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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do these scripture describe satan?

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warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Do these scripture describe satan?

I am greatly distressed. I need some help from you all. I do not see any direct reference to satan found in Isaiah 14 nor in Ezekiel 28. I find that if I read it without the presupposition that it is supposedly satan, it makes no connection to him. Help me please.
I need resources too. I know about the mention of cherub, but this is not any different when you call Pharaoh the great dragon in Ezekiel 29:3. I realize the the "being in eden" portion but that doesn't prove anything either since eden was symbolic of wealth and pleasure. I need a reason to be believe that this was talking about satan because for a long time i was lead to believe that it did. Please help. :-?

 2008/2/23 9:46Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Do these scripture describe satan?

isa; 14;12 " O Lucifer son of the morning"

Am I missing something here?



David

 2008/2/23 11:02Profile
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 Re:

Lucifer, Satan, Dragon, Accuser of the Brethren, Adversary, Devil. The new testament itself is "full" of these references to our true enemy of our souls.

The jewish people had a concept of the devil in their mindset and belief.


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 2008/2/23 11:05Profile
warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Lucifer was taken from the Latin. It wasn't a term that the Hebrews used. In fact that hebrew word used is Haylel which means "spreading brightness". We use the term Lucifer to describe satan but if you remove that presupposition, what do you have to ensure that was who the scripture was talking about. In context as I have said before, it is talking to about a king.

 2008/2/23 11:09Profile
warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
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 Re:

 2008/2/23 11:10Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Do these scripture describe satan?

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;




stick to what you know. There is no need to make this something else.

The context makes it clear this has to be satan



David

 2008/2/23 11:49Profile
warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Please forgive me since this kind of subject has not been simple for me. Sticking to what I know has been the norm until I find information that causes me to think. The context does not make room for Satan. It can describe him if we so chose to use it that way, but if you start in the beginning of that chapter, who is the author speaking of? King of babylon. As you can see in verse 16 it was talking about a man. Why does this portion of scripture talk about satan and then it moves back to the king? When you read it, it clearly loses continuity when you interpret it like that. At what verse does it begin to STOP talking about Satan? Who gets to decide? At what verse does it begin to talk about Satan? This is not sarcasm. These are question even you yourself have asked about certain portions of scripture but considering that this scripture is "widely excepted" to talk about satan we don't think twice about it.

As I have said before, Lucifer was the name associated with satan, but it was not that way for the Hebrews. Read my previous post. Please continuing sharpening with me. I do seek the truth and the correct interpretation of the scriptures. I want to be able to bounce my points off of you to see what you would say, so that i can get some clarity on this thank you very much.

 2008/2/23 12:08Profile
mamaluk
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Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re:

Brother David,

Strange you brought this up, for now I am too in doubt of this. I recently came across something A.Pink wrote, really can't remember where, to the effect that Lucifer, may not actually be satan himself, though he had long been assumed the same as Satan!?

(edit: sorry Warriorofgod, posted at the same time)

mamaluk


 2008/2/23 12:08Profile
warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Please let me know what you find. This is no way a heretical thing. I seek the truth on how to interpret scripture. There are other arguments I want to propose concerning this subject but I want to see how others respond first so that I can test these scriptures with others understanding.

 2008/2/23 12:19Profile
warriorofgod
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Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

who is david?

 2008/2/23 12:20Profile





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