Poster | Thread | ChrisJD Member
Joined: 2006/2/11 Posts: 2895 Philadelphia PA
| Re: | | Katy-Did,
"Although Discernment is a Gift, it's also a gift to all according to Hebrews 5:14."
But the gift mentioned in 1Co 12:10 is [i]discerning of spirits[/i] and the passage in hebrews says [i]discerning between good and evil[/i].
The gift in Corinthians is called a gift of the Spirit, but the discernment in Hebrews is said to be through the [i]senses[/i].
Vincent's Word Studies says of this word in the entry for this passage,
Their senses (τὰ αἰσθητήρια) N.T.o. Organs of perception; perceptive faculties of the mind. In lxx see Jer_4:19; 4 Macc. 2:22.
Chris _________________ Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| 2008/3/3 19:46 | Profile |
| Re: | | Chris, to your last post I did find this in Matthew 23..I thought was appropriate to my 2 posts ago.
Matthew 23:13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Interesting HUH?
But to this last reply, that is interesting.
I would say however as we grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ we are being transformed from Glory to Glory, By the Lord, through the renewing of our mind. Our Mind and our Heart are one in the same in this instance.
Our senses are made NEW In Christ, everything tastes, and feels, and looks and smells so completely New and Different when we are Born Again. THIS is the Gift of Christ in you!
Maybe this is that sweet savour Paul speaks of!
Katy PA Added for content:
2 Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the [u]savour[/u] of his knowledge by us in every place.
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| 2008/3/3 19:55 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
HE_Reigns wrote: About Paul ~
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Don't confuse "judging" righteous judgment - "discernment" - with "judging" that comes from a bad heart's motives.
The scripture you gave has to do with the discerning of spirits.
Like I said:
"Discernment is a gift.
1 Corinthians 12:10 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits;
Also it has nothing to do with judging the person but the spirit which they are operating under."
Were talking about "judging justly" right? That is the topic of the discussion. The discerning of spirits is a gift and yes, it can be for anyone.
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| 2008/3/3 20:04 | | ChrisJD Member
Joined: 2006/2/11 Posts: 2895 Philadelphia PA
| Re: | | Hi Katy-did,
About the passage from Matthew, sure, I didn't mean to disagree with what you were saying there before, yet it seems the Lord did prounounce judgments also. But I think He said He could do this, because God was with Him, and He wasn't making these judgments on His own.
Chris _________________ Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| 2008/3/3 20:05 | Profile |
| Re: | | Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
We may or may not be talking about the same thing here.
There will be an appointed day in which He will Judge the World, and I believe that Judgement is for rejecting Jesus Christ, as this scripture continues to say He has given ALL men assurance that God raised Him from the dead.
There will be the Judgement seat of Christ for believers, and the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the age.
Men today have judged themselves or condemned themselves to eternal damnation...as John 3:18 Whosoever does not believe is condemned all ready [u][b]because [/b][/u]he did not believe in the Only Begotten Son.
And Yes, Jesus was stating this fact in your original post as I do believe this is what the conversation was to begin with. The Jews did not believe Jesus was the Son of God.
Remember when Paul first got saved? What was the first thing he did.....he went into the Temple and Proclaimed Jesus was the SON OF GOD!!!
Katy
PS Added for content:
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the [u][i][b]Son of God[/b][/i][/u]?
Acts 9:19-21
19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the [u][i][b]Son of God.[/b][/i][/u]
21But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
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| 2008/3/3 20:24 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
Heismypeace wrote:
Quote:
HE_Reigns wrote: About Paul ~
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Don't confuse "judging" righteous judgment - "discernment" - with "judging" that comes from a bad heart's motives.
The scripture you gave has to do with the discerning of spirits.
Like I said:
"Discernment is a gift.
1 Corinthians 12:10 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits;
Also it has nothing to do with judging the person but the spirit which they are operating under."
Were talking about "judging justly" right? That is the topic of the discussion. The discerning of spirits is a gift and yes, it can be for anyone.
Rebecca, I can't say I agree with your thinking that those two instances with Paul were just "the gift of discerning of spirits".
