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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : We need to cover head covering

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 Re:

Quote:
Some clearly think it is a commandment



In this case... some are mistaken.

[b]1 Corinthians 11:15[/b] [i]But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.[/i]

I dont know how much more clear Paul could have been.

And if this isnt clear enough, Paul makes it clear that in the churches he is associated with, they did not exercise this "custom". (Notice he says "custom", and not "commandment")

[b]1 Corinthians 11:16[/b] [i]But if any man seem to be contentious, [b]WE HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOM[/b], neither the churches of God.[/i]

There is simply no other way to interpret this... yes, a woman should have a covering, and yes God has provided one for her... her long hair. Period.

Ever wonder why only a very very small percentage of women are naturally bald? What do they call baldness in men? Male pattern baldness. Yes, women lose their hair as a result of radiation during cancer treatment, but what do they naturally desire to do? Cover it with a hat or a wig. Thats a God given desire.

Men go bald and no one thinks it's wierd. Yes, some try to cover it up... but thats another issue. For the most part tho, it's not a big deal to anyone when they see a bald man.

Bruce Willis shaves his head and no one cares... Brittany Spears shaves her head and the media had a field day with it for a month.

It's a natural thing in us designed by our Creator.

God [b]gave[/b] woman a natural covering.

Krispy

 2008/2/13 10:50









 Re:

Quote:
"Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you." 1 Cor 11:2

Quote:
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

By the way, why would Paul put mill stones around people's necks knowing full well that Christ abolished the law contained in ordinances?
Quote:
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

:-?

 2008/2/13 12:00
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Krispy,

If the normal hair was the women's covering then the whole passage would be pointless.
It is as if I command someone to use his legs to walk or to open his mouth when speaking.

Following your logic the man then would be violating God's command when he prays wearing his normal hair and only bald men obey God when praying. And again, the only command here is for the women not to shave her head.

You have to come with something more logical than this to convince me.

Philip

 2008/2/13 12:16Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Krispy wrote,

Quote:
"There is simply no other way to interpret this... yes, a woman should have a covering, and yes God has provided one for her... her long hair. Period."


Read Nee's article, he has another way and (to me) it seems more consistent with the text.

[url=http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/neeonheadcovering.htm]Nee on Head Coverings[/url]

Maybe skip down to the head covering sub title?

Here's an excerpt...

----
God is Himself the head; He sets up Christ as head; and He further makes man to be head. These are the three great principles in God’s government.

For God to be Christ’s head does not touch upon the matter of who is greater; rather, it is simply an arrangement in the government of God. Likewise, under God’s government Christ is the head of every man, and man is the head of woman. Such are God’s arrangements; such are His appointments.

Philippians 2 is clear enough: the Lord Jesus in His eternal essence is equal with God; but in God’s government He became Christ, and as Christ, God became His head. Christ Himself acknowledges in the Gospel of John that: “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner” (5:19); “For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me” (6:38); “I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you: howbeit he that sent me is true; and the things which I heard from him, these speak I unto the world” (8:26); and “I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things” (8:28). Today Christ takes His place in the government of God. According to God’s counsel, He is Christ and as Christ He needs to listen to God. God the Son has no need to listen to God the Father, for God the Father and God the Son are equal in honor and glory in the Godhead. But, in God’s government Christ does not stand in the place of God the Son; rather, He stands in the position of Christ, the One sent of God.

Some day the whole world will know that Christ is the head of all men, for this is God’s governmental decision. Today this is known only in the church; the world has no knowledge of it. But the day will come when all the people of the world will realize that Christ is the head. He will have the preeminence in all the creation. He is the firstborn of all creation and the firstfruit. Everyone must be in subjection to the authority of Christ. Likewise, God’s appointment of man as head of woman is also known only in the church today. Do you get the point? Today the church alone knows that Christ is the head of man and that man is the head of woman.

We have already seen how grace can never overthrow God’s government. I trust our lesson will become clearer as we learn that grace is to support God’s government, not to destroy it. How can anyone be so foolish as to attempt to use grace to interfere with God’s government? The government of God is inviolable; His hand always sustains it. No one, just because he has believed in the Lord, can overthrow the Father’s authority, or even undermine the authority of any government. We must not say that because we are Christians we do not need to pay taxes. No, nothing of the sort! The better Christian you are, the more you will maintain the government of God.

We are here today to maintain God’s testimony in the world. God has shown us that there are three different heads: God is head, Christ is head, and man is head. This is not a matter of being brothers and sisters; it is basically a governmental arrangement. Grace is concerned with brothers and sisters, but government is different. God has sovereignly willed that the head of Christ is God Himself, so Christ must obey; the head of man is Christ, so man must obey; and the head of woman is man, and so woman should have the sign of obedience on her head.


