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Discussion Forum : General Topics : final goodbye to SI

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BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re: final goodbye to SI

I think one of the biggest issues we have as Christians is that we love to play Judge and Jury. Saul (Paul) did it then, and many of you (many of us) still to this day do it. Interestingly enough, many of you (many of us) spend a good portion of the day on a forum full of Christians, judging one another rather then praying and showing Christ-like concern for the truly lost and truly dying.

Things like,

Quote:
"What should we do if not to defend the Gospel with a passion?"

and,
Quote:
"And the truth is that what Sharon is preaching IS a fake gospel. As with ALL other fake gospels, this one belongs in the garbage with the rest."

and
Quote:
"When a brother Nile was in doubting times of the truth and was introduced in a Satan's doctrines, wildbranch, came and supported him and helping him for getting away for the truth and establishing in error. This is a terrible sin."

are being said in this forum and other forums like-wise. The problem lies in the words we say and write. Many of you, as just shown in some of these quotes, are playing Judge and Jury, without considering your own consequence and sin.

We can have a passion for God, and for Scripture, but just as was Saul (Paul), we are not to be the Judge and Jury.

I agree with this statement,
Quote:
"gospel IS offensive to those that don't believe in its truth."

but let's let the Scriptures speak for itself, rather then adding our judgemental and sinful two-cents along-side these Scriptures that we present to be Truth.

Truth sets us free, and if we can't stand on that alone, what do we have any business doing trying to [u]force[/u] people what they should and should not believe?

I find it odd that so many of you (so many of us) bicker and argue back and forth over Scripture. We all (you all) fight using Scripture. It's so ironic. You say, "Scripture says this, "...," and someone will ARGUE back, "well Scripture says this, "..." and this, "...," and this is what I believe, "..." and I'M RIGHT because of what this Scripture, "..." says.

It's astounding that we are Christians on a forum and are fighting against one another quoting Scriptures as our defense mechanism to prove one another being wrong.

AGAIN, we ARE NOT Judge, nor Jury. It's one thing to quote Scripture and share your viewpoint in a Christ-like and loving, and peaceful manner, but it's another thing to quote Scipture and say that a certian someone may very well be going to hell and taking souls with them, and condemning them based on your own personal viewpoint of Scripture.

I can just see God looking down upon this site of thousands of forums and being saddend and dis-heartend at the sight of us "condemning each other to hell" based upon our own personal viewpoint and belief of Scripture.

To say,
Quote:
"We will be responsible for allowing her for spreading them."

is completely in error. This is compeletely between her and God. If she is wrong, she will be held in error, not us. Now, in saying this, we are responsible for bringing forth the Truth of Scripture and sharing it. We as shepherds and disciples are responsible for tending to the lost sheep so that they may be found, but it would be an utter error on our part to slaughter the lost sheep, and expect us to be in right standing with God, much less expect the lost sheep to understand God if we've already slaughtered them.

Someone else said,
Quote:
"Be zealous for the truth brother, be zealous and burn for it, otherwise it is dangerous."



It's one thing to be zealous for the truth, and zealous we should be, but to say this on a forum implied to one's justification and reasoning for condemning and judging someone for their differences, or albeit, misunderstandings of Scripture is completely in error.

Now, in saying all this, I do believe because of all the overwhelming evidence all throughout Scripture, both in the Old and New Testament, that Wildbranch has a misunderstanding of who God is and what He is capable of being (i.e. both God and man through Jesus Christ.) However, if the Scripture that is laid out before her in her daily reading, or the Scripture that we provide as evidence to this truth does not shed light upon her misunderstanding, then we will not be held responsible for whatever God says to her, at the judgement seat. We should be concerned for our own actions and what God may, or may not say to our own selves at the Judgement seat.

Trust me, it doesn't work for God's benefit, nor our benefit, at the time of judgement, if we have spent our lives judging one another and sharing in harsh words, rather than lifting one another up, showing compassion, love, respect, mercy, grace, understanding and etc.

If someone is in the wrong, we should be praying for them, and praying for ourselves, that our hearts are right, true, pure, and holy.



** you know, it's interesting; I too, use to come on here all the time, and I don't so much anymore. When I first found this site, I was overjoyed! I was ecstatic! "I had finally found a site" where some of today's Christians have a common bond with the likes of some of "the greats" (i.e. Tozer, Ravenhill etc.) and seeking revival and the idea of coming back to a place of true Christianity that once was. A place where there was an understanding that there is too much of the fake, self-imaging, self-gratifying, self-indulging crud going on in the church today amongst the pastors, leadership, and congregation, and that we must put God back in church.

