleGift wrote:

destinysweet wrote:
jgraves..are you a pastor?..There are plenty of ways to make a living that are positive and serve to meet mankind's needs without sin..please..I'm asking for those who are elders and pastors here..and prefer prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit..not opinions..thanks

Destiny, just check out jgraves' profile, under "Occupation".

In any case, why are you asking questions only of pastors and elders? Do you really believe that only those of a certain status are qualified to answer your question.

Do you really believe that all pastors and elders are holier or more knowledgeable than anyone else?

in Him


PS It seems you [i]have[/i] given me permission to post here as I'm an ex Presbyterian minister ;-) (or will an "Ex" not do?)

I hope these comments didn't come over as too harsh.

When I was a minister, I used to say that people shouldn't call anyone "Reverand" except the Lord Himself, because one of the Psalms says, "Holy and reverend is his name"

I certainly never felt the slightest bit holy or reverend!


 2008/2/25 12:41

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