I am making a copy of the KJV, and eliminating Paul's epistles, just so I can do the searches I need to do, without Paul muddying the waters with his brilliance, education, and experience.
I rather doubt that we are to take Jesus' message from Paul alone, and the Christian Church has a nasty habit of doing just that.
I am so well taught in Paul I cannot come up with the answers myself.
There is one who will give you all the answers you need, and he comes secretly, in dazzling light, through the backdoor of your mind.
Paul Frederick West
| 2008/1/15 4:57||Profile|
| Re: Who Anointed Paul???|
Doesn't Paul have the Lord's comendation in Acts 9:15
[b][color=660000]...for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [/color][/b]
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2008/1/15 5:23||Profile|
| God (Jesus Christ) called Paul|
Paul preached a message that not even the 11 Apostles truly understood
Joh 1:16 For we have all received grace after grace from His fullness.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The early Jew understood grace, it was the gentiles who knew nothing of its meaning.
Yet Paul made a lot of rules for Gentiles to live by. Was that his job? In converting the Gentiles, was he to also tell them how to live?
Paul had the task to teach the early christian gentile church that we call ethics. That's the rules you see him put down. Every jew would have known these from thier youth and it would have already been assumed that one would do them, that's all.
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
It's unclear here what exactly Peter was referring to, but you have to include the whole of scripture, by the context there were some who took the "text" out of the "context" and made some grave mistakes in thier understanding, thats all.
And can an Apostle be humanly wrong, and still have a true message?
No. On the numerical value of the scripture it is flawless, perfect, I heard Chuck Missler talk on this and the probably of the NT and the OT being numerically flawless is over one in a billion billion.
| 2008/1/15 8:30||Profile|
Jesus also stated that there would be more teachings to come via the Holy Ghost:-
Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot, bear them now.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever, he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
| 2008/1/15 9:28||Profile|
| Re: God (Jesus Christ) called Paul|
My Dear Brothers / Sisters,
(2 Ti 3:16) our Dear brother Paul says`ALL
SCRIPTURE was GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD and
is profitable for: doctrine, for reproof,for correction, for instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS,
(vs.17)That the man of God (the man of who?)
...may be perfect,[throughly] furnished unto>>>
..ALL good works.
Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God.
Paul continued to preach the gospel of the kingdom and the princibles of that kingdom.
The Kingdom of God ,is a place where a King ( who is Jesus rules and is Lord.
He comes to us by way of the Spirit (Holy Ghost)
to be led by His Spirit ( `for as many as are led by the Spirit of God THEY ARE the sons/children of God.).. in the way that we should go.( He does the works through the Spirit.
Phil.1:17..Paul says `I am set for the defence of the gospel'
Yes Paul preached grace.but please consiter :
Grace is: the Devine inflence upon the heart and it reflection IN the life.It is God drawing us to Himself ,to die out to self and to live unto >>> HIM.(the Spirit that drawed us in the begining.
thank you, and ,
much love IN HIM,
| 2008/1/15 9:51|
Some attribute Heb. to Paul[author]. This is one of my favorites.
I cant Imagine being without Paul's important contributions.
Could all this be pride?
By pride I mean that feeling one gets when a pet doctrine gets demolished by scripture!
Had this happen many times to myself.
The word will "jerk you strait" but the word without the spirit is death.
| 2008/1/15 10:25||Profile|
Just to help explain.
Whoa! I didn't say that the other Apostles didn't grasp Paul's gospel of faith...because it is Jesus' gospel of faith, and they were well versed in that gospel. But the original 11 Apostles did not write about Jesus, or His gospel in the way that Paul did, nor do they seem to wish to dispute him from what survives of their written works.
But you started with...
Paul preached a message that not even the 11 Apostles truly understood. Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. It is the heart of Christianity.
...Did Paul overstep his bounds? For there are conflicts in what Paul said that conflict with what the other Apostles said, and even what Jesus said.
I apologize if I am misreading this. certainly your 'inherently true but not inn-errantly true' position only amplifies my concern of your statement about Paul.
Regarding my comments about being tired; you unfortunately caught the sum of it. That is not fair to you. Without you knowing it, I perceived your critique of scripture as part of a trend around here.