You know, we fight and we argue and we bicker, and we complain that God needs to be put back in our schools and so forth, in the meantime we overlook the fact that through our own actions much of God is being taken out of our churches and He's certianly having less effect in our own lives with the conversations we have on here and other places.

Even on these forums I see that most Christians on here live to please one's own self rather than living up to the meaning of the term: Christian (little Christ), and being slaves to Christ and slaves to righteousness.

Think upon this, if you will: Considering all the criticising, judgement, condemnation, and bashing and nashing of teeth that goes on here in these forums, do you think Jesus, Tozer, Ravenhill, Poonen, Moses, Daniel, David, Paul, Peter, James, John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Ruth, Esther, Elisha, Elijah, or anyone else who lived a life worthy in God's eyes, would be caught on here doing what many, if a dare say, "most" of you do on here? I think not.

It's such a shame to see that many of us, here on these forums, are partipating in the "deadening of the church."

It saddens me that Wildbranch can't be welcomed here with open arms. Instead she has to be criticized and judged in such an un-Christ-like manner that she is leaving. This says a lot about you all, and this says alot about where you stand with Christ (which, I hate to say, is not by His side).

:-(

Wildbranch, it is such a down-right shame that you have been treated in such ways that Christ is, and would be, appalled at. I pray that you would find it in your heart to forgive the unChrist-like immaturity that has been displayed to you on these forums.

 2008/2/16 9:36Profile









 Re:

Thank you TearsOfJoy for your loving rebuke. :-)

Thank you Micca for your loving rebuke as well. :-)

Quote:
The issue here lies in that Sharon has an agenda to debunk the truth of the Gospel

Of a truth brethren I had no idea that she had an agenda. This is the only thread that I have seen her handle in and before that I haven't seen her in any other thread with an agenda to debunk the gospel.

I was commenting on her belief in that Jesus is the Son of God. I was agreeing with her that that is biblically acceptable. If she has another motive in placing Jesus in this lower standing and not placing Him where He is seated at the right hand of the Majesty on high, then I too agree with you all. This is an issue that needs to be addressed and upheld if we are to maintain the integrity of the gospel message.

I do know that those who hold to the Torah, can't stand Paul. So they only accept portions of the New Testament. Even if they accept the 4 gospels. John writes in John 1:1
Quote:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, [b]and the Word was God[/b].John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.John 1:14 [b]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us[/b], (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It's clear here, you can't get away from it.

Quote:
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Sharon, you had said that you agree with Jesus in that Peter said that He is the Son of God. Jesus also made another declaration on His deity.
Quote:
John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that [b]I am[/b] [i]he[/i].

The "he" is in Italics, it was added by the translators, it's not in the original Greek. It originally reads, "I AM".

Another example of Christ Deity is:
Quote:
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, [b]I am[/b] [i]he[/i]. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, [b]I am[/b] [i]he[/i], they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Why do you think they fell backwards?

Here is another declaration of the deity of Christ,
Quote:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, [b]The mighty God[/b], The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

You can't get any planer than this.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg there is much more in both the Old and New Testaments that reveals Jesus Christ. If you read the Torah, and if you can't see Jesus Christ through out it's pages your blind.

 2008/2/16 9:58
nowhr2hide
Member



Joined: 2007/11/6
Posts: 191
Australia

 Re:

14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against [u][b]quarrelling about words; it[/b][/u]is of no value, and [b]only ruins those who listen[/b]. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16[b]Avoid godless chatter[/b], because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching [u][b]will spread like gangrene[/b][/u]. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have [b]wandered away from the truth[/b]. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless,[u][b] God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription:[/u][/b] [b]"The Lord knows those who are his,"[a] and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."[/b]


_________________
Claudette

 2008/2/16 10:10Profile
nowhr2hide
Member



Joined: 2007/11/6
Posts: 191
Australia

 Re:

20[b]In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble[/]. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy,[b] useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work[/].

22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23[u][b]Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels[/b][/u]. 24And the Lord's [b]servant must not quarrel[/b]; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.