It gives the background of both people, besides their 'actions'.
Again - 'spiritual discernment' is our ONLY means of "judging" [i]anything[/i].
As I posted - that comes Only be being filled with His Word and His Spirit.
I was not bringing up the "gift of discernment" but "discerning right from wrong and how to judge it".
You can look at the verse that Katy posted to understand how it takes "spiritual" discernment to "judge righteous judgment".
The verse from Katy's post - Heb 5:14 [b] "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even [i]those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.[/i]"[/b]
And again - the same discernment of HIS sheep -
[i]Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. [/i]
By His Word and His Spirit Only.
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| 2008/3/3 20:29 | |
| Re: | | Quote:
HE_Reigns wrote:
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Don't confuse "judging" righteous judgment - "discernment" - with "judging" that comes from a bad heart's motives.
Rebecca, I can't say I agree with your thinking that those two instances with Paul were just "the gift of discerning of spirits".
Actually you have two things going on here in these verses, the gift if discernment and a word of knowledge.
#1 Word of knowledge-
"Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
#2 The discerning of spirits-
"Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."
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| 2008/3/3 20:42 | | ChrisJD Member
Joined: 2006/2/11 Posts: 2895 Philadelphia PA
| Re: no guessing | | Hi Katy-Did,
"We may or may not be talking about the same thing here."
I think we are talking about different things.
[b][color=660000] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [/color][/b]
- John 5:30
The context of the passage in John 8 is that the Lord Jesus was asked to make a jugdment about the woman taken in adultery. The Law demanded that she be put to death. And so they sought to catch Him, to see if He would judge unjustly.
After this, and after being accused of falsely testifying of Himself, He told them,
[b][color=660000]Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. [/color][/b]
They judged out of their own knowledge.
He did not judge anyone [b]of Himself[/b].
But,
[b][color=660000] And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. [/color][/b]
So, when He did make judgements, whether as to the character of someone,
[b][color=660000] Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile![/color][/b]
as of Nathaniel,
or
[b][color=660000]Ye fools and blind[/color][/b]
as of the scribes and pharisees
He did it, not according to human knowledge, but,
[b][color=660000]I speak that which I have seen with my Father...[/color][/b]
This is in contrast with people guessing, or stating as fact what they think they know, about events from history, or current events, or about others.
[b][color=660000] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [/color][/b]
- John 5:30 _________________ Christopher Joel Dandrow
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| 2008/3/3 20:56 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
Heismypeace wrote:
Quote:
HE_Reigns wrote:
Act 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
Don't confuse "judging" righteous judgment - "discernment" - with "judging" that comes from a bad heart's motives.
Rebecca, I can't say I agree with your thinking that those two instances with Paul were just "the gift of discerning of spirits".
Quote:
Rebecca wrote:
Actually you have two things going on here in these verses, the gift if discernment and a word of knowledge.
#1 Word of knowledge-
"Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
#2 The discerning of spirits-
"Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation. Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour."
By pulling verses, you can make it say whatever you want to see and not see what it is you don't want to see.
It didn't take the "word of knowledge" to discern this action - Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
Nor for any Sheep 'who won't follow a stranger' to not discern the pestering voice of that woman.
Many of His Saints have had similar creepy feelings after being followed around for "many days" and haven't needed to attribute those feelings to the 1 Corth 12 gifts, but only to the John 10 verses given and having His Word hid in their heart and "by reason of use ........."
Good nite for now.
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| 2008/3/3 20:58 | |
| Re: | | Now we have another where the Word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
And here another
Ecclesiastes 8:5
Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: [u]and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.[/u]
So, one must read many many scriptures in order to Let God out of the box we so often put Him in.
What is the most important issue here?
To me it is:
Does the Word of God pierce your heart?
Is your heart wise enough in Christ to be able to discern the signs of the times?
Are you growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ, Maturing and able to cut and eat your own meat? Or does someone else still have to do that for you?
When the enemy comes along and tries to hoodwink you, can you discern truth from error?
Katy
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| 2008/3/3 20:59 | |
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