In the past few weeks we have had to repave basic roads such as the authority of scripture, and to know the difference between spirit-led faith in the presuppositions of scripture, and superstitious faith in a god as we imagine him to be. Some of us even feel our thoughts are God's thoughts, and equal with scripture in their ability to inform us regarding life's moral and spiritual choices. From that self-referencing platform the forum here is deluged with an unedifying buffet of sophistry ranging from reckless accusations towards calvinists and arminians, treasonist propaganda posing as spiritual discernment, self-styled doctrines of dreams, and a general high mindedness against the testimony of scripture, not to mention a low-mindedness towards one another.
What have we come to SI for? From every tribe and nation, to be built up in our common faith in the light of God's Word. Instead we have to wear raincoats because there are so many damnable agendas soaking up our thoughts in here.
I'm starting to think we don't come here to be built up and to build up, but for stimulation. We don't want any of the questions we ask really settled. Our flesh likes the ambiguity of dreams and personal feelings...answers would force us to decide, to be accountable for our choices and plans. This is why the natural man is attracted to ambiguity and not objective truth.
I suppose it's not the fault of anyone per se.
I accept much of it is my own.
| 2008/1/15 11:37||Profile|
hello and Praise the Lord,
Hi Compton, I was speaking on this wise about 6 months ago, and u and many ripped me bcuz i was being too spiritual or i needed not judge or to lighten up....
I only brought that up to enforce how much neverthess i agree with u to the utmost, but this is exactly what i was stating 6 or so months ago...
Furthermore, we all here at SI need to change our minds about how we deal with one another with our so-called knowledge and wisdom. We all think bcuz we have had experience with Christ that we know something or we have a different word than anyone else does bcuz "this is how Christ deals with me or u", but we need a thorough cleaning like David had in Psalm 51,
We also need to all read and pay close attention to that sermon posted here by T. austin-sparks, "truth on the inward parts"...
We have somewhat bcom filled with a type of bloodguiltiness. Many if not almost all of u think this is a forum to challenge, or vent on or to others about our personal valor and accomplishments, not in Christ, but in ourselves..
It might even sound like i am venting, and in a way I am, but if we could all see how disgusting we get bcuz we r.......
Peace & Love
| 2008/1/15 13:06|
I doubt Paul will consider it any great personal loss if some one else abandons him. He lost His friends and all his religion when he met Jesus. All the members of the churches he established abandoned him and he was crucified with out anything but God for his love of God and the body of Christ.
| 2008/1/15 18:56||Profile|
Who anointed Paul???"
Acts 9:15-16 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Paul is called chosen because Christ had selected him, as he did his other apostles, for their service.
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Ephesians 3:7-8 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
crsschk, are you saying that Pauls Gospel is the same as the old testament gospel? If so, why was it necessary for Jesus Christ to set him apart and teach Paul this particular Gospel of Grace through Faith being born again of Incorruptable Seed of God of the Father? If Paul had this Gospel from the old testament why did Jesus Christ have to reveal it to Paul?
Paul's gospel is completely different from the Gospel of Moses and even The Gospel of Jesus Christ offered to the House of Israel, who were His own and they received Him not. Paul went to them first and they would not hear or see, then he was sent to the Gentile who would hear.
Acts 28:23-29 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
That is why God gave Paul permission to call the revelation given to him as "My Gospel".
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jesus was the seed of David by Mary, but He was raised according to Paul's Gospel, Not anyone else until it was given to Paul and he revealed it to the world.
That we might separate the old from the new, praise God.
Old things have passed away and behold all things have become new.
Separating the Soul from the spirit of Satan, and given a new Spirit of Christ in you. The Holy Spirit now in us not just with us. This is completely different from the old testament.
This will probably cause a great gulf and explosion in the body, but I don't see anyone born again in the old testament. I don't see Christ in anyone "the hope of Glory". I see Paul fighting his whole ministry given him by Jesus Christ to present this Gospel and reveal The new way of salvation. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.
Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:5-13 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Did they have His rest? Do we have His rest?
2 Timothy 2:8-26 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Sorry but I had to ask.
In Christ: Phillip
| 2008/1/17 15:13||Profile|