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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : We need to cover head covering

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PraiseB2God
Member



Joined: 2008/2/14
Posts: 2


 Re:

Well, I am also female and I have to say what caught my attention was this comment, "I recently convinced my wife and daughter about it and they practise it since."

I guess this bothers me because you had to convince her to do it. The Word of God was not enough? Don’t get me wrong, I understand the man is to be the head of the household, but if you are just convincing her to do it and its not something that she is convicted of, then what purpose does it serve? I have absolutely no problem with women who wear head coverings but only if its for the right reason. I have seen plenty of women who "look right" on the outside (head covering, dress, long hair...) but they are nasty and bitter on the inside. Maybe its because they are doing something that they feel forced into?

A few months ago I was convicted to start wearing skirts instead of pants. This was something that the Lord had to show me and convict me of. No amount of outside influence could ultimately convince me that it was what I was supposed to do. There were many times that I was tempted to, but now looking back I know that it would have just been a burden. Since I decided to follow the Lords plan for my life, I LOVE it! I love wearing skirts and I cant imagine ever going back to pants! You couldn’t have convinced me of this a year ago.

But the fact that I was convicted of this, doesn’t mean that I think every woman MUST wear skirts. I believe that a woman should be modest and if she can do that in pants then that is wonderful. I don’t believe that wearing pants makes a woman less godly or spiritual and by no means do I think that by me wearing skirts am I more spiritual. What makes me closer to my Savior is when I do what He tells me to do. Doing what someone else tells me is right, when I have no conviction of it, just causes bitterness and legalism.

That’s my two cents.

 2008/2/14 1:51Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

I would ask that before any man asks or tells there wife and daughters to submit to the head covering doctrine.

That they should try it out for a 3 months.

Don't be wearing a hat or anything else that is normally on your head. It has to be a cloth.

Just use a cloth say 6" x 6" you are allowed to get any colour and can have a nice pattern if you so desire.

You must put it on in the morning when you get up and take it of before you go to bed.

I am only asking that you do this out of Love for your Wife and Daughters.

Eph 5:28-29 Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his own wife loveth himself: for no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as Christ also the church;

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord.

That you would be a true leader in house and say do as I do, not as I say. Be a example to them as Christ was a example to you.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/14 5:33Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi murrcolr


No, I understand that Paul is only talking about the public Christian meetings, where prayer and prophesy takes place, not in general.

Philip

 2008/2/14 7:35Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hello PraiseB2God,

I am glad some ladies finally come forward to discuss this.

I did not command my wife, but we discussed it.
Yes, I took the initiative after the revelation of this truth to me. I would not have done God justice if I had not shared this truth with her.
It has to be explained because it goes absolutely against the grain of our surrounding postmodern world and apostate temporary Christianity. Demanding it whithout explanation would perhaps make her resentful and she would not know how to respond when ridiculed. So far no one has ridiculed her about it, praise God.

My wife understands it and she has a witness of the Spirit about it which I am very glad about.
We are actually in the midst of re-assessing our whole marriage relationship under God. Her head covering in meetings does not elevate me to a superior standing over her. On the contrary, her submission symbolized and expressed in head covering reminds me of my great responsibility to be a godly and caring husband to her. God will call me to account how I have treated her during our earthly life. I will be a miserable hypocrite if I do not live up to this.

Philip

 2008/2/14 8:25Profile









 Re:

I reiterate it again, if you take the head covering as a means to obtain righteousness before God, Christ is no longer the object of our faith/and or salvation. However, if it's done because of conscience sake and you feel that God is speaking to you regarding it, then be blessed in it.

Righteousness is not a result of our actions, righteousness is a state of being that only comes by putting our faith in Jesus Christ. We can do righteous deeds, but our deeds are not a merit to obtain the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus our LORD; that is freely given by those who put their trust in Him.

God Bless you as you obey the LORD.

 2008/2/14 9:56
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Please read this in depth as it will set you free if your open.

