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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The law

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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Philippians 3:17-19 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Enemies of the Cross; For many walk, etc - The Judaizing teachers continue to preach as did James in Jerusalem; Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. These wish to incorporate circumcision, and other ordinances of the law, with the Gospel.

They are the enemies of the cross of Christ, that Paul says that is all he wants to preach, "Christ and Him Crucified". They rather attribute justification to the Levitical sacrifices, than to the sacrificial death of Christ; and thus they are enemies to that cross.
That keep the 10 commandments and all the ordnances in the Torah, Which Christ has fulfilled and taken away and made all thing New in His covenant of The Blood of the Cross.

Argue the old all you want, it has no salvation as we know it in any keeping of the Law. Historically it is the Word of God and explains what God's Plan from before the foundation of the World was to be. Jhn 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Let us follow Paul as he follows Christ, It is for His Sake that Paul was apprehended on the Road for Christ to reveal Himself in Paul and Paul to make it clear to us and fulfill the Word of God, that we have Christ in us also.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/2/11 1:23Profile

Joined: 2007/10/13
Posts: 41


Already wonderful posts!

Just would add that the law is now written on our hearts.

Jesus said "You have heard.........Thou shalt not kill."

"But I say............Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, or shall say to his brother "Raca"(feel contempt towards him), or you fool (condemns him, he is beyond salvation or redemtion) , shall be in danger of hell fire."

Jesus was establishing a greater righteousness than the law on stone tablets.

Murder begins with anger in your heart! We have sinned when we slay our brother in our heart.

Adultery begins with lust. We have sinned when we have committed adultery in our heart.

Not when we acted upon it in the physical. It is about what is in our heart. That is where judgment now begins.

Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharasees.
It is now the inward work of God in us.

In His great love,
Learn of Me for I am meek and lowly of heart........


 2008/2/11 8:14Profile


Lowly, Very well put. I agree.

The 'law' (read: instructions, statutes, commandments) has now by the renewed covenant been written on the hearts of those who love Him, as it was promised.

However, not one jot or tittle will disappear from His instructions, statutes and commandments. They will now be written on our hearts with the indwelling Spirit giving the perfect interpretation.

Yeshua said: 'You have heard it said... But I say to you... " This flew in the face of the scribes and pharisees who had made their own interpretation of the scriptures, seeking to add burdens to the backs of men. God's word does not bring bondage, but freedom and liberty ... that is why James calls it the royal law of liberty.

It certainly does not sound to me as if the Torah has been abolished. The penalty or curse has been nailed to the cross. However, to call the instructions and statutes of God a 'curse' is unthinkable. Paul says very clearly that he upholds the law of God.

[b]Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.[/b]

Thanks for your insights.

 2008/2/11 8:56


Strider, with due respect, pulling one verse again out of context is what is causing all this confusion here.

The law was our "school master" to lead us to Christ.

If we walk in The Spirit - we will be walking as He did. But if we follow the law - as the written law, by the letter of the law, we've missed the whole purpose of Christ sending His Spirit to indwell us. That is the danger that those in Galatia faced and why Paul had to write so very much in Romans, etc, against this confusion that some were trying to bring into the Church.

You see it as either "greasy grace" or Torah keeping.
There is an inbetween - a new Living Way.

That is why I posted whole chpt.s and those were just the Few that I wanted to - until I checked your profile and saw that you are a male.

But just as an appeal, having "been there" before with those who are suddenly Messianic and could claim being Jewish myself, please don't pull Scriptures with us - it only hurts the Body and brings the same dissention that Paul faced on a regular basis.

There are different sects of Messianic - I, for a time, thought I'd go that way years ago - but I felt it pulled me from the rest of the Body - as if they had "one up" on those who don't use His Name in the English/Hebrew varieties they've chosen - which aren't really 'Jewish' anyway - etc.. Nothing that seperates His Body should be used to make any group above another IN Christ.

If I may - may I ask are you in the branch that believes JESUS is GOD?

As you know, there are different Messianic sects. Some have thrown out Paul altogether - some are trying to bring us back under the law - some do not feel that JESUS is GOD - so just to get to know your points better - it would help us to know.
Maybe giving a website you like best or things like that, helps us to get to know each other better sometimes.

Thank you for your considerations.


 2008/2/11 11:20


He Reigns,

You may notice that I have not replied to any of your posts. I request that you do not ask me any more personal questions about my belief. Please keep your questions to the topic at hand.

If you feel the need to enquire on a personal level, feel free to use my email which is available to all.

You will note that the rules of the board allow for differing viewpoints and to take part in discussion thereof without this type of inquisition.

Thankyou Kindly

 2008/2/11 11:58

Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA


Romans 16:17 - 20 (NKJV) 17Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil. 20And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Titus 3:9 - 11 (ESV) 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and [u]]quarrels about the law,[/u] for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
] :-o

Clint Thornton

 2008/2/11 12:23Profile

Joined: 2007/10/13
Posts: 41


"Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets, I have not come to abolish but to fulfill."

Jesus accomplished what the law could not, He has reconciled us back to the Father, He is our Peace, He is our righteousness.

Many have already stated the purpose of the law.

Paul was saying that if you choose to follow the law and put yourself under it, you will continue to be judged by the law. You will continue to be subject to it, and it will continue to produce sin and death.

So the law is still in affect for those who choose to live by it.

However, Paul was saying God Forbid, that we who are now free from the law would be liars, murderers, adulterers, full of covetousness, bearing false witness against our brothers etc.

Now, because of grace and the Spirit of Life working in us we are being perfected.

I would like to bring up Ephesians 2, the great mystery of "the one new man"

"For Christ is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us; HAVING ABOLISHISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY, EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in Himself of two one new man, so making peace;

And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"

In His great love,
Learn of Me for I am meek and lowly of heart..........

 2008/2/11 13:11Profile


Hi everyone

YOu might be interested on a thread I just posted in this section. It is very relevant to this subject

in Him


 2008/2/11 13:50

Joined: 2008/1/27
Posts: 18


broclint Although there has been much said on this post, let me state the purpose.The Law is good, no were not saved by it not even kept by it were kept by Christ alone but we know sin is lawlessness.I don't like to waste time so I agree with the word you posted I need not to change anyones veiw on the law only Christ can do that. 2Tim.2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.And let every one that nameth the name of Christ
depart from iniquity.

God Bless


 2008/2/11 19:18Profile



Edited out. Unnecessary, doesn't add anything

 2008/2/11 20:00

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