_________________
Claudette

 2008/2/16 10:22Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

nowhr2hide wrote:
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against [u][b]quarrelling about words; it[/b][/u]is of no value, and [b]only ruins those who listen[/b]. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16[b]Avoid godless chatter[/b], because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching [u][b]will spread like gangrene[/b][/u]. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have [b]wandered away from the truth[/b]. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless,[u][b] God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription:[/u][/b] [b]"The Lord knows those who are his,"[a] and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."[/b]




This is a great post and so was Ben's and I tried to say somewhat the same here many times in my own words to no avail but getting barked at by someone, but these forums can be like a drug to some folks, I know been there done that bought the shirt, but to see a so called Christian forum with saying some of the things said here wow!well I just write it off to this scripture Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Regardless of what one believes or says In a world full of fear, Christians need to share the love of God with others, and let them know the love, hope, and salvation that is in Christ. Now back to my vacation. :-)

Best advise I can give is a short vacation away really does work, my stress level is in the negative since my short vacation from here. :-P


_________________
Bill

 2008/2/16 10:24Profile
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Compliments, I highly respect you and appreciate your posts here. I just want to make some comments on your arguments for the trinity. It's not my goal to dissuade you from your belief in the trinity, but to hopefully show you that when you get down and dirty, the issue is not as clear as it looks.

Quote:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It's clear here, you can't get away from it.



1) Do a case study on the word "logos". If you use the word as it is consitently used throughout the New Testament, John 1:1-3 does not support the trinity. Also, the "he" in John 1:2-3 was not put there until recent times. Look at the Geneva Bible, no "he". I'm just asking you to realize that there are other interpretations which are [i]not[/i] blatently dishonest and which do not suppor the trinity. I'm not supporting either position, but I am saying there is a case to be made on each side - including the unitarian postion - a case which I feel most here are not willing to honestly look at and understand.

Quote:
John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

The "he" is in Italics, it was added by the translators, it's not in the original Greek. It originally reads, "I AM".



Doesn't this argument fall to pieces when we realize that Jesus is not the only person in the New Testament to utter the same exact words "I AM" without the [i]he[/i]? It is no big thing that there is no he - that is just the way the greek grammer works.

Quote:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

You can't get any planer than this.



But...1) Jesus is not the only one to be called "God" in the Old Testament, 2) Jesus is not called "YHWH" which would really say he is God, 3) the New Testament does not say this refers to Jesus, and 4) the context implies this passage is not refering to Jesus, a fact which many Christian scholars will attest to.

It could be a lot clearer for me.

Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2008/2/16 10:52Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7527
Mississippi

 Re:

One thing we were taught at CPC - in our training to be counselors - is to not take things personal. And this has wide applications.

When one shares the pure Word, you put a lot of it into your post, right? A lot of mental energy. Then when someone else does not appreciate your post, you feel bad, like you were slapped. The reality is that when you share the Word, it will usually attract some opposition somewhere. If the opposition is directed to you personally, that will give one a run for his money, but if it is against the Word, it is against God and we are not to experience slighted because this belongs to God: it is not my idea, it is God's. Having said that, one must be extremely careful to not quote scripture out of context and try to make it say something different from its original intention. This is how cults get started and what fuels their fire.

The short of the long is to allow the Holy Spirit to direct our fingers and that becomes a challenge to us - to ME. I have had to delete posts that when finished I did not sense the pleasure of the LORD with it! And even when that happens it does not mean everyone will like it! A body also needs to harness his emotions so they will not get hurt.

My opinion - like it or not! lol

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/2/16 11:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
23[b]Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.




Galatians 2:3-5


3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

5To whom we gave place by subjection, [u][b]no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.[/b][/u]

Does anyone realize PAUL was beheaded, because of the Lawyers...because he would not compromise the Gospel of Grace.

There is more here to what Sharon is teaching than her denying the Deity of Christ. Because this denial brings in the LAW what is exactly what Sharon and company are teaching here.

Those verses are not out of Galatians, and Paul would never instruct Timothy to compromise the Gospel of Grace...because Paul never did himself....ending up how many times in prison???? I'm sure if Paul had just backed away with a coke and a smile, the concision would have left him alone.

We need to discern the difference between compromise and just foolish questions. The CROSS and the defense of the Gospel does not fall into the category of FOOLISH Questions.

What would Antipas say about all of this??

Love in Christ
Katy

 2008/2/16 11:10
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

See some folks just fly right by the meat of the message that was just wrote in the past few posts, it's not the agreements or disagreements on the scriptures, it's the down right low blows and the bickering, but as I said, the ones that won't listen "won't" and the ones that will listen "will" only God can change people but sometimes these forums sure does make his job harder. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2008/2/16 11:41Profile









 Re:

Nile said:

Quote:
It's not my goal to dissuade you from your belief in the trinity

Who said that I was Trinitarian? :-o

 2008/2/16 13:35





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