“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head; for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven” (1 Cor. 11:4-5).

The meaning of head covering is: I submit myself to God’s government; I accept God’s appointed position; I dare not nullify His government by the grace I have received; I do not even dare to think about it; on the contrary, I accept God’s government. As Christ accepts God as His head, so should every man accept Christ as his head. Likewise, woman should representatively accept man as her head. In covering the head, the woman signifies that she is not head, that she is as if she has no head—for it is covered.

Let us remember that although in practice it is only the woman who has her head covered, yet, in reality, Christ has His head covered before God and every man has his head covered before Christ. Why, then, is it that God only requires woman to have the practice of having her head covered? This indeed is marvelous, for it involves a very deep principle.

I often feel that it is impossible to talk with some brothers and sisters about head covering because they have no knowledge of God’s government. Before anyone can understand head covering, he or she must first know God’s government. The whole question is settled once one sees that Christ has His head covered before God. How much more ought I to cover my head before Him! I must cover it so that it is no longer seen or exposed, for God is my head. As a matter of fact, everyone’s head must be covered before God. Since Christ is my head, I cannot have my own head seen or exposed.

Here I would like to tell Christian women that God has appointed man to be woman’s head. In these days when God’s authority is unknown in the world, the Lord demands this order only in the church. It therefore affects the very fact of our being Christians. God requires us in the church to accept what He has appointed governmentally.

 2008/2/13 13:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Following your logic the man then would be violating God's command when he prays wearing his normal hair and only bald men obey God when praying. And again, the only command here is for the women not to shave her head.



Paul addressed that in the same passage of scripture when he discussed long hair on a man.

Quote:
You have to come with something more logical than this to convince me.



Sorry bro... scripture is all I got. If you're looking for something more than scripture, pass me by.

Krispy

 2008/2/13 13:34
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 326


 Re:


[i]But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering[/i]
[i]1 Cor 11:15[/i]

It is too convenient to take this verse as an excuse for annulling all the previous teaching on the need for a woman to wear a covering on her head when she prays or prophesies. This 'covering' can't be the same 'covering' under discussion in the previous verses.

After a little study I've discovered that Paul uses a different word altogether here from the ones he has used elsewhere in the chapter. He uses the word [i]peribolaion[/i]. It denotes something thrown around someone. It is a composite word made up of [i]peri (around)[/i] and [i]ballo (to throw)[/i]. The thought behind the word is that a woman's long hair is a mantle, a wrapper, provided by nature for a woman's covering. Her hair, indeed, is her glory. Many women. indeed, know how to make the most of it and use it to advantage to catch the eye and excite the admiration (or envy) of others. As long hair on a man is a shame to him, so long hair on a woman is a glory to her.

This only adds weight to Paul's previous ruling. The woman, when she prays or prophesies, [b]must put another covering over this natural covering.[/b] When she stands up to participate in worship she must not draw attention to herself. She must not put her hair on display. That would draw attention away from her words to her person. Her glorious, natural covering must be veiled. Only in this way can she honorably participate in audible public worship. The man, then, is to have short hair, the woman is to have long hair. The man is to participate in public worship with his head uncovered, the woman is to participate in public worship with her head covered. The man, with his head uncovered, acknowledges the headship of Christ. The woman, with her head covered, acknowledges the headship of the man.


_________________
David

 2008/2/13 14:42Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Some have asked me about an article from Zac Poonen about this subject. Here is one that touches on the subject.

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/articles.php?display=article24

Philip

 2008/2/13 19:07Profile









 Re:

Is Paul God? If we were to list all the things that Paul had listed for do's and don't's it would make the law look like a student instead of a school master.

MODERATION, MODERATION, MODERATION.

 2008/2/13 20:27
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I found this on a related site:

Myth #5: Paul is the one who gave this command (rather than God)

This myth attacks directly at the inspiration of Scripture. This myth is often cloaked in terms like: "what Paul was saying was", "Paul was writing to address…" It makes commands in the Bible into doctrines of men. God, not Paul, is the author of 1 Corinthians. Paul was only the secretary, not the author of 1 Corinthians. The Holy Spirit told Paul what to write. Paul did not write on his own authority. "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 14:37). There is no basis historically or otherwise to say that Paul gave this command rather than God.

 2008/2/14 1:04Profile









 Re:

I'm a female. Someone asked where we were on this thread.

I have more of a question then comments.

The verse is talking about when the Church is gathered, right ?

And then says, every woman praying or prophesying.

My question is, how many of those who have posted on this thread so far, allow a women to pray out loud or prophesy during your 'services' or meetings?

It [i]appears[/i] that those are the only two times that she must wear the covering, from the passage.

 2008/2/14 1:19





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