THE VEIL
According to Rabbi Dr. Menachem M. Brayer (Professor of Biblical Literature at Yeshiva University) in his book, The Jewish woman in Rabbinic literature, it was the custom of Jewish women to go out in public with a head covering which, sometimes, even covered the whole face leaving one eye free. He quotes some famous ancient Rabbis saying," It is not like the daughters of Israel to walk out with heads uncovered" and "Cursed be the man who lets the hair of his wife be seen a woman who exposes her hair for self-adornment brings poverty." Rabbinic law forbids the recitation of blessings or prayers in the presence of a bareheaded married woman since uncovering the woman's hair is considered "nudity". Dr. Brayer also mentions that "During the Tannaitic period the Jewish woman's failure to cover her head was considered an affront to her modesty. When her head was uncovered she might be fined four hundred zuzim for this offense." Dr. Brayer also explains that veil of the Jewish woman was not always considered a sign of modesty. Sometimes, the veil symbolized a state of distinction and luxury rather than modesty. The veil personified the dignity and superiority of noble women. It also represented a woman's inaccessibility as a sanctified possession of her husband.

So we can see out of this extract from a book that in the Jewish Tradition women wore veils.

1Cor 11:2 Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you.

Tradition meaning: The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

1Cor 11:5 But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven.

If the woman is unveiled it the same as if she was shaven this is what the scripture say.

1Cor 11:6 For if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it is a shame to a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.

Same thing here if the woman is unveiled let her be shorn but if it a shame let her be veiled.

1Cor 11:13 Judge ye (1) in yourselves: is it seemly that a woman pray unto God unveiled?

Paul asks Judge for yourself is right that a woman pray to God unveiled.

1Cor 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

Another question what does nature teach us.

1Cor 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

1. A woman has long hair.
2. It is a Glory to her.
3. Her hair is given as a covering.

Paul is telling these people it’s not right for a women head to be uncovered. Nature tells you that her head should be covered. [b]God in his wisdom has already taken care of it by giving her a covering her hair it's her covering[/b]. Does not nature teach us that as Paul shows. [b]Paul is telling us women don't have to wear veils like in the Jewish Tradition[/b].

1Pet 3:1-2 In like manner, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, even if any obey not the word, they may without the word be gained by the behavior of their wives beholding your chaste behavior coupled with fear.

1Pet 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel;

Peter says let it not be a outward adorning of braided hair, jewels, gold or apparel (Veils).

1Pet 3:4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Let the adorning be of the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which in God sight is more costly than Gold. God looks at the heart.

Jesus said of the Pharisee they would strain at a gnat, but then swallow a camel.

In other words, they majored on minor points. They made a big deal about things that really didn't matter.

Women if are reading this and any man thinking about this you don’t have to it. The covering for a women is her hair. Paul tells us this in scripture the very same ones the Devil has tried to use as bondage.

Narrowpath your are Pharisee and a blind man may you some day find the truth out.

2Cor 3:17-18 Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

I am glad I got involved in this thread I can know praise God that he is a good and frees us from bondage.

My eyes are know fully open to this false teaching of veiling your women and saying it's God.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/14 10:42Profile
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 326


 Re:


Quote:
I am glad I got involved in this thread I can know praise God that he is a good and frees us from bondage.



But is this bondage?

Is it not just guidance as to how to make the assembly of God's people more orderly i.e. reflecting God's order (headship).

Look at the instruction Paul gives as regards how the gift of tongues should be managed in the assembly for example.

If a believer sees the practise of head covering as bondage I guess they're better off not practising it. But I believe this will be to their own personal loss and to their assemblies.

I agree that there are more important things to consider in our Christian walk than splitting hairs over head covering, but I just believe it's a dying practice and it's a sad loss because the real tragedy is the headship principle is dying with it.


_________________
David

 2008/2/14 11:29Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

As a sister in Christ I have gone back and forth about responding to this thread but feel led to so here goes. My real concern with the way this is being debated is because of statements such as these:

______________________________________
I agree that there are more important things to consider in our Christian walk than splitting hairs over head covering, but I just believe it's a dying practice and it's a sad loss because the real tragedy is the headship principle is dying with it.
_______________________________________________

A women worshipping God under the veil states that the will listen to God and to her husband, rather than the snake. She also states that she does not need to seek attention by displaying beautifully braided, permed, dyed of whatever processed hair to the rest of the men in the or make other women
jealous.
___________________________

These comments seem to imply that a woman who does not wear a head covering is in open rebellion to God or that she is not willing to submit herself to headship of her family or to the Lord. That bothers me because I know many woman who love the Lord dearly and their husbands, that have a very humble heart and have a true desire to submit to the headship(husband/fathers) in their home. The Word tells us over and over again that God looks at the heart of the matter. IF the desire of my heart is for Jesus and daily my eyes and heart are centered on Him that is what He looks at, not outward appearances. IF your wife feels led to wear a head covering then she should do so with her whole heart unto the Lord, but please do not imply that those of us who do not wear head coverings have less love or desire to follow Jesus daily and have Him be Lord of our life.

