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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do these scripture describe satan?

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rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: Do these scripture describe satan?

And He lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor for yours is the kingdom of God.KJV

As you all know exalted is the apposite of lowly. An image of one self, fashioned in gold is worthy of worship to people with out understanding. People who worship starlets that go on to fame and fortune even take political advice from them, buy the toys they indorse, raise their children according to advice in the books they publish.

Who did our Lord make His grave with, when the curse of the law was carried out on Him for our sins?

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He hath no form nor comeliness and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief. And we hid as it were our faces from him, he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted, but he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief.[color=0000FF] When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand[/color] He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.KJV

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.KJV

Feeding goats and persuading is a proven waste of time, but it does give the self righteous something to do and a way to exalt themselves and rob God of His praise and glory.

Eddie


_________________
Eddie

 2008/2/27 9:09Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Do these scripture describe satan?

The [u]underlined[/u] and the [color=0033CC]blue[/color] and the [b]Bold[/b] are referanced to the devil.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Rev 17:8[/b] The beast that you saw was, and is not; and [u]shall ascend out of the bottomless pit[/u], and [color=0033CC]go into perdition[/color]: and they that dwell on the earth [b]shall wonder[/b], whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Ref. Rev 20:3 And cast him into [u]the bottomless pit[/u], and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must [u]be loosed a little season[/u](shall ascend out of the bottomless pit).
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and [color=0033CC]shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever[/color]. (and go into perdition)


[b]Isa 14:10[/b] All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? Are you become like unto us? ([b]shall wonder[/b])

 2008/2/27 9:34Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Warrior of God what's the root of your worry??

i. The New Testament is clear about Satan/ or more frequently the Devil or a numerous other names that are given to the evil one.... It is also clear that he has fallen from grace.
Jesus himself (who is God) says:
"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven".
Another crucial point is made in Revelation 12:7-9.
"And there was a war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place heaven.
The great dragon was hurled down - that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him.

and also Revelation 20:2: "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil or Satan and bound him for a thousand years.

*Conclusion:
It is most likely that the new testament writers had those OT passages (Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28) in mind (which you now doubt is describing Satan), when they wrote the examples above. When the NT was written down there was only one holy scripture - the hebrew bible which was interpreted in the light of God's Spirit.

ii. Concerning Isaiah and Ezekiel or the author/authors which jotted these mythos down: were writning under the influence of the Spirit of God. Contextual and political circumstances meet here with the reality of the spiritual world. In that case we can see short hints of how Lucifer became the devil.

iii. The history of Christian interpretation of these OT passages (and others aswell) is pretty much in agreement (i.e. that these are references to the fall from grace aswell as prophetic reference to Satans final destination).

iv. Concerning the Cherub: Youve mentioned: "Pharaoh the great dragon" in Ezekiel 29:3. However the correct translation is rather Pharaoh you great monster or even: Pharao the the crocodile lying among your streams (the context describes the Nile). However the epithet Cherub in chap. 28 is odd since it describes a heavenly being (and not a King in strict sense).

iv. Concerning the garden of eden I think you are quite right. OT has a lot of references to the garden in like manner as you have described it. However in Hezekiel 28 it is different:

The book of Wisdom (among the Catholics and Ortodox is considered canonical)which predates the NT with a couple of hundred years and so - has the oldest reference we've got
that the devil is equivalent with the snake in the garden of eden(Wisdom 2:24). This means that the tradition of connecting Satan with the garden of eden is old. That also means that Hezikiel 28:13ff in the light of the prophetic is a reference to this Satan (and at the same time to the contextual King of Tyros).

V. And finally a theological point...
a. The political and historical changes that takes place in the OT is directed and in some strange sense predestinated by God. Behind the historical curtain likewise Satan operates either in opposition to God or running God's punishing errands (such as the Angel of Death and so on).
b. Kings like Tyros, and Pharao has in the patristic litterature always been understood as a type of the devil (the devil in disguise).

Sincerely
Magnus :-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2008/2/27 12:34Profile









 Re:

Thank you Magnus.


Pardon the Edit to add: Magnus - just to clarify the typos - the book is Ezekiel, for any new converts.
John 14:6 - Praise the LORD.

 2008/2/27 13:56
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Isaiah 14 is describing the work of Satan who is the father of King Belshazzar. If you remember the son of Nebuchadnezzar was given this by Daniel...Mene, Mene, Tekel, Parsin. At this point God brought the Medes and Persians against King Belshazzar to destroy his kingdom. This is what Isaiah 14 is prophesying here.

In Scripture we find that there are always two kingdoms. The kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. Abel was a child of God and Cain was a child of Satan...

This aspect is described in Genesis 3:15, where God declares to Satan that there will be enmity between Satan and the woman and between his children and the woman's children....(between "your seed and the woman's Seed."

In Isaiah 14 we find that the attributes of Belshazzar and Lucifer are one. The seed of Lucifer has been conformed into the image of Lucifer. Both Belshazzar and Lucifer will have the same desires and the same manifestations or fruits of their actions.

There is no dualism. It is who our father is, that determines the fruit of our lives.

Likewise those who are born of the woman begin to resemble the Seed. This is the predestined work of God in those who live by faith in Jesus Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/2/27 15:18Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I find here a plethora of information concerning this topic. And it seems as though this is not an old subject. I understand some of the arguments that you all are making and I will definitely look at this more deeply. My conclusion for now, Isaiah 14 and Ezekial speak of exactly who they are supposed to speak about. If there is something prophetic, it is more than likely for the antichrist which is the embodiment of Satan. If he then being the embodiment, then more than likely he will carry some of the attributes of Satan himself. I do not see though any reference that would tie the name Lucifer to Satan himself simply because of the context.

Many of you pointed out scripture about Satan falling from heaven and also Revelation as a reference as well. These are great references that I will take into consideration as I take time to balance and find meaning behind them.

Some of you by the way you write seem concerned that debating this subjet denies Satans plan or existance (at least that is what is implied). I think you have plenty about Satan without Isaiah or Ezekial as a reference. I have to point out that Satan TRANSFORMS himself as an angel of light. Why would he have to trasnsform if nothing about himself changed? Just a thought...

If this thread continues and I have more information, I will let you guys know and perhaps we can continue with this debate. Have a good night.

 2008/2/27 17:33Profile
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I recommend this site for the supposed claim that jesus is another copy cat religion.

That aside, he has some real good info concerning this topic. Enjoy.

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/heylucy.html

 2008/2/27 18:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:

warriorofgod wrote:
I recommend this site for the supposed claim that jesus is another copy cat religion.



Brother, could you explain this ?


 2008/2/27 18:21
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

He reigns,

Have you ever heard of people saying that Jesus supposedly was just conjured up from other savior gods? Well this site very carefully looks at the tales and fables of some of these gods that Jesus supposedly copied and does a very good job at refuting that argument. This is a good site.

 2008/2/29 1:24Profile





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