Have a wonderful day
God Bless
MJ

 2008/2/14 12:23Profile









 Re:

I find it so sad that some defiantly call obediance to Christs commands bondage and yet profess to be Christians. Is not the kingdom of God like a treasure buried in a field? Is not His yoke easy and His burden light? Does He not conform our hearts into a gentle loving obediance to His word?... The head covering bondage... God forbid.

I do not write this to oppose the brethren that are undecided on the matter, or do not yet see the beauty of the head covering... only to those who mock the word of God with their haughty attitude. To not have the conivction, or to have a modern understanding that the covering is her hair is one thing. To call the commands and treasures of God religous bondage and to degrade women or families who practice this in love for God (and using a haughty tone) is quite another and is quite satanic as watchmen nee will point here...

(We will all give account for every idle word typed on Sermon Index)

Watchmen Nee-

I often am amazed at this marvelous teaching that the sisters should have on their heads the sign of authority for the sake of the angels. We know the tragic history of how some of the angels sinned. Satan rebelled against God. Why? Because he desired to make himself equal with God. In other words, the angel Lucifer attempted to expose his own head before God and refused to submit to His authority. In Isaiah 14, Satan constantly reiterated, “I will.” “And thou saidst in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God and I will sit upon the mount of the congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High” (vv. 13-14). Right in this passage we see an archangel falling to become Satan. Revelation 12 further shows us that when Satan fell, one-third of the angelic force fell with him (Rev. 12:4). Why did the angels fall? Because of their not being subject to the authority of God the head but trying instead to expose their own heads

Today woman has a sign of authority on her head because of the angels, that is, as a testimony to the angels. Only the sisters in the church can testify to this, for the women of the world know nothing of it. Today when the sisters have the sign of authority on their heads, they bear the testimony that, “I have covered my head so that I do not have my own head, for I do not seek to be head. My head is veiled and I have accepted man as head, and to accept man as head means that I have accepted Christ as head and God as head. But some of you angels have rebelled against God.” This is what is meant by “because of the angels.”

I have on my head a sign of authority. I am a woman with my head covered. This is a most excellent testimony to the angels, to the fallen and to the unfallen ones. No wonder Satan persistently opposes the matter of head covering. It really puts him to shame. We are doing what he has failed to do. What God did not receive from the angels, He now has from the church. Because some of the angels do not submit themselves to the authority of God and of His Christ, the world is subject to great confusion. The fall of Satan has caused much more trouble than the fall of man. But, thank God, what He failed to get from the fallen angels, He has obtained from the church.

When many of the sisters in the church take the place given to woman and learn to cover their heads, they send out an unspoken word of testimony to the angels in the air, to the effect that God has obtained in the church what He desires. Because of this, woman must have on her head a sign of authority, a testimony to the angels.

taken from [url=http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/neeonheadcovering.htm]http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/neeonheadcovering.htm[/url]

In Christ - Jim

 2008/2/14 12:38
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:

davym wrote:


But is this bondage?

Is it not just guidance as to how to make the assembly of God's people more orderly i.e. reflecting God's order (headship).





Headship

1Pet 3:1 In like manner, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, even if any obey not the word, they may without the word be gained by the behavior of their wives.

This is speaking about headship do you agree?

1Pet 3:2 beholding your chaste behavior coupled with fear.Or manner of life verse

1Pet 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel;

Peter talks about headship and says let it not be a outward adorning. So if not a outward sign of submission to headship what?

1Pet 3:4 but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

A adorning of the hidden man of the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit.

So Peter tells you very plainly that inregard to Husband and Wives it is a inward adorning not a outward one that a wife should put on.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified?

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn from you. Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? .Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

Did you recieve Jesus by faith or by the law.

Why are you so foolish are know perfected in the Flesh!

You have been bewitched and you are under a spell doing a thing which does not need to be done. The only way you'll ever see is when your eyes are open.

I was blind and know I see, I was deaf but know I hear. I hope that will be your testimony one day.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/14 12:47